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Quercetin and Bromelain: MDMA potentiato

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Hikeboy3000

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So I came across this quite by accident. My allergies have been quite awful this past few weeks, and I have been taking Quercetin and Bromelain combination for many years to help with hay fever. For those that do not know, quercetin is a bioflavonoid found in apple and grape skins, and bromelain is an enzyme found in pineapples. Both are fairly potent antihistamines, and do not have any noticeable side effects. I’ve been taking this twice a day for the past few weeks, because of the atrocious pollen count in my neighborhood.

Well, I decided to take MDMA last weekend for my birthday. It’s been about 4 months since I’ve done so, and the past few times I have taken it, the experience has been rather underwhelming. I haven’t been experiencing the normal empathogenic effects, and haven’t had a huge desire to connect and chat with people. The effects have worn off pretty quickly as well.

When I dosed my MDMA last weekend, I had taken my quercetin and bromelain for my allergies about an hour prior. Also, this is the same batch of MDMA I had taken over the past year that was underwhelming. I dosed 160 mgs, and whoah! The lights were brighter, the music sounded amazing, and I felt compelled to to connect and chat with all of the beautiful people! And my roll lasted a good 4 hours! Incredible.

I thought that maybe it was jus a fluke, and I had a great experience because I have been eating better and working out again, but I found that quercetin does in fact have a strong inhibitory effect against the CYP2d6 enzyme, the enzyme that metabolizes MDMA, among other drugs.

Studying the Inhibitory Effect of Quercetin and Thymoquinone on Human Cytochrome P450 Enzyme Activities - PMC

Quercetin (QR) and thymoquinone (TQ) are herbal remedies that are currently extensively used by the general population to prevent and treat various chronic conditions. Therefore, investigating the potential of pharmacokinetic interactions caused by ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Just wanted to pass the knowledge, as I haven’t seen this talked about as a potentiator.
 
Hikeboy3000 said:
So I came across this quite by accident. My allergies have been quite awful this past few weeks, and I have been taking Quercetin and Bromelain combination for many years to help with hay fever. For those that do not know, quercetin is a bioflavonoid found in apple and grape skins, and bromelain is an enzyme found in pineapples. Both are fairly potent antihistamines, and do not have any noticeable side effects. I’ve been taking this twice a day for the past few weeks, because of the atrocious pollen count in my neighborhood.

Well, I decided to take MDMA last weekend for my birthday. It’s been about 4 months since I’ve done so, and the past few times I have taken it, the experience has been rather underwhelming. I haven’t been experiencing the normal empathogenic effects, and haven’t had a huge desire to connect and chat with people. The effects have worn off pretty quickly as well.

When I dosed my MDMA last weekend, I had taken my quercetin and bromelain for my allergies about an hour prior. Also, this is the same batch of MDMA I had taken over the past year that was underwhelming. I dosed 160 mgs, and whoah! The lights were brighter, the music sounded amazing, and I felt compelled to to connect and chat with all of the beautiful people! And my roll lasted a good 4 hours! Incredible.

I thought that maybe it was jus a fluke, and I had a great experience because I have been eating better and working out again, but I found that quercetin does in fact have a strong inhibitory effect against the CYP2d6 enzyme, the enzyme that metabolizes MDMA, among other drugs.

Studying the Inhibitory Effect of Quercetin and Thymoquinone on Human Cytochrome P450 Enzyme Activities - PMC

Quercetin (QR) and thymoquinone (TQ) are herbal remedies that are currently extensively used by the general population to prevent and treat various chronic conditions. Therefore, investigating the potential of pharmacokinetic interactions caused by ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Just wanted to pass the knowledge, as I haven’t seen this talked about as a potentiator.
Click to expand...
Hello and thank you for sharing your interesting experience I also have really severe allergies g2a long-term Lyme disease and I actually take bromelain capsules every day because it is one of the very few supplements I can tolerate which does not exacerbate my abnormal excessive mucus production and respiratory symptoms and actually greatly assists with these symptoms which is the most well-known benefits of bromelain, asides from it being a digestive enzyme.

I have not used MDMA since 2005 when my illness commenced but I have acquired to high-quality Dutch MDMA pills which I plan to experiment with soon so it is interesting to hear that one of the supplements I use may actually potentiate the experience and make it more lively.

Except of course we don't know if bromelain by itself without the quercetin will be effective in this manner I do not have any quercetin because there is such a likelihood I will be intolerance to it as I am with 99% plus of these supplements out there.

Bromelain is one of the very few exceptions. But it does work on multiple levels actually so I don't see why it could not facilitate a better metabolism or experience of certain drugs like MDMA in the body.
 
I have scoured the internet to see if bromelain by itself would potentiate MDMA, and couldn’t find anything. However, it definitely potentiates sedatives, such as alcohol and benzos. I’m interested to hear your experience, although I suspect you’ll have a mind blowing good time because it’s been so long since you’ve taken it.

I just realized that quercetin inhibits CYP2D6 enzyme, the same enzyme that grapefruit juice inhibits. I always take MDMA with grapefruit juice, and the effects from the quercetin are far more dramatically c, and seems to have a more ch stronger potentiating effect then grapefruit juice.
 
Hikeboy3000 said:
I have scoured the internet to see if bromelain by itself would potentiate MDMA, and couldn’t find anything. However, it definitely potentiates sedatives, such as alcohol and benzos. I’m interested to hear your experience, although I suspect you’ll have a mind blowing good time because it’s been so long since you’ve taken it.

I just realized that quercetin inhibits CYP2D6 enzyme, the same enzyme that grapefruit juice inhibits. I always take MDMA with grapefruit juice, and the effects from the quercetin are far more dramatically c, and seems to have a more ch stronger potentiating effect then grapefruit juice.
Click to expand...
Oh yes one other thing I am particularly curious about is vitamin C. I take very large amounts of ascorbic acid every day.
It is another very rare supplement I can tolerate not just without adverse respiratory and excessive mucus effects but I get indescribable relief from these exact symptoms by taking the ascorbic acid powder which literally dissolves and thins mucus in the upper respiratory tract and throughout.

I just could not manage without the ascorbic acid. I take probably 10 to 15 grams a day.
A while ago, I took 1plsd after a 6.5 year break from tripping. I always handled my trips extremely well. But I take much more vitamin C now than in the past.

Anyway, 200ug hit me surprisingly and unexpectedly fast. I didnt even have time to sit down and think. Like instantly coming up, getting stronger by the passing second.
Strong visuals by 25 minutes, fully tripping shortly after and unbelievably intense and deep for the dose.

It was an intense ride, although my nervous system is generally very sensitive currently due to my condition and Lyme Disease damages.

But 4 days later I took 100ug only, half the dose, WITH a tolerance (supposedly).
I got a surprisingly sufficient effect. If I had taken 200ug again, those 4 days after the first time, it would have been plenty enough and still very intense I think.

26 hours later, having come down long before but afterglowing, not slept- I took 300ug, reasoning that nothing less would register on account of me having come down.

Like, 200ug should be about equal to half that amount- the 100ug dose the day before, according to the theory of needing twice the amount the following day for the same effects.

100ug wasn"t quite enough for a fully satisfying trip, 1.5 times the dose would have been better but no way too intense.
So my 300ug dose, 26 hours after the 100ug, 3rd time in 5 days- should have felt like 150ug would have done 26 hours earlier.
In theory anyway. But it actually hit me suprisingly hard again, with a really fast and intense come up which I wasn't expecting and almost sent me into a bad trip.

I was quite debilitated for a few hours just riding the intense comeup out before it began to settle into a nice plateau with amazing sparkly visual and hallucinogenic effects to appreciate.


Anyway I I'm aware of the reputation vitamin C ascorbic acid has in the mushroom community for enhancing or potentiating the mushrooms. Going by these experiences and bodily feedback, my gut and intuitive bodily awarebess, Im seriously wondering if my high dose vitamin C might have 2 effects on my Lsd tolerance:

First, to potentiate it, increase and speed up absorption especially in relation to intensity of onset.
And additionally, (and if this is possibly the case that would be so awsome by partly nullifying what is, IMO the biggest and main downside of Lsd)- it may be resetting my tolerance faster.

I do think there is a possibility of this. Some things just felt remarkably different about the way it came on. 1plsd is widely reported to have a faster, more abrupt comeup and quicker to peak vs Lsd 25.

But still, my own experience still doesnt match any others I have heard of since regarding speed and intensity of the comeup.

So, regarding Vitamin C and MDMA. I did get a bit concerned by some ideas that vitamin c speeds up metabolism of amphetamines as well as urinary excretion or something I think.
As if it will shorten the effects of MDMA. Ultimately, I think my high vitamin C is a good thing in a protective antioxidant sense when it comes to taking MDMA.

I would not be able to stop taking it but I could reduce the dosage that day a little bit. Although I expect to just carry on as normal and see what happened but I am intrigued as to whether the vitamin C May potentiate the MDMA or reduce it's effectiveness.

My diet is generally extremely high in Powerful antioxidants another particular supplement I take daily and could not live without is Oil of Oregano, which is amazing for respiratory symptoms and infections.

It also happens to be one of the most dense and Powerful sources of antioxidants in the world alongside cinnamon which I also use in large quantities everyday.
Plus a lot of other antioxidants from diet and other spices.

I think the oil of oregano definitely has some potentiating effects for substances and general I notice this with my cannabis use. I have never taken MDMA before while dosing on oregano oil or vitamin C at any time in the past.

But I do expect a fairly strong effect from the substance on account of these possible factors but also my condition and sensitivity.
 
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I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I'm not gonna flush my Molly and I don't need anybody be in my father I just wanna know if I'm wasting my money by doing half a gram each time Instead of .15 because I finished the 2 g in about 3 days
 
robridge414 said:
I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I'm not gonna flush my Molly and I don't need anybody be in my father I just wanna know if I'm wasting my money by doing half a gram each time Instead of .15 because I finished the 2 g in about 3 days
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Im not sure this is the right place to ask your question. This is a tiny thread about how certain supplements affect MDMA effectiveness.

There are far more appropriate MDMA threads here if you look,under Forums, MDMA, or you could even start a new thread and ask your question there.

However, I think you need to provide a lot more information first because nobody will be able to give you any sort of decent advice based on the extremely limited amount of information you have given us.

You can't realistically expect to glean much knowledge and experience from the community with almost zero detail, explanation and background.
 
This is really interesting.

I believe Quercitin also has some specific actions with 5HTA receptors. I did not realize it had an inhibitory effect on CYP2D6.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Quercetin inhibits the 5-hydroxytryptamine type 3 receptor-mediated ion current by interacting with pre-transmembrane domain I - PubMed

The flavonoid, quercetin, is a low molecular weight substance found in apple, tomato and other fruit. Besides its antioxidative effect, quercetin, like other flavonoids, has a wide range of neuropharmacological actions including analgesia, and motility, sleep, anticonvulsant, sedative and...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Although your experience sounds really interesting and promising, I would be hesitant to try it. Playing with CYP2D6 can be dangerous, and I have personally watched a friend turn blue and have a seizure due to unwittingly mixing Celebrex and ecstasty at a party. Celebrex also ties up CYP2D6.

From Dancesafe:
"Some drugs are metabolized (broken down) through the same liver enzyme as MDMA, known as the CYP2D6 enzyme (pronounced “sip-two-dee-six”). If you take MDMA along with another drug that is metabolized by the CYP2D6 enzyme, they will both be metabolized much more slowly, as the same enzymes struggle to break down two drugs at the same time. It is like taking a higher dose of both drugs, and this can be dangerous, especially if the other drug has a low overdose threshold."

As for the vitamin C, @AutoTripper, in my experience it does dampen the MDMA experience if it is taken before the roll.
 
indigoaura said:
As for the vitamin C, @AutoTripper, in my experience it does dampen the MDMA experience if it is taken before the roll.
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Hello and hope you are good and merry. Thank you for sharing that. And yes that is exactly what I was afraid of. I really want to get the maximum out of my approahing MDMA experience(s).
But managing as best possible and staying absolutely on top of my respiratory symptoms has to take priority always.

So Im trying to guess exactly how much it will matter. Like, maybe it is like effectively nullifying BOTH the good and the bad, possibly equally?

I wonder if that could be possible. In which case, a dosage increase could remedy it?
Just thinking aloud here hehe.
Or it may not be purely quantative of course.

I am also genuinely considering the plugging method. This is especially appealing to me as it is predominantly digestive and gastrointestinal issues which prevent me from ever being able to ingest any of these substances currently, my lysergamides included.

I just need to be comfortable enough in my body, not too tired. Importantly to have eaten enough food that day for sufficient energy until food the next day. Im extremely underweight and fatigued. Food should be my main priority, aside sleep deprivation.

But it is simply impossible for me to eat and actually digest any sufficient amount of food, at any time on any day, let alone at a reasonable time.
Extreme allergy and dietary restrictions are the cause of an abnormal, catastrophic existence regarding the daily taking off food and nutrition.

It is the most incredibly complex difficult and stressful task. For a long time of late I have had the most awful digestive and stomach upset permanently taking all day to recover before I can eat late in the evening like a vicious circle.

At no point have I felt comfortable enough in my body to trip on lysergamides or tryptamines. I feel much less anxiety about MDMA here (I mean the psyches can really enhance your awareness of existing bodily discomfort and I just can't bear that aspect of it in this current condition.)

But I still need to at least feel "okay" in my body to approach it. It would be wasteful otherwise.
However, things I swallow do effect both my digestive, and respiratory system. I would be very surprised if MDMA and/or any pill binders etc doesnt have any effects on my lungs and breathing, plus stomach/digestion.

My stomach is simply never empty, always catching up on undigested food. I am working on it. The last 2 days actually is the first time I can see myself feeling right enough. With some work and commitment.

But even at the best of times, it is actually swallowing the Ecstasy pill which is the issue. So Im thinking about plugging. I have done it in the distant past, both in pill form and syringe in water.

I think the unbroken pill can struggle to break down and be used effeciently. The water syringe method wasnt fantastic, I think I got bad constipation from it as well.

So Im wondering if crushing the half pill, then plugging in an empty capsule as a powder might be better. I do also have serious IBS, related directly to digestive issues and constsntly catching up processing undigested food and waste.

With diarrhoea and regular bowel movements more than constipation. But as long as I picked my moment with a window of opportunity (lol, please excuse me Im really not one for toilet humour, just pure good humour all the way) then I hope I could get away with it. A capsule should dissolve fully, 100 odd milligrams shouldnt take long to be taken up, without causing an obstruction.

So I really dont know. It could all change from here as my condition may improve fairly soon. I need to look into plugging some more.

Oh yes I forgot to say- plugging would entirely negate the respiratory and stomach effects, and even more relevantly as I have only just remembered it should completely solve the issue of vitamin C weakening my roll.

Also in my past experiences when the plugging was more successful I did find it to be noticeably more Potent but in a different way, far more tranquil.
 
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Man, @AutoTripper, your situation sounds so much like my partner's. So sorry you are going through this. He has the extreme food allergies too, and eats a super limited diet. Have you ever had a DNA stool test done? This is the kind of test where they evaluate the DNA residue in your stool. A test called "Gut Zoomer" finally set my partner on a path towards digestive normalcy. You may want to look into it. It revealed what was overgrown and what was not growing etc as far as the microbiome is concerned. He has totally turned his digestion around with the info from the test.

But...as far as plugging goes, I am not sure if it will correct the vitamin C issue or not. The antioxidant effects of vitamin C will occur in the brain, as will the effects of MDMA. So, whatever is going on with vitamin C "dulling" the roll will probably still occur. For me, I just wait and take the vitamin C after I have come down from the roll. It totally prevents a bad comedown in my experience. It is very helpful when I take it after the roll is over.

Also, I think a pill in a gelcap may really take too long to dissolve.

When I plugged before, it was with the water/syringe method. I liked the absorption, but did not like the burning. LOL. It was distracting. Although, admittedly, I have thought about trying it again, because I have wondered about whether this would avoid some of the stomach issues I get after rolling.
 
@indigoaura thanks for your thoughts. I should perhaps make it a little clearer in that my whole crazy digestive issue situation is more related to my abnormal excessive mucus production in response to eating anything and how I have to manage this aggressively with supplements and spices and dietary restrictions and I can never eat when I need to eat in the way that I need to eat due to needing to deal with these symptoms constantly and how they prevent me from being able to relax about food at sensible times etc so the whole thing is just one gigantic impossible vicious circle no matter what I do and try.

If the respiratory symptoms were healed and I did not need to eat foods which aggravate my stomach to manage my mucus and take certain supplements and could eat whatever I needed when I needed my digestive capability would improve radically no matter what else I did.

So it is as much a practical or rather impractical matter as it is due to any sort of serious underlying problems.

I just added that but I came here to paste this little excerpt I just found about
vitamin C:

"Recommended dosage and frequency:
  • Proposed: 500mg every three hours, starting ~3 hours before taking MDMA, finishing ~6-7 hours after your MDMA dose
  • Be cautious with Vitamin C, as “higher doses (2,000-6,000mg) may cause diarrhea.”20 If you know you can take more Vitamin C without GI-issues, consider taking 500mg every 1-2 hours instead of every 3 hours, as smaller frequent doses of supplements may be better.
“Treatment of rats with ascorbic acid suppressed the generation of hydroxyl radicals, as evidenced by the production of 2,3-dihydroxybenzoic acid from salicylic acid, in the striatum during the administration of a neurotoxic regimen of MDMA. Ascorbic acid also attenuated the MDMA-induced depletion of striatal 5-HT content.”
Shankaran M, Yamamoto BK, Gudelsky GA. Ascorbic acid prevents 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA)-induced hydroxyl radical formation and the behavioral and neurochemical consequences of the depletion of brain 5-HT. Synapse. 2001;40(1):55-64.6"

Im too tired to even comprehend it right now, but I think the suggestion is that the vitamin C could be enhancing the effect of the MDMA in this study??
 
indigoaura said:
Basically, the vitamin C reduces the neurotoxicity of MDMA.
Click to expand...
Hello and good day. Hehe, well when I read that little excerpt I quoted above on vitamin C this morning (or afternoon actually), it read absolutely nothing like it did last night.

In my excessively tired and stoned state, I imagined a completely different meaning altogether. Talk about illusion, it was like reading an entirely different script after a little sleep.

Regarding plugging, I keep reading it is specifically the higher acidity of the stomach, from the vitamin C, which reduces the effectiveness of MDMA.

So if this is correct,, then I would actually expect plugging to make a difference, without the vitamin C having any dampening or diminishing effect.

I am thinking it makes a lot of sense for me. I do also think using a capsule may work well enough. Except I would not use gelatin because I am allergic to it.

I would use plant cellulose capsules which is how I take all of they are supplements which I can tolerate such as bromelain and Aloe Vera.
I dont think the capsule will have any issues dissolving. As soon as they get slightly moist they disintegrate very quickly indeed. I would not want to wet the capsule much if at all before inserting because I would be worried that it would start to break up before I have done the deed.

It only needs a tiny bit of moisture and disintegration is rapid and complete.

I also could use a 2 ml water syringe method. Besides the almost guaranteed stomach and respiratory effects from swalowing the (1/2)pill, the vitamin C factor is what is pushing me in this direction. I ordered some empty size 1 capsules anyway, we will see when the time comes.

Separately, on the topic of supplements and MDMA harm reduction, I found this extremely interesting and informative page by the drug classroom guy.

Its chocca with all the major studies. Really interesting.
Have a scroll down, the vitamin C Section is very interesting but of particular interest is the cannabis studies and their effects on mitigating the harmful side effects and risks of MDMA use.

On paper it looks like cannabis itself is one of the most protective and beneficial substances of all to combine with MDMA, particularly for reducing the heating effects, but also quite a few other important markers were improved considerably.

That said, this was in my exceptionally tired stayed last night so I could have imagined a lot of things here lol.

But I don't think so and from what I read about the cannabis and its interactions I am now thinking that it would be extremely advisable for me to partake in my usual cannabis consumption (vaping organic only) during and throughout my MDMA experience and probably beforehand as well.

From a protection point of view I mean. I wasn't entirely sure how I would approach my cannabis usage ideally I would like to be fresh or the beginning of the MDMA experience although I have always used cannabis on the come ups on virtually all substances, including acid. To me it has always complimented the experiences as long as you do not get too heavily stoned and monged out of course.

Anyway its a really interesting and comprehensive page to have a look at.
ALA also looks to be extremely beneficial and protective I'm not sure if I could tolerate this supplement as 99% + of supplements I cannot tolerate at all.

I think it may be present in flax seed oil I could consider getting some of that which I'm sure I could tolerate, I take cod liver oil but I could just switch to flax oil if I think it is really worth it.

I also did buy some 5 HTP capsules which I have tried in the past but did not tolerate very well although I'm thinking it may be worth trying in the following days after my experience. My vitamin C intake will remain constant and high so that will be of help too. Oh yes, the link to the studies:

thedrugclassroom.com

MDMA's Neurotoxicity: What the Research Shows & How to Reduce Your Risk (Detailed) - The Drug Classroom

The neurotoxicity of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) has been a controversial topic for decades. Even though a lot of research has been published, we still don’t fully understand what the harm potential is. As it currently stands, there’s good evidence for serotonergic dysfunction (not...
thedrugclassroom.com thedrugclassroom.com
 
Just a few quick thoughts folks.

First, one rather alarming point about vitamin C from the studies I linked, but first, some of the positives to vitamin C:

"Vitamin C’s effect on MDMA’s serotonin depletion (1 week after dosing)

MDMA led to a significant decline in serotonin in the striatumVitamin C prevented the serotonin depletion to the extent that there was no difference from controls.

Vitamin C’s effect on functional consequences of serotonin depletion (1 week after dosing)

MDMA 7.5 mg/kg IPRats only given MDMA had a significantly lower rise in serotonin from a challenge dose of MDMA one week later.The rise in serotonin was significantly greater if rats had been given both MDMA and Vitamin C.

There was no difference in the response from control rats that didn’t receive MDMA the first time."


Sounds good don't you think? But then:

"MDMA 15 mg/kg IP

MDMA would normally lead to serotonin syndrome at this dose with headweaving, forepaw treading, and low body posture.
Those actions were significantly suppressed if they had received MDMA a week earlier.

The actions were much greater in those that received both MDMA and Vitamin C before.

Also, only having MDMA the first time attenuated the rise in temperature for the later challenge dose.Vitamin C the first time pallowed hyperthermia to occur significantly more during the challenge."


It is rather brief and vague, but to my compromised faculties it appears that whike vitamin C does clearly help hugely in a protective sense, a folow up MDMA dose (admittedly and extremely high one though), 1 week later- if vitamin C was taken before/with/after the previous weeks MDMA dose, those listed negative effects were less supressed than the MDMA only week earliers, as well as a greater tendency towards hypothermia in the group that received vitamin C the week previous.


Also very interesting is the fact that these negative side effects of MDMA including hypothermia appears to be dampened down and not as severe as they would be at this high dosage as a direct result of having dosed one week earlier.

This almost suggests that you could go about your consumption in a certain way and take the drug fairly regularly with some benefits from the regular use in terms of protection from higher doses.

I'm not expressing this thought very well but something along the lines of it not being so black and white and there possibly being a way to sail through some rocky waters without the same level of damage as might be predicted or occur in others or different situations.


That is all. My brain is shot today, I didnt eat at all on Sunday. Coming up to 34 hours since last food. 36 hours is a "fast".

Any less is not a true 1 day fast. So I might as well hold out right, to get a little extra detox in and digestive rejuvenation. Well hungry trust.
 
Serotonin syndrome is due to too much serotonin being released. In other words, the MDMA is working TOO WELL. So, it makes sense to me that if you take Vitamin C and protect your brain/serotonin supply that you have a greater chance of having more serotonin to release a week later.

All this means, to me, is that the vitamin C either allows you to rebuild your serotonin faster, or it prevents you from losing as much serotonin in the first MDMA vitamin C combo.

As for 5HTP...it does not help me. Actually, it makes my comedown way worse. I have read theories that bad comedowns are partially due to down-regulated receptors and that 5HTP can keep those receptors down-regulated due to over-stimulation.
 
^That’s not how it works at all lol. Vitamin C is an antioxidant which means it neutralizes free radicals, many of which are ROS. The oxidative damage caused by free radicals is one of the things that cause ‘damage’ in the brain, likely regarding the autooxidation of dopamine specifically.

Vitamin C will have no direct impact on serotonin levels.

Also, 5HTP is not going to downregulate due to overstimulation.

As far as metabolism, vitamin C will increase urinary pH which will increase the clearance (and reduce total length of duration) for all amphetamines no matter the route of administration.
 
Swim15, how do you explain the research autotripper just posted then? I had read before that vitamin C could have a direct impact on the re-uptake of serotonin through dopamine transporters (one of the theorized mechanisms for neurotoxicity). If it is not impacting serotonin in any way, why would it have an impact on serotonin syndrome a week later?

Also, vitamin C does directly impact serotonin production. "Vitamin C is also a cofactor for tryptophan-5- hydroxylase required for the conversion of tryptophan to 5-hydroxytryptophan in serotonin production. Vitamin C may therefore be valuable for patients with depression associated with low levels of serotonin." Link: https://www.ijss-sn.com/uploads/2/0/1/5/20153321/ijss-08.pdf

Also, in regards to 5HTP, if your serotonin receptors were down-regulated due to MDMA use, and then you overloaded yourself with 5HTP/serotonin, you absolutely could continue that down-regulated state or re-activate it. There is research to support this, and even to prove that 5HTP by itself can down regulate receptors.

Research link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3261199
 
Vitamin C is impacting serotonin syndrome by the mechanism I mentioned above.

Also, yes, vitamin C is an enzyme cofactor but that means that amounts taken in excess (supplements) would only matter if an individual was deficient to begin with. Most people definitely should not be so adding more cofactor won’t impact the enzyme Vmax or Km.

As far as 5HTP, that study is comparing rats to humans which I wouldn’t rely a whole lot on. But, more importantly, it’s using massive doses of 5HTP. IMO it’s beneficial to restore serotonin post MDMA use but it just needs to be a slowly running sink, not a fire hose. Taking 50-100mg with a decarboxylase inhibitor for roughly a week post roll has been wha I have found to be most effective.

As far as this discussion goes, the optimal supplement regimen I’ve found would be a combo of:
Metformin
NAC
CoQ10
ALCAR
ALA
EPA/DHA - preferably krill oil with astaxanthin
Vitamin C - post roll only to prevent a decrease in MDMA effects
 
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Hello @Swim15 thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowlege.
So regarding my high daily compulsory vitamin C intake- it really wont make any difference if I did plug- the MDMA will be cleared from my system faster no matter what the route?

From the blood, faster, due to increased urinary acidity? So it is less to do with stomach acidity?

I use ascorbic acid, which is well known to be very acidic/acidifying.
However, I also take high quantities of unrefined salt everyday- Redmond Real Salt us the best.

Refined salt is especially bad for us and is in particular, highly acidifying.
Unrefined salts like Redmond and Himalayan are highly alkalising.

I practised a health protocol some years back, touted as a powerful treatment for Lyme Disease, called the "Salt/C protocol".

Using high doses of both, up to 15 grams each, daily. I did really struggle with stomach issues from so much ascorbic acid.

But I did find that the acidifying effect of the ascorbic acid was neutralised or kept in check by the equally high doses of unrefined salt.
Also I use a lot of organic spices for their medicinal effects, and importantly for essential management of respiratory issues.

Principally cayenne and turmeric, also lots of cinnamon.
These spices, cayenne in particular, are especially alkalising. So Im hoping that these factors can reduce the extent to which the acidifying nature of ascorbic acid will have a dampening effect on my MDMA experience. I hope anyway.

I wont be taking any 5-htp, I tried one capsule on Sunday and had such a severe respiratory reaction. It really buzzed me up as well, I forgot I took it and I had just taken a canna-coconut oil edible dose.

There was a definite synergy between the 5-htp and the cannabis with quite strong effects, no way placebo.
 
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