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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Question on preparation for UK police visit regarding kratom

I'm not a tech expert, but what incriminating stuff on your computer can't be deleted? I'm aware that deleted files are potentially recoverable... not sure about emails or browser history. Worth doing at least I would have thought
 
I'm in the UK and can assure you that all they will do is seize it. The Psychoactive Substances Act should technically cover all manner of things from nutmeg to lighter fluid and the LASST thing they want to do is LOSE a court case. UK law is based on case law and as soon as they fail once, the entire thing fails.

I'm sure you only intended to buy a small sample to experiment with new fragrances of joss-stick or whatever. INTENT is required for anything which so obviously has manifold uses.

Quite soon RCs are coming back to the UK as prodrugs. Inactive compounds that upon refluxing in dH2O (boiling in water) for an hour will CONVERT to an active. Then what can they do? The compound as supplied is inactive...
 
AlsoTapered said:
I'm in the UK and can assure you that all they will do is seize it.
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I wouldn't be so sure tbh.

Chances are that they will not prosecute you for the Kratom due to the reasons AT has stated. If you incriminate yourself however then that could be a different story. They do so love an importation case, and the penalties are significantly higher than for a domestic purchase. I will say that I'm unclear regarding the status of kratom here in uk.

There is also a possibility that they will obtain a warrant and search your house. Make sure it's clean of anything illegal. Assume they will seize your computer/phone and act accordingly. They may or may not do that - nobody can give you a percentage chance. It's a possibility though. It can be random and there are hundreds of variables...where you live, if the pigs are busy or not, if they got laid recently and so on

It's truly unpredictable. I have heard of (true) cases where someone got a loveletter from Border Force (a seizure notice) for 50 ecstacy tablets and were never visited by police, and also of someone who got their house ransacked and devices seized for importing 7g cannabis, wtf. 100% true. Go figure.

Do not talk to the police apart from giving name etc without a solicitor meeting. Whatever the pigs tell you, there is nothing to be gained from talking to them.

Never order anything illegal from abroad again unless you can use a drop unconnected to yourself. Fuck ordering anyhting from abroad, just too stressful for me.

Loose lips sink ships. Good luck (chances are you'll be ok but who knows. Use it as a learning experience though for sure)
 
AlsoTapered said:
I'm in the UK and can assure you that all they will do is seize it. The Psychoactive Substances Act should technically cover all manner of things from nutmeg to lighter fluid and the LASST thing they want to do is LOSE a court case. UK law is based on case law and as soon as they fail once, the entire thing fails.

I'm sure you only intended to buy a small sample to experiment with new fragrances of joss-stick or whatever. INTENT is required for anything which so obviously has manifold uses.

Quite soon RCs are coming back to the UK as prodrugs. Inactive compounds that upon refluxing in dH2O (boiling in water) for an hour will CONVERT to an active. Then what can they do? The compound as supplied is inactive...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be so sure - like partyfiend says - the cops might want an easy bust, they might want to impress border controls, they might see themselves as anti-drug warriors. They might even see themselves as Oliver Cromwell in a fight against low morals.

And finding a lawyer with the knowledge or interest to challenge the police on drug laws is practically impossible. I was telling my lawyer that dried cactus was legal and he just said "The police say it's illegal and that's that".
 
If OP would share his/her postal code and a bit more details we would be able to predict outcome with much, much more accuracy...
So 2kg bust is enough to make it to the local news. And I bet they hope that in raid they’ll find enough for national news.
Could giving advices how to minimize chance of problems (even tho they should be common sense) fall under obstruction of justice or something? I’m not accustomed with UK law.
 
I remember the police raided a few members on here for 2Ci and other research chemicals once in a large coordinated exercise.
 
As previously stated, the UK Psychoactive Substances Act (2016) covers anything that is 'psychoactive' so as I previously said - nutmeg which is KNOWN to be psychoactive would technically be covered, but I note it's still on sale in every supermarket. So kratom would mean that the CPS would have to prove that it's psychoactive... and that depends on a person admitting they intended to use it as such.

Also the law exempts 'traditional herbal medicines' specifically. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but kratom has been used as such in Thailand for thousands of years.

So seizure is all they can do. That means a buyer has to take THEM to court and nobody is going to do THAT.

But as soon as RC makers realize they can sell an inactive compound that has a protecting group, a protecting group removed by boiling in water for 1 hour, that makes the person buying the producer... and THEN they face a HUGE problem because someone has identified a non-toxic protecting group that applies to anything with a basic amine function... which is about 99% of RCs. So we will be back to having to list precursors one by one and even then, are they able to imprison everyone who buys a gram of 4MMC BOC/Cbz or whatever? It makes the act useless.
 
Forgot who was dude with an idea of “methspreso” for UK. I think one of biggest or first who provided mephedrone in UK, wonder what or who stopped his idea seeing daylight.
 
AlsoTapered said:
As previously stated, the UK Psychoactive Substances Act (2016) covers anything that is 'psychoactive' so as I previously said - nutmeg which is KNOWN to be psychoactive would technically be covered, but I note it's still on sale in every supermarket. So kratom would mean that the CPS would have to prove that it's psychoactive... and that depends on a person admitting they intended to use it as such.
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Yeah but the problem is he's imported it.
 
Jackal said:
Packages get stuck all the time.

Don't fret it

Use an assumed name in future
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Not sure about the assumed name - someone said being caught with a package in another name would give the woodentops the chance to say "oh so youre supplying it to someone else are you?
 
SpiralusSancti said:
Forgot who was dude with an idea of “methspreso” for UK. I think one of biggest or first who provided mephedrone in UK, wonder what or who stopped his idea seeing daylight.
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Clearly you cannot be BASED in the UK, their were few enough RC suppliers in 2016 so that the police could send a nice, formal letter pointing out that the law was about to change and therefore they ad better STOP. Likewise, any UK based vendor of the protected RCs would be an obvious target. Presuming you have a good lawyer, the tactic is to repeatedly seize all materials and to hold them for 6 months. Now a smart supplier actually has several extra sets of stored materials so they are back in business the next day and always DO go to their legal council and get the stuff back but that eats profit.

Right now, some European nations look the best bet BUT I should add that none of them seem to be as organized, to respect the fact that they must presume seizures will happen in spite of them acting legally. So you end up with a bunch of shady middlemen who know nothing whatsoever about RCs and just buy whatever the Chinese sell.

Or they attempt REALLY sad ideas like 2,5-dimethoxy-4-bromo aminorex... which is something that anyone with experience of drug design would instantly conclude will not work. It's happening time and time again. They will not employ experts because they want all of the money themselves. If your business model is based on the presumption that it 'may all get seized' and therefore have to wash the money and go to dumb lengths, they REALLY over estimate how significant they are.
 
Nutmeg is a foodstuff which is why it's exempt from the PSA. Whatever Kratom is or isn't, the Powers that Be have decided it's psychoactive which is why they sometimes seize it at customs and send warning letters to addresses on the packages, but since Kratom isn't a controlled substance (yet anyway) it's apparently still legal to possess. Just don't order it from abroad.
 
Parra, Parra, Paradise...

Yeah - it might be an idea, that was just something someone said many years ago on a drug board. The other thing I'd wonder is if it was a big parcel that couldn't be posted so you had to go and collect it and show ID - what do you do when you have the ID for "Peter Stringfellow" and the address on the package is "Bill Stuntcock". Do you tell the post office guy "It's my way of getting drugs in..." so he lets you have it?
 
Please, just THROW THE DRUGS AWAY! There's no point wprrying about your phone and computer if you still have the drugs. :(
 
I do wish I had taken drug security more seriously when I ordered from America. The woodentops just had to open the freezer door and find the mushrooms and cacti. If they'd been under the floorboards I'dve been home free.
 
Forever Changes said:
Nutmeg is a foodstuff which is why it's exempt from the PSA. Whatever Kratom is or isn't, the Powers that Be have decided it's psychoactive which is why they sometimes seize it at customs and send warning letters to addresses on the packages, but since Kratom isn't a controlled substance (yet anyway) it's apparently still legal to possess. Just don't order it from abroad.
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The PSA doesn't once mention an exemption for foodstuffs. Maybe St. John's Wort is a simpler example. It clearly IS psychoactive (it's a prescription medicine in Germany, for example) BUT it is exempt in the UK as a 'traditional herbal medicine'. Very well, so is kratom, by that logic.

Mushrooms are illegal 'if processed' but picking is regarded as processing. As for cactii... well I know 5 people in the UK openly growing the cactii... it would take an expert to KNOW which ones are psychoactive.
 
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