-
The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
Posting Rules Bluelight Rules Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines Bereavement Mindfulness Suicide Support Anger Management -
TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android
Psychiatry - a pseudoscience that simply shouldn't exist in today's modern world.
- Thread starter Bavanai
- Start date
Draigan
Ex-Bluelighter
I guess it depends if they earn it? It would be hard not to get manipulated. The only way it would work imo is if everything outside of Love Island was even fuckin better!
pofacedhoe
Bluelight Crew
its about making money- hence the wide variety of conditions (female sexual dysfunction anybody?)= more markets= more drugs=more patents=more bucks
there was show on tv (in uk) recently where a consultant came on telly and said that medicine and the pharamceutical companies have shifted away from treating acute diseases to creating drugs to "prevent" disease, thus more patients take them fro longer hence more money e.g. statins
its a phalic sea
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Bavanai
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2007
- Messages
- 645
Damn, forgot about this thread, gonna answer to the replies I got on first page.
From the age of 12? No wonder you're so brainwashed... Question: how do the people that don't have access to ssris, shrinks, diagnoses or any other of this shit LIVE? How? Explain to me. Why don't they need the meds just like you? How come humankind lived tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years without them, now that they were invented, suddenly people need them? Can you sincerely think critically about some hunter-gatherer tribe in the Amazon having problems with a kid cutting himself with sharp bones asking for his pills? Damn, I get so sad when I see shrinks convincing rational, normal people that they're sick. Worked on me too, but not for long.
In my "3rd world country" 20 years ago nobody ever heard or had these "disorders". ADHD, borderline, bipolar... They didn't exist. Once the commercial for ADHD appeard on TV and brochures were presented to schools suddenly we started having the first "sufferers". ADHD is another shrink-gem. A child hyperactive and that doesn't respect authority? Oh noes that's MENTAL ILLNESS, not NORMAL child behaviour. Drug him with powerful stimulants!
Lemme tell you something. If you didn't read about borderline on wikipedia you wouldn't even know you "had" it.
I suggest to the shrink community to rename Borderline Personality Disorder to "adolescence'.
@Captain.Heroin - don't know what you are talking about ketamine, I did do ketamine for a while but stopped more than a year ago, it was enough to see a couple of k-fiends how they live and act to not want to touch that shit ever again. I'd take one day of conversing with a tweaker over 1 hour in the same room with a ketamine addict ANYTIME. They're just too sad and depressing.
I know most people won't take this seriously, I mean, coming on BL saying disorders don't exist is like going to kindergarten telling the kids Santa doesn't exist. But I tried.
So let me get this straight. You are offended by me calling depression a natural state of mind but you don't see anything wrong with offending my country as a "third world country"? Ain't you a hypocrite...
From the age of 12? No wonder you're so brainwashed... Question: how do the people that don't have access to ssris, shrinks, diagnoses or any other of this shit LIVE? How? Explain to me. Why don't they need the meds just like you? How come humankind lived tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years without them, now that they were invented, suddenly people need them? Can you sincerely think critically about some hunter-gatherer tribe in the Amazon having problems with a kid cutting himself with sharp bones asking for his pills? Damn, I get so sad when I see shrinks convincing rational, normal people that they're sick. Worked on me too, but not for long.
In my "3rd world country" 20 years ago nobody ever heard or had these "disorders". ADHD, borderline, bipolar... They didn't exist. Once the commercial for ADHD appeard on TV and brochures were presented to schools suddenly we started having the first "sufferers". ADHD is another shrink-gem. A child hyperactive and that doesn't respect authority? Oh noes that's MENTAL ILLNESS, not NORMAL child behaviour. Drug him with powerful stimulants!
Lemme tell you something. If you didn't read about borderline on wikipedia you wouldn't even know you "had" it.
Again, I had the same symptoms. Impulsivity, chaotic relationships, suicide ideation and threats, self-cutting. I can show you pictures with the cuttings. All symptoms, as I said in my previous posts. I got cured by growing the f..k up and accepting that I've been lying to myself, ofc it was easier for me to accept that I was "ill" than to accept that I'm acting like an emo teenager. I'm 21 now, I can't act like a frustrated teenager forever.
I suggest to the shrink community to rename Borderline Personality Disorder to "adolescence'.
@Captain.Heroin - don't know what you are talking about ketamine, I did do ketamine for a while but stopped more than a year ago, it was enough to see a couple of k-fiends how they live and act to not want to touch that shit ever again. I'd take one day of conversing with a tweaker over 1 hour in the same room with a ketamine addict ANYTIME. They're just too sad and depressing.
I know most people won't take this seriously, I mean, coming on BL saying disorders don't exist is like going to kindergarten telling the kids Santa doesn't exist. But I tried.
Last edited:
Draigan
Ex-Bluelighter
its about making money- hence the wide variety of conditions (female sexual dysfunction anybody?)= more markets= more drugs=more patents=more bucks
there was show on tv (in uk) recently where a consultant came on telly and said that medicine and the pharamceutical companies have shifted away from treating acute diseases to creating drugs to "prevent" disease, thus more patients take them fro longer hence more money e.g. statins
its a phalic sea
uhu... So cuz its british its more intelligent right? I guess all psychiatrists are cold hearted money grubbing psychopaths. Psychiotropaths even! I mean, according to your statement "its about making money." Bro psychiatrists dont even get more money for prescribing drugs. Not in Canada anyway... I also have never heard of this preventive mental illness thing you speak of. So let me get this straight? We have drugs that now prevent the possibility of depression? So we should all just hop on?
And dat my friend is why telly is for tubbys
Bavanai - No!! Let me tell you something! I am the true hypocrite here. If there is someone you must punish with your judgements, let it be me.
No fo reals though. U make a pretty good point in the sense that I can relate to it, but u dont make a good point in the sense that just because "growing the fuck up" worked for you, doesnt mean it works for everybody. Some people have tr.ied growing the fuck up in the exact same way u did and they couldnt get over their depression still.
Typical subjective error. Be gone with you! lol
jk
Last edited:
evidence that psychiatrists do harm? ever heard of google? as for whether they do more harm than good, that is subjective and, as i said, it is just my opinion.
your point being? maybe it should happen more often. but it's not as easy to sue a psychiatrist and win as you make it out to be, especially when it can be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt your problems are due to treatment and not your disorder. and what about all the cases where people are harmed but not necessarily enough to sue?
psychiatrists prescribe drugs that have been approved by a system with poor standards for safety and efficacy.
i said it was my opinion. i took issue with your statement regarding the cause of depression because you made it seem like it was accepted fact. i never said it was a fact that psychiatrists do more harm than good, it's merely an opinion and it's based on the treatment paradigm i see outplayed over and over with many clear cases of serious life altering harm being done combined with lack of evidence of long term benefit.
i should make it clear that i don't think taking psychiatric drugs long term is a good solution to mental health problems. these drugs are known to cause harm, they confound the problem (because after a certain period of time, it can become difficult to tell which problems are your own and which are affects of the drug) and their long term efficacy is often questionable. in addition, i believe psychiatric diagnoses can be hand waving since rarely is there a biological test for supposedly biologically based mental disorders. i also think psychiatric drugs are too frequently prescribed as a first line of treatment. i see a psychiatrist's job as to bring a patient to a higher level of mental health and in general terms, i don't think psychiatric drugs accomplish this. taking a whole bunch of toxic drugs every day that mask your symptoms and make you FEEL better, is not my idea of health. it doesn’t solve the underlying issues that give rise to the symptoms in the first place.
Last edited by a moderator:
Being depressed is a normal state of mind - agreed. You said you lost your girlfriend. To be depressed about that is normal. That is not the same as Depression.
For context, btw, which "third world country" do you live in?
Lack of empathy noted. Sweet P is clearly a gullible idiot that has no understanding of herself. 8)
They don't live. They die, through suicide or misadventure. or are murdered as being demonically possessed. Or they have miserable lives. Or they aren't that sick and manage to muddle along.
LOL @ cutting yourself is rational and normal.
I don't think an Amazonian kid would behave this way anyway, because their society would be much closer and stronger than in the West. I suspect a lot of mental illness and anguish is kindled by familial and social problems.
Yes they did.
I think you're ranting, and that's making me suspicious of your judgment, If it wasn't for that, I'd probably agree with you on this point.
That is not for you to judge. You have no basis for saying that to ANYBODY without knowing their history or what they have been through. Just because an individual doesn't know the fancy name for something doesn't mean they don't suspect something is wrong.
Maybe you didn't have it. Maybe you did, and it wasn't that severe. Maybe you did and you've gone into remission. Maybe you've cured yourself through your strength. Your diagnosis and the quality of the care you personally received, though, has NOTHING to do with what other people go through though. YMMV.
BTW, what recreational drugs were you taking at the time of this "adventure"
in your life, and how much? Did they have a negative role to play?First of all you should give people more credit. I for one am not a Kindergartner.
Secondly, you are saying disorders don't exist as though you are correct. The problem is, you're not.
Last edited:
Draigan
Ex-Bluelighter
Nothing so freaking large in such a small amount of time could ever be precise. Stop the character assassination/mockery. Its not constructive...
Last edited:
What are you talking about???
Draigan
Ex-Bluelighter
Sigh lol I'm really tired. I'm talking about exactly what I said.... Its all there bro! It can be like an easter egg hunt.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
Being sarcastic alone doesn't constitute being a hypocrite. 8)
If you learned THC is the cure to cancer, would you utilize it?
Just because mankind hasn't yet (outside of MMJ states), does this mean we don't need it because we lived for eons without it?
Any medicinal benefit to a human being is a step forward for everyone. Many people committed suicide long ago, FYI. There may be a lower suicide rate because we have many acceptable treatments for depression (SSRI's is not one of them that I'm thinking of).
You're blowing this out of proportion. A lot of people have ADD and ADHD, though it is known to be overdiagnosed. I'm not going to say it isn't.
It's often the parent who wants to put the children on pills and not the doctor though, the parent brings the child to the doctor and they get to dictate what the child takes...how can you blame psychiatrists for this? They don't victimize families by mandating people take pills...
You're ignorant, please discontinue discussing this subject with us.
If a doctor didn't tell you "you have cancer" how else would you know? Because every tumor is as obvious as skin cancer? I don't believe you're qualified to say something like this.
Hooray for you! You didn't need intense psychotherapy or to be on medications long term! Not everyone's like you!
We're convinced you don't have psychiatric disorders, we don't really care though. People who have mental disorders outside of personality disorders are very aware they have a problem, and they actively seek help for it.
Just because you were misdiagnosed doesn't mean everyone else was too.
That's the government's fault, NOT psychiatrists.
Do you begin to see the government as the source of these problems? Hopefully you should.
That's just not true. There's often tests or scans for biologically based psychiatric conditions. They are often done in hospitals, and not in the office of a psychiatrist. They would likely refer you to a hospital for testing.
People seek out psychiatrists to get drugs. A lot of them are already seeking a first line of treatment as therapy, and are using medication as an adjunct.
Last edited:
Nah I'm not interested in any Easter Eggs. I've found and eaten farr too many already. I'm also not meaning to be rude or harsh. OP is, however, coming across like that time Tom Cruise was hopping on Oprah's couch a few years ago.
In addition, this is TDS, not The Lounge, so I am expecting some level of thoughtfulness and empathy in the posts.
Argument I'm hearing come through all of this is that if you are prescribed crazymeds and take them, you are (a) being ripped off and (b) gullible; and (c) psychiatry has no basis in fact/science. I've got a serious problem with these lines of thinking.
In addition, this is TDS, not The Lounge, so I am expecting some level of thoughtfulness and empathy in the posts.
Argument I'm hearing come through all of this is that if you are prescribed crazymeds and take them, you are (a) being ripped off and (b) gullible; and (c) psychiatry has no basis in fact/science. I've got a serious problem with these lines of thinking.
Draigan
Ex-Bluelighter
Like I said before man, I agree. So what we still doing here? lol
yeah, the government and FDA should bare a lot of the blame. it's a shame that more of the public isn't aware that the FDA is full of shit.
Diagnosis
Diagnosis is based on the self-reported experiences of an individual as well as abnormalities in behavior reported by family members, friends or co-workers, followed by secondary signs observed by a psychiatrist, nurse, social worker, clinical psychologist or other clinician in a clinical assessment. There are lists of criteria for someone to be so diagnosed. These depend on both the presence and duration of certain signs and symptoms. Assessment is usually done on an outpatient basis; admission to an inpatient facility is considered if there is a risk to oneself or others. The most widely used criteria for diagnosing bipolar disorder are from the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the current version being DSM-IV-TR, and the World Health Organization's International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, currently the ICD-10. The latter criteria are typically used in Europe and other regions while the DSM criteria are used in the USA and other regions, as well as prevailing in research studies.
An initial assessment may include a physical exam by a physician. Although there are no biological tests which confirm bipolar disorder, tests may be carried out to exclude medical illnesses such as hypo- or hyperthyroidism, metabolic disturbance, a systemic infection or chronic disease, and syphilis or HIV infection. An EEG may be used to exclude epilepsy, and a CT scan of the head to exclude brain lesions. Investigations are not generally repeated for relapse unless there is a specific medical indication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar
A diagnostic assessment may be conducted by a general practitioner, or by a psychiatrist or psychologist,[1] who records the person's current circumstances, biographical history and current symptoms, and a family medical history to see if other family members have suffered from a mood disorder, and discusses the person's alcohol and drug use. The assessment also includes a mental state examination, which is an assessment of the person's current mood and thought content, in particular the presence of themes of hopelessness or pessimism, self-harm or suicide, and an absence of positive thoughts or plans.[1] Specialist mental health services are rare in rural areas, and thus diagnosis and management is largely left to primary care clinicians.[85] This issue is even more marked in developing countries.[86] The score on a rating scale alone is not sufficient to diagnose depression, but it provides an indication of the severity of symptoms for a time period, so a person who scores above a given cut-off point can be more thoroughly evaluated for a depressive disorder diagnosis.[87] Several rating scales are used for this purpose.[87] Screening programs have been advocated to improve detection of depression, but there is evidence that they do not improve detection rates, treatment, or outcome.[88]
Primary care physicians and other non-psychiatrist physicians have difficulty diagnosing depression. Non-psychiatrists miss two-thirds of cases and unnecessarily treat other patients.[89][90]
Before diagnosing a major depressive disorder, a doctor generally performs a medical examination and selected investigations to rule out other causes of symptoms. These include blood tests measuring TSH and thyroxine to exclude hypothyroidism; basic electrolytes and serum calcium to rule out a metabolic disturbance; and a full blood count including ESR to rule out a systemic infection or chronic disease.[91] Adverse affective reactions to medications or alcohol misuse are often ruled out, as well. Testosterone levels may be evaluated to diagnose hypogonadism, a cause of depression in men.[92]
Subjective cognitive complaints appear in older depressed people, but they can also be indicative of the onset of a dementing disorder, such as Alzheimer's disease.[93][94] Cognitive testing and brain imaging can help distinguish depression from dementia.[95] A CT scan can exclude brain pathology in those with psychotic, rapid-onset or otherwise unusual symptoms.[96] No biological tests confirm major depression.[97] Investigations are not generally repeated for a subsequent episode unless there is a medical indication.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder
The social construct theory of ADHD rejects the dominant medical opinion that ADHD has a distinct pathophysiology and genetic components.
Currently, the pathophysiology of ADHD is unclear; although research has found evidence of differences in the brain between ADHD and non-ADHD patients.[13][14][15][16][17][18] Critics, such as Jonathan Leo and David Cohen who reject the characterization of ADHD as a disorder, contend that the controls for stimulant medication usage were inadequate in some lobar volumetric studies which makes it impossible to determine whether ADHD itself or psychotropic medication used to treat ADHD is responsible for decreased thickness observed[19] in certain brain regions.[20][21] They believe many neuroimaging studies are oversimplified in both popular and scientific discourse and given undue weight despite deficiencies in experimental methodology.[20]
Although ADHD is said to be highly heritable and twin studies suggest genetics are a factor in about 75% of ADHD cases,[22] some nevertheless question the genetic connection. Dr. Joseph Glenmullen states, "no claim of a gene for a psychiatric condition has stood the test of time, in spite of popular misinformation. Although many theories exist, there is no definitive biological, neurological, or genetic etiology for 'mental illness'."[23] His critics argue that ADHD is a heterogeneous disorder[22] caused by a complex interaction of genetic and environmental factors and thus cannot be modeled accurately using the single gene theory. Authors of a review of ADHD etiology have noted: "Although several genome-wide searches have identified chromosomal regions that are predicted to contain genes that contribute to ADHD susceptibility, to date no single gene with a major contribution to ADHD has been identified."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_construct_theory_of_ADHD
ok, i'll give you that. i'm not saying the public isn't to blame [in large part] for the mass comsumption of psych drugs in society today but that doesn't change how i feel about the other points i made.
ocean
Bluelight Crew
While I do agree that people are overmedicated at times.....and that there are many instances where people are labeled as having a disorder when they do not- I do not write off Psychiatry, at all.
Some people truly need medication in order to live a better life.
Bavanai mentioned children being prescribed.....there is a part of me that thinks there should be an age limit on medication- I think children and teenagers go through all sorts of mental and hormonal changes that should discount any behaviors that are off.
God knows I was an unruly child......
I also think drug testing should be done before medication is prescribed.
Sometimes people like to leave out the fact that they are on drugs or have taken drugs within a period of time- drugs will strongly effect your moods and reactions to things- Why be prescribed something you may not need.......?
Honesty is key to benefitting your emotional/mental well being.
And....the FDA.....oh man, the stories I have read.
I think more people have mental disorders now than in the past (though there definitely have been mental disorders as long as people have been alive, I imagine!)
The changes in food (in the 1950's when many additives and preservatives were put into foods) I think really changed brain function and brought on a number of depressive disorders...... and the FDA does nothing. An entirely different topic, but goes along with some of what was said in this thread thus far.......
Some people truly need medication in order to live a better life.
Bavanai mentioned children being prescribed.....there is a part of me that thinks there should be an age limit on medication- I think children and teenagers go through all sorts of mental and hormonal changes that should discount any behaviors that are off.
God knows I was an unruly child......
I also think drug testing should be done before medication is prescribed.
Sometimes people like to leave out the fact that they are on drugs or have taken drugs within a period of time- drugs will strongly effect your moods and reactions to things- Why be prescribed something you may not need.......?
Honesty is key to benefitting your emotional/mental well being.
And....the FDA.....oh man, the stories I have read.
I think more people have mental disorders now than in the past (though there definitely have been mental disorders as long as people have been alive, I imagine!)
The changes in food (in the 1950's when many additives and preservatives were put into foods) I think really changed brain function and brought on a number of depressive disorders...... and the FDA does nothing. An entirely different topic, but goes along with some of what was said in this thread thus far.......
Mariposa
Bluelight Crew
The standard in a civil case in the US (and yes, I well realize not everyone is American, but many legal systems are based on British common law) is preponderance of the evidence. Basically, that means that it is more likely that the defendant is liable rather than not liable. If you wish to quantify this in percentages, think of it as 51/49% in favor of the defendant (the psych) being liable. An award is then issued to the plaintiff (the person who filed suit against the psych) according to the degree of (provable) damage.
Medical malpractice matters are tried in civil court in the US unless there is blatant criminality (see Michael Jackson's doc for an example) if tried at all. I'd estimate 90% settle, but that is my layperson's estimate.
Please do not make the mistake of attributing incorrect jurisdictional standards.
Cane2theLeft
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2008
- Messages
- 12,673
Of course I can google and find individual abuses, something I never disagreed with. My qualms were with the broad statement that it was endemic or that more harm than good was being done... I don't see where opinion comes into it, either they do more harm and this can be demonstrated or they don't. If you can't demonstrate it then what is your view based on?
I really hope you don't base your views of such large issues on individual examples or personal experience, these are often misleading and not representative.
@Captain.Heroin
Your point-counterpoint was absolutely spot on. I'm glad we have people around who thoroughly go through and address everything being said. I think it really does add to the discourse.
@bavanai
I'm studying addictions counseling so I've read the DSM-IV-TR as well as many psych textbooks, although I am far from a certified professional or in possession of advanced degrees. If you had the symptoms of BPD and you 'grew out of them' then you didn't have BPD.
What separates the personality disorders from the mood disorders (like depression for example) is that they are persistent and respond very poorly to conventional treatment (or in your case, simple maturation was sufficient if your account is accurate).
There are plenty of examples where professionals misdiagnose grossly and from everything you said, it sounds like you were very mistreated and that their "treatment" for you actually exacerbated your situation/condition. This is abhorrent and should never be seen in mental health care. With that said, its a bit much to make the leap that all psychiatry is pseudoscience because of your poor experience. If you are going to inductively draw conclusions based on your experience, you could easily make the opposite case based on just the people in this thread whose lives were greatly improved through psychiatry.
In my experience psych doctors basically sell drugs. You find the right one and off to the races. I have never used psychs but for drug use. Went from a long term on street drugs to pharmy drugs and sat there stoned for a long time, it just made things easier. For some reason the doctors office doesnt have the same allure of a shady street corner deal, and I am quite a nostalgic person.?
Pills-a-go-go... link
Phreex has a mention in that book, interesting but obvious.
I am sure people have been treating issues with smoke, herbs, cacti, obviously opium, heroin, coco, back to the land basics and thats what it still should be today but the money meatgrinder needs its fill. There are just too many problems and not enough fixes. IMO people should do what ever they feel they need to do. I dont have a problem with much of it.
Peace,
Seedless
Pills-a-go-go... link
Phreex has a mention in that book, interesting but obvious.
I am sure people have been treating issues with smoke, herbs, cacti, obviously opium, heroin, coco, back to the land basics and thats what it still should be today but the money meatgrinder needs its fill. There are just too many problems and not enough fixes. IMO people should do what ever they feel they need to do. I dont have a problem with much of it.
Peace,
Seedless
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
We can certainly agree on that, the FDA and the DEA would be better not existing at all. The United States would be better because of it.
You're right, some of these mental diseases have no way of physiologically diagnosing. There's a lot of mental disorders and not all of them are like that.
I think if psychiatrists weren't restricted by the unnecessary drug prohibition laws, this country would be a lot better, and most psychiatrists would be able to help people out a lot more. Most doctors also wouldn't be horribly misinformed (hopefully, they are now).
I think the problem strictly lies within the government, and not psychiatrists or psychologists as a whole.
You may find individuals who shouldn't be psychiatrists, psychologists, GP's, anesthesiologists, and many other health professionals. Please don't let them represent the whole community.