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Psychedelics & soldiers or warriors

gymstud

gymstud

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Meth amphetamine was made to make a super soldier
Could psychedlics help with this
 
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IMO psychedelics would not be useful in the heat of battle.

At all.

EDIT: I'm sorry but it's really bugging me; it's soldier
 
It's a horrible idea, I don't know why anyone would even think of suggesting this. The concept of a "soldier" is demented enough, but using the healing compounds we know as 'psychedelics' in order to reprogram a human being to carry out acts of violence on others is completely disgusting.

The armed forces have indeed experimented with psychedelics, but they found it useless. There's clips of it on youtube. You can search there yourself if you are interested.

Let's not go down this road.
 
Maybe if they made them go through stressful situations while on psychedelics in training they could be more prepared for bad situations?
 
I know its probably just a rumour and there is no truth to it, i think ive read somewere that theres no truth to it actually I cant remember but, the vikings used to take fly agaric mushrooms before battle to enter something called a 'berzerker frenzy'. I dont think this question is stupid, its interesting and you probably could do something with the idea. I mean imagine back when there was vikings around, war was a different thing it was survival not just getting oil + money etc. So I could see them being used in this context but not modern day.
 
There is a film on a very similar subject IIRC. It's to do with supernatural powers but I'm sure the main trainer guy only believes the shit because he tripped too much xD

'The Men Who Stare At Goats'. Brilliant viewing imo.
 
I would think psychedelics could be used to strengthen Warrior Spirit only when the challenge is real & personal. Then maybe it'd give them power to calm attackers, if not they'd probably want to hug them until they didn't want to attack anymore or would die w/ open arms. <3
 
Well, I've read that the indigenous Shuar people would drink ayahuasca in preparation for war. So they'd trip balls until they were worked up enough to go over to a rival household they were beefin' with and bash in some skulls. Then they'd take the women and girls as wives (or just rape and slaughter them) and lop off the heads of the vanquished males as trophies (mods, can we add this to the "Things to do while tripping" thread?). If anyone thinks that the psychedelic experience is somehow innately and indelibly peaceful and compassionate, take it up with the blood thirsty headshrinking savages that had a hand in inventing the most powerful psychedelic drink on the planet.

Pschodelic soldours!! Fuck yeah.
 
Yah, psychedelics just amplify the mental set, any state could be heightened, including war.
Think of a bad freak out you've seen.
Or dissociative intensity.
 
Just because you can use the mind-manifesting potential of psychedelics to elicit that state, doesn't mean that you should. It's not the compounds that are "innately and indelibly peaceful and compassionate", it's human beings who are innately peaceful and compassionate at the highest level of our being. We may be animals with savage tendencies, but everything ultimately comes from a place of love.

Indulging ourselves in negativity and violence by using drugs can only lead to pure misery. Psychedelics can allow you to indulge the blindly demented and destructive aspects of your psyche, and they can equally allow you to move beyond that and bring about the insightful, harmonious, and blissful states of unconditional love. It's up to you what you do with the power they give to your mind. But what are you gonna choose? You're a pretty fucked up person if you choose to indulge in negativity and violence, when you have the choice to do the opposite. And if you choose to do so, the only one who really suffers is you, since you create that karma for yourself.

I want to live in peace and love, not violence and hatred. The latter is miserable for all. Whereas love and happiness is all everyone really wants, no matter how deluded they are about their methods of trying to attain it.
 
There is a video to see online (you can search for it on youtube) of - I believe - British soldiers who are fed LSD. They become disinterested in following orders and maintaining proper composure for war situations and instead walk around laughing and hang from the trees. So if that answers your question, the answer would (again) be no.

I can only imagine a low dose of a psychedelic amphetamine to be nootropic to enhance clarity and rational thought but as the dosage increases to achieve this so do the psychedelic effects that at some point would interfere with proper judgement. I don't think any outfit would risk having the unpredictable consequences of tripping soldiers.

Of course, some indigeous cultures (as in: certain non-First World tribes and the like) would not entirely agree with all of this. Some of these cultures still exist today like some Amazonian tribes in South America for example, they consider ayahuasca (i.e. orally activated DMT and other plant alkaloids they use) to be of special importance in hunting because it makes them become 'one with nature' and see more clearly. We could argue about whether hallucinated elements are truly helpful but apparently they have learned to properly use it as a tool and it may possibly help with visual accuity.

Traditionally, the liquid was taken by men before going out to hunt, to put them in touch with the spirits of their prey.
Click to expand...
(http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/111230/ayahuasca-amazon-drug-trip)

Psilocybin which is found in magic mushrooms is also known to enhance visual accuity. Again, at full doses one would expect the trip to negate the possible benefits of this in practical application since psychedelic effects could (or probably would) become distracting. But at lower doses it may be possible to

Peyote, a mescaline-containing cactus is a part of cultural use for hunting purposes as well:

The Tarahumara Indians consume small amounts of peyote to combat hunger, thirst and exhaustion especially while hunting. They have been known to run for days after a Deer with no food, water or rest.
Click to expand...
(http://www.erowid.org/plants/peyote/peyote_cactus_guide.shtml)

Amanita mushrooms, quite different from 'magic mushrooms' and having many side-effects that I would consider quite heavy, have also been used historically by Berserkers. I am not sure how much evidence there actually is for this but they were apparently notorious warriors who would become enraged before battle, it is said by consuming psychoactives like Amanitas. This would produce a delerium-like trance state that would allow them to rage on, hard and for a long period.

One could argue that these historical uses of psychedelics or hallucinogens are imperfect and that despite the endurance some may provide the mental effects can very well be counterproductive to clear thinking in battle. Such cultures may simply select the psychoactives they do because no tools that are more selective in effect are or were available. On the other hand, what is 'clear thinking' can be seen as an equally modern principle. Modern warfare is more organised and psychoactives to aid this would have to support this. "Ancient" warfare may (I guess) often considered much more simple in strategy and straight-forward full-on attack mode. Whether such strategies are adapted to the nature of the warrior's/soldier's inebriation (as a direct result of the particular effects of the psychoactives used) or the other way around is a good question and this probably differs per culture and per drug.

The thread-starter is welcome to indicate his question is answered by the posts thus far, and everyone here is welcome to elaborate on the discussion or just the opposite of that.

*OP was edited for spelling and the thread title is formulated in a more transparant way
 
Great post Solipsis. I think the idea you put forth about those psychoactives being somewhat imperfect for the task is a good one. In the nuclear age we have a great knowledge of chemistry and psychopharmacology, and we are able to pick the right tools for the job, whether that be long focused stimulation, or unfocused psychedelic exploration, or mindless sedation. But when it comes to living in the wild, I think these cultures just make do with what they've got for the situation. Ayahuasca is always touted as a cure-all medicine, yet we know with modern knowledge that it is quite specific in its effects. Still, DMT, mescaline, and psilocybin all provide extended stimulation and visual accuity, so they may have been used for these purposes in spite of the contrary effects. Like you said, it seems that the psychological effects are actually a hinderance to states like hunting and fighting rather than helping it.

I'd also like to add to my above post in that I believe serotonin psychedelics and empathogens in general do naturally elicit feelings of love, well-being and empathy. I know that when serotonin levels in my brain are low, I feel depressed, snappy, irritable, and angry, blaming the external world for my bad feelings. When my serotonin levels are high I feel content, empathic, loving, and euphoric and connected with the world and myself. Thus it's pretty obvious that most psychedelics and serotonin releasers naturally produce these feelings. You'd have to work pretty hard against the grain to turn that around in to negative emotions.

And I think that the military recognized these aspects of psychedelics a long time ago, and that is why they abandoned them. If they allowed you to go in to bezerker rages, then obviously the armed forces would have a whole lot more interest in them, but they don't. Instead, they use amphetamines, which cause you to narrow your focus to tunnel-like vision.
 
When I first clicked here, I thought we'd be talking about solder haha. Like metallurgy.
 
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