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Question About Administering IV Heroin to an Opiate Naive Friend

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^ Exactly. That is the most important bit of information every drug user should be armed with. "You can always take more, but can never take less."
 
I get/got really good tar here in the midwest USA, and 1/4th of the balloon got me a rush and high as fuck. Don't be ridiculous people saying a whole bag is ok.
 
you should give him the rest of the bag you used first so you know exactly what he gets.
if you know what I mean?
like he had 1/6 of that bag so this time I'd say try a forth.
they say a bag of h is almost=to a 80mg of oxy.
My first time I did oxy did 20 mgs. . .so a forth!!!
SERIOUSLY!
You don't want to call 9-1-1 later and then the ambulance comes to late and your fiends up dieing of overdose and then it becomes manslutar!!!!
 
@6/7
You couldn't be more right. When I od'd, my wife and I each did the same dose(fentyl in the heroin) at the same time, with the same tolerance. I passed out and she kept going. She realized what was going on and made a conscious effort to stay awake. Which was good because later, she found me not breathing and was able to resuscitate me.

Also as for the bag, test it first. A 5/10 bag is definitely not like 80 mg of oxycodone. I can inject 2, 20mg OC
s and it will feel like a 5/10 bag. (Not rush-wise, but intoxication wise) But, supervise for awhile. Staying awake really does make a difference.
Have you done it yet?
 
lazylazyjoe said:
@6/7
You couldn't be more right. When I od'd, my wife and I each did the same dose(fentyl in the heroin) at the same time, with the same tolerance. I passed out and she kept going. She realized what was going on and made a conscious effort to stay awake. Which was good because later, she found me not breathing and was able to resuscitate me.

Also as for the bag, test it first. A 5/10 bag is definitely not like 80 mg of oxycodone. I can inject 2, 20mg OC
s and it will feel like a 5/10 bag. (Not rush-wise, but intoxication wise) But, supervise for awhile. Staying awake really does make a difference.
Have you done it yet?
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wait you can inject 2 20mgs oxy? thats 40mg which is half a bag. . so 8)
haha
 
^ Half a bag of street heroin, which isn't always 100mg, btw, is always varying in potency batch by batch, so neither comparison means anything. Shit, give me 30 minutes and I could go to Detroit, and easily find one bag of dope that doesn't even equal 20mg of Oxycodone and one bag of dope that is stronger than 80mg of Oxycodone. It's not hard to find such vast differences in potency, and any comparison to pharmaceutical, pure drugs is not possible.

In other words, 2 20mg Oxy's does not always equal 40mg heroin which doesn't always equal half a bag anyway, so wtf are you talking about?
 
socio said:
OD can happy immediately, but it can also happen HOURS later. I read somewhere (no reference) that the median time to OD (i.e. time between administration and ER admission) was several hours with INJECTED heroin.

If you have suboxone, or better yet Narcan, on hand, that might make things safer, but might also give you a false sense of security. In my opinion, it is very IMPORTANT to call 9-1-1 if someone stops responding.

Also, I think it sounds very dangerous to give an entire bag to a neophyte. Even half a bag sounds like too much to IV. I don't think you need anything like that if the dope is decent. Daily users/addicts can oftentimes get a rush off 1/2 - 1 bag.

If he got off on 1/6 of a bag last time, that's the proper dose. Maybe 1/4 or 1/3 TOPS. But this is very dangerous.

It sounds like he is seeking a destructive experience, the opposite of harm reduction!:
How does he know he didn't get the "full effects" if it was his first time? If it feels good, those are the full effects!

By the way, you can also try IM/SC after the initial IV dose (for a "rush")... I'm not sure if that's safer or more dangerous (since it will take a few minutes to kick in). Any thoughts?
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suboxone does not do shit for Opiate overdoses
 
Um, yes it does. Making claims like that is retarded, especially when it's not true and you don't even provide anything to back it up. At least all the people - myself included - provided something to back the claims up, not that it needs us to do that since science/pharmacology clearly supports it.

Buprenorphine = partial antagonist = ability to reverse ODs

Suboxone = Buprenorphine and Naloxone = partial opiate antagonist/opiate antagonist = ability to reverse ODs

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.
 
hmm, i stand corrected.

i know about suboxone however i have been under the impression, from the lil handbooks they give to out Sub patients that it is not wise to administer Suboxone in the event of a OD

my mistake.
 
In the event of withdrawal? In the event of withdrawal you are supposed to administer Suboxone since that is what it is made for. I assume you meant OD. It isn't wise to administer Suboxone in the event of an OD, but in a pinch/last ditch effort, it would work. You should always call EMS or take the person to the ER, but if you absolutely had to, Suboxone could work. There are many problems in figuring out how much to administer and how to administer it, but the science behind it working is sound.

No problem, but I wouldn't have had to correct you if you read the whole thread. It's been clearly state a few times in here that it works, so I assume you missed all that.
 
^^ yea i edited the WD to OD

and yea sorry i read that post, n qouted right away.

it does say not to though in the lil handbook thingy i got when i had my induction\

my appologies though
 
It's no problem.

I have that handbook too, and it definitely does say it, but it says it because they don't want people gambling with their/other peoples lives and giving them Suboxone instead of proper medical attention. Suboxone in theory (and in practice on a few occasions documented in this thread and across the internet) will reverse an OD, but calling EMS or taking someone to the hospital and administering rescue breathing/CPR/Narcan (if you have it) in the mean time is always the best thing to do.
 
I was saying that an average (5 out of 10)heroin bag feels like about 40mg of oxycodone to me. Bags vary in quality and quantity drastically. I was using a grading system of 1 = crap; 10 = 99% pure. I bascily meant that if 1 bag feels like 80mg of oxycodone, it's a fire bag.
Really, testing is the only way to gauge.
When you have someone who hasn't been breathing, and there's no narcan on hand, Suboxone will work for sure to overturn an overdose; (I have done it) However, standard practice should be to call 911. Just don't mention drugs until the paramedics get there. On the phone, just say you're friend isn't breathing and they'll walk you thru CPR.
@OP What happened?
 
Z Y G G Y said:
Sounds like he is getting a taste for it. U already gave him the experience...what if he asks u the third time? I never had problems with drugs until I picked up heroin. I'd wash my hands of this situation if I were u. He might end up dead and his family might sue ur ass for providing him the drugs. U seem like a really nice and well put together guy. I'd hate to see u in any kind of a bad situation cuz of this and this is a situation in which bad things might happen. Really? Is his second heroin experience really worth ur possible freedom, not even talking about his death, just talking about what might happen to u if something goes wrong. It's gonna be on u.

Sorry, don't want to sound condescending, not my goal. U just seem like a nice person and had to say this in case u didn't think of it.
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bingo! a guy round here just got like 5 years just for failing to call when a girl o/d let alone putting it in his arm . if anything happens that is easily criminally neg. homiside and possibly inov. manslughter stay away for your sake nothing good can come from this situation think about it !!
 
HighonLife said:
suboxone does not do shit for Opiate overdoses
Click to expand...

sixpartseven said:
Um, yes it does. Making claims like that is retarded, especially when it's not true and you don't even provide anything to back it up. At least all the people - myself included - provided something to back the claims up, not that it needs us to do that since science/pharmacology clearly supports it.

Buprenorphine = partial antagonist = ability to reverse ODs

Suboxone = Buprenorphine and Naloxone = partial opiate antagonist/opiate antagonist = ability to reverse ODs

Sorry, but you're dead wrong.
Click to expand...

HighonLife said:
hmm, i stand corrected.

i know about suboxone however i have been under the impression, from the lil handbooks they give to out Sub patients that it is not wise to administer Suboxone in the event of a OD

my mistake.
Click to expand...

sixpartseven said:
In the event of withdrawal? In the event of withdrawal you are supposed to administer Suboxone since that is what it is made for. I assume you meant OD. It isn't wise to administer Suboxone in the event of an OD, but in a pinch/last ditch effort, it would work. You should always call EMS or take the person to the ER, but if you absolutely had to, Suboxone could work. There are many problems in figuring out how much to administer and how to administer it, but the science behind it working is sound.

No problem, but I wouldn't have had to correct you if you read the whole thread. It's been clearly state a few times in here that it works, so I assume you missed all that.
Click to expand...

Woah, I was confused during that discussion. I thought we were in the Using Suboxone Like Narcan thread. Color me confused. Regardless, it works.
 
Not calling your friend a liar, but have you ever considered the fact that he did feel good last time and just wants to do it again, but try and get higher?

Sounds like something I would do..

"Maybe another taste will help me decide..", until the whole soup is gone? ;p
 
Honestly I think he could handle a whole bag, I know that's how much I did the first time I shot and I had no problems. If you want to be super careful go for half the bag, I can't see him ODing on it.
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Bad fucking advice. My opiate-naive friend did exactly this (half a bag) and we had to dial 911 5 minutes later.

Obviously test the bag yourself to get a good idea of how powerful it is for you. You should be able to figure out how much you can give him from there. If I was shooting up an opiate-naive friend I would start at an 1/8th of a bag, after making sure it wasn't some crazy shit.
 
sixpartseven said:
I think what you quoted includes people who stop breathing while nodding or sleeping later on during the high. If you stay awake and alert, that won't happen. An OD doesn't always imply being knocked out; an OD is just taking more than you normally do/more than suggested. It's possible to OD and be fine for a few hours, but later on die from respiratory depression while asleep or by choking on vomit or whatever. Your study is not saying that people are spontaneously dying hours later. It's saying that death caused by ODing occurs much later, but all those deaths could be avoided if the person ODing stays awake/alert.

What I meant is if in the first few minutes you don't uncontrollably lose consciousness, then it's not going to spontaneously happen later on. It's just not possible.
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I don't believe this is entirley true. I don't have any data to back it up but I know of a victim. Janis Joplin ODed on Heroin, and just minutes before she died she was talking to a hotel clerk for about 15-20. According to the clerk she was in perfect condition, awake, alert, she wasn't nodding or anything. She then walked back to her room and as soon as she got in she collapsed on the floor and died. Now I forgot where I read it but the autopsy or article stated that she did not do more Heroin after she left the hotel desk to go to her room, and it also said she collapsed about 1 to 2 minutes when she entered her room and died seconds to minutes later.

So it does seem quite possible in Janis Joplin case. I wish I had more info to give you, I'll look it up one of these days and send you the article/autopsy/whatever else I read.. Bujt I know for a fact she was alert and fine talking to the clerk, then she fell over dead minutes later. I'm on ambien right now so I'm having trouble remember the dosage she took or when she first took the Heroin, but I'm sure I'll be of much better help tomorrow.
 
^If there's mixing going on,especially pills (benzo, barbiturates, MAOI's, etc) which take time to dissolve it's a factor. Also, if you puke while passed out, that'll kill you too.
If it's just heroin, especially a single dose, the risk of od is mostly immediate. If they seem like they're nodding afterwards, they might slip off, but if they've made it thru the nod and stay awake, they'll be fine.
Also, learn about the "rescue postion" If they od at their own house and you don't want to wait around for help, do your best to get them breathing on their own, and leave them in this position for the paramedics.
During one OD at my house, she literally fell face first on the floor immediately after her iniital injection. Another time it happened in my house, she took a lot over a 2 hour period, and didn't fall out until about 20 minutes after her last shot. So, staggering large amounts makes the od risk last longer.
 
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