Pure meth crystals -- ineffective unless smoked?

[zorn]

The title is a little misleading, but I was reminded of this by reading this thread. It seems my experience below could well extend to meth and might explain quale's experience.
A while back, I found a hookup for some methcathinone. Before you ask, I am fairly certain it was cat; I know the effects of meth, amphetamine, and ephedrine, and it was very distinct from these... it was not fun enough to be 4-MA, and I can't imagine anyone would have gone to the trouble to get anything more obscure as pass it off as something so shitty or sell it so cheap, esp considering its appearance.
Anyways, it came in the form of clear decent-sized crystals, so I assumed it was uncut. I and a friend snorted several fat-ass lines -- probably 200mg or so each -- with virtually no effect. We assumed we'd gotten ripped off, but thought it odd because the crystals looked so pure. There was some left over, so one day I tried smoking a little bit in a little glass crack pipe. Perhaps 20mg smoked got me quite high, and it matched nearly exactly the cat trip reports. A few other people -- including the other one for whom snorting had failed -- reported the exact same thing.
To this day this continues to baffle me... snorting->smoking should not be more than a 10x potency boost. I wonder now if it couldn't have been something to do with it being in crystalline form. Anyone have any similar experiences? Knowledge of this? Maybe it just absorbed so slowly nasally I didn't notice it; I think I did get high a half hour or an hour later that night on some other stuff. Or maybe it was just one of those weird things, like we through sheer luck happened to snort all the cut and smoke the good stuff.
-Zorn
[ 13 December 2001: Message edited by: zorn ]

 

[Icehead]

Dood that link is phucked, (its the post a reply page !).
And are you sure you didnt imagine it or hyperventilate?

 

[zorn]

Link fixed. Yes, I am positive. I was stimmed for a good 8 hours, heart rate way up, nice body buzz, too jittery and twitchy. Same with my friends; they even crashed.

 

[PhreeX]

Weird.. 200mg is about the lowest possible dose you can take with methcathinone - even 200mg wont do much other then give you some mild energy .. so I can't explain why you got high from smoking a little - even though smoking is a more direct way, I would think you would have to smoke some more.. oh well, it's cat - I hope you didn't pay more then $20 for that gram (even thats high) ..
Another weird thing with cat is that it's REALLY active when taken orally - if you eat like 300mg you will have lots of energy and even some mild euphoria..

 

[zorn]

There is no way we smoked more than 50mg each, and I would put it more like 20mg... and we smoked more than we needed to feel it. Wasn't that fun -- hell even Ritalin was better -- but enough to get jittery and overstimmed.
Research seems to suggest that 20mg is a good dose too, ED50=0.19mg/kg ip in rat[1], ED50=0.37mg/kg in rat[2]. Couldn't find human figures, but the chemist from the Site That Cannot Be Named backs that it is about as potent as methamphetamine.... which would mean a dose of about 20mg is right.
[1] R. Young, Richard A. Glennon. Discriminative stimulus effects of S(-)-methcathinone (CAT): a potent stimulant drug of abuse.
Psychopharmacology 140:250-256 (199 8)
[2] Goldstone MS. 'Cat': methcathinone--a new drug of abuse.
JAMA. 1993 May 19;269(19):2508

 

[PhreeX]

Huh? Cat is no where near as potent as meth.. why don't you think you see it? It's horribly weak, I mean, I found that you needed to rail AT LEAST 300mg to get a decent buzz - of course this wasn't a problem when you consider you can make a gram for about $1 ..

 

[zorn]

No, I said "potency," meaning the amount of drug necessary to obtain a prescribed effect (in this case be being stimmed), NOT how good or pleasant the drug is! Roughly equal potencies mean that, say, 10mg cat will increase heart rate, motor activity, whatever, just as will 10mg meth; and you would probably aim to consume about the same amount of each substance, maybe 20-50mg here. It does not mean they are equally fun or you can get equally high off them. Cmon I thought you knew this man.
Remember I found a couple hundred milligrams of the crystals snorted did shit, too... just smoking a lot less worked. If you don't believe me, go check out R******'s site; I am sure you will admit he knows what the fuck he is talking about.
Anyways, this is irrevelant; I don't give a damn about cat, that shit sucks. The point is, has anyone had similar experiences snorting big crystals of methamphetamine and finding them far less potent than when crushed? Has anyone had experiences to the contrary? It would set my mind at rest to get this theory verified... and maybe it would help quale decide whether his newfound dealer jacked him or not.

 

[starlightgemini]

one of the first few times i did meth (well, the first time i was in charge of setting up my own line) i, for some reason, decided i didn't need to crush it up. not a good idea when i had pretty big shards to work with. that, and i did a bit much...i mean, gimme a break, i had no idea what the fuck i was doing!! to make a long story short--SEVERE burning (in the nose), MASSIVE nosebleeding and puking soon followed. learned my lesson though, i crushed my shit up like a good girl from that day forward
*** starlight ***

 

[dpuff]

what does this mean ----> "but enough to get jittery and overstimmed." ???
=)

 

[zorn]

dpuff - I hope you're not joking cause I can't tell. I was unable to sit still, couldn't pay attention to anything for more than five seconds... kinda like a temporary case of ADD.
starlight - You remember if it did as much as it was supposed to, eg as much as if you had ground it up?

 

[Deus121]

Back at the tweaker pad...There was this kid that would give new comers a free QG of meth. The only condition is they had to do a "chunky" line. A line of uncrushed shard. It didn't hit them obviously until it all got into their stomach. But it was fun to watch the kids faces as they snorted all those shards. You need to crush it!!! The rocks don't disolve all that fast! If its not crushed its gonna just roll back into your stomach. Try putting some in a spoon and putting water over it to load a rig. You will notice they just kinda sit in the water, until you crush them and stir it around with the cap of your rig.

 

[PhreeX]

Deus is correct - if you snort large chunks it will have the effect of NOT hitting as hard, in turn, you may think it was cut or is weak (as was the case with you) ..