Psychedelics and enlightenment.

[folding_space]

Everyone is already enlightened all the time. If you need psychedelics to help you realize this, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine as well.

As for people being misled by psychedelics, I don't think this is any different than being misled by a sober experience. Thoughtfulness and mindfulness are just as essential to understanding what happens to you on psychedelics as they are to understanding daily life.

BTW, thanks for starting this topic. I'd love to see more discussions like this on Bluelight.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I believe there are many ways of finding yourself apart from psychedelics.

Certainly, certainly. Different strokes for different folks.

I wonder if this type of thinking really helps you in life. Eventually when it comes down to it you pay you're taxes, go to work every day, so on a basic level you ARE part of this society.

Finding meaningfullness can certainly help if you're in a state of existential crisis, or discrepancy between your life experience and the collectively endorsed yardstick are making you miserable.

And like I said, society is a symbol, not a thing, it is a conflation of many patterns and phenomena. Do I deny that I spend currency on goods and services in the geographic bounds of USA, California, LA county, city of x; that I have been influenced by the language and cultural memes present there; that despite my ability to do what I like I will be judged by laws here? I deny none of it. But I certainly do not buy into ideas that I have some forced-identity, or obligation to any of the symbols and institutions and arbitrary grouping of persons, or belief sets, or materialist bullshit that is shoved down your throat as a real and present part of your person.

I am. That is all. Everything else is just a narrative created by all those psychosomatic existences which are persons, it can't get at the inviolable and ever present pneuma.

 

[OTGee]

I have to say psychedelics have probably merely confused me more but I am still searching for whatever this 'enlightened' thing is.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I have to say psychedelics have probably merely confused me more but I am still searching for whatever this 'enlightened' thing is.

It is no thing. Just another symbol, no definite existence. If you must seek, seek to know yourself, more truly, and work towards the goal of being able to live earnestly. What else could you need to look for?

 

[OTGee]

"Enlightened" is when everyone thinks that you are insane - yet you know that they are. And you know that you are.

Then I guess I am already enlightened haha, oh well. Maybe I was thinking of it in a more romantic sense but I think that one day I will be enlightened, just I am not know as all psychedelics have made me done is ask more questions. Enlightened just seems to be peoples term for giving up 'the search', its not a specific search or even searching for something. Just the search for whatever the psych experience, the life experience, any experience is. Searching for yourself and others around you, searching for any kind of meaning in things. I can't see this cycle ever ending but maybe at some point I will not care a much for the answers.

 

[eye_wide_open]

You have to be open minded and willing to receive the power of observation.
You may never get it, it may come to you in your sleep, one day while walking around or one night high as hell.

Before I had the observation I would have said you are all crazy too if you told me this.

I can't help when people refuse to understand this scenario.
It's not exactly explainable. It happens when it is ready. None of you can force it and none of you will believe it until it happens to you yourself.

When it happens, YOU KNOW it happens.

It took me 15 years of hallucinogens to finally get it myself. I had no idea what it was at the time it happened. Until it told me.

 

[eye_wide_open]

I think gaining the power of observation has something to do with near death experiences also or put of body experiences.
Somewhere while out of body is when this third eye thing came to me. Lol it's almost like some sort of sick joke but I can assure you I'm not joking around... And I expect you to think I am crazy. Any "normalized" person should/would.
For those who can see outside the box there is the power of observation waiting for you.


You can't look for it. It will find you. Just know its there and don't close your mind to the possibility. Keep being you an go with your true gut feelings. Don't be a fake person. Go with what you KNOW is right.

You guys have always felt there is something more out there for you for a reason!
There is!

 

[eye_wide_open]

All I'll say is I have tripped hundreds of times and I've had one experience that stands out from them all. Just because you have yet to have such an experience that complete destroys your materialist world view does not mean others have not. It is possible to completely transcend duality, but it is not something you can explain to someone, it has to be experienced as language is completely incapable of describing such an event.

This!
(sorry for multiple posts I'm on a phone)

 

[eye_wide_open]

Nobody knows where you are - how near or how far
Language creates your reality - reality is created with words
wave-particle duality - written and spoken words
I can see the box from outside - I can see the box from inside
I am blessed with sound and vision - You are blessed with sound and vision
Do you see what I am saying? - I am saying that I can see - that you can see
That we can see

It's you! You're back! I think?!
Now I recognize you.


You're my friendly cracked out dmt seeing brother.
I think I'm not sure yet. I had one but I gave up on him once when I failed to comprehend his ramblings about his family.

 

[eye_wide_open]

Then I guess I am already enlightened haha, oh well. Maybe I was thinking of it in a more romantic sense but I think that one day I will be enlightened, just I am not know as all psychedelics have made me done is ask more questions. Enlightened just seems to be peoples term for giving up 'the search', its not a specific search or even searching for something. Just the search for whatever the psych experience, the life experience, any experience is. Searching for yourself and others around you, searching for any kind of meaning in things. I can't see this cycle ever ending but maybe at some point I will not care a much for the answers.

The reason people give up the search when you become enlightened is because you beging to "know" without searching.
Hehe


All it takes is for you guys to believe all the lies.
You don't even need drugs to see it.

 

[rave_itsrealfun!!!]

They helped me realize that everything I once thought was real has turned out to be an illusion, and that I create my own reality. Really hit these ideas home. Without having taken tons of mushrooms, I believe I might be an entirely different individual who has little interest in spirituality. What is enlightenment? Well it took me 23 years to realize what it isn't, so it might take me another 23 years to realize what it is. I am lost but on my way.

So I think they can give you the option of putting yourself on the right track, but I'm unsure if continued use is productive. Which is why I choose to use them very moderately. And by the way, everyone else I know who has taken mushrooms or LSD has not changed in the ways that I have changed. They are no different, they don't always help awaken people. I think it's actually rare for them to have this effect and it takes a certain kind of mind. I know one other guy who is on the same path, and yep, you guessed it... he ate a lot of mushrooms beginning at a young age.

 

[eye_wide_open]

one brother became the sun - another brother became the moon
the sun turned against the moon - the moon turned against the sun
the cross is the sacred symbol - the cross is the center of understanding

mxe - dmt
we see more - when we don't see
eye - to - eye

My bad man that email addy was made up on the fly haha. I forgot what it was by now.
I couldn't tell it was you through all those shinanigans.

Too busy having to defend myself sayin I'm not crazy to "see" straight. :/

 

[dezz]

What you guys are saying kind of brings me back to my last trip about 3 months ago. You know the funny thing about that is I was wearing a fragnance at the time, and everytime I catch a hint of that scent when I put it on, it takes me right back in that certain mood. It's funny how your mind links stuff to experiences. If you guys get knowledge and enlightenment from psychedelics, all the more power to you. They have never done that sort of thing for me, no realizations which I wouldn't have gotten sober atleast. Maybe it's time for another journy in the unknown, someday... when I'm ready again. Perhaps my opinion will be changed.

 

[SONN]

I feel I was quite 'enlightened' by my first psychedelic trip, which was 1/8th oz of psilocybin mushrooms. Before that trip I was quite depressed with myself and my life. I felt like I was unlucky. I didn't like some things about myself.

When I ate those mushrooms, I lost my ego entirely. I felt myself just disintegrate into the patterns all around me and had fleeting thoughts of an existential nature and I was experiencing an incredible amount of euphoria. That's when I came to the realization that I'm not unlucky.
I'M INCREDIBLY LUCKY!!!! BEING ALIVE AND EXPERIENCING THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW IS THE GREATEST GIFT ANYONE COULD EVER ASK FOR!!

then that led to the conclusion that although the world is a terrible place, there is still genocide occuring in certain places on the planet and prison camps in north korea torture families for generations... but it was MEANT TO BE! it will all end well. there is a reason for everything.

Psychedelics also made me appreciate love so so much more

 

[SONN]

I forgot to mention, I cried tears of joy for like an hour after having that realization and since then I have cried tears of joy on almost every tryptamine trip i've had.

 

[Shifty38]

I think entering any psychedelic experience looking to take from the situation is really asking for trouble. You have to be prepared to give your all and let the substance take you where it wants to go. Whilst enjoying the general thrust of this debate, I have to say that it is important to remember balance. People use these substances for numerous reasons - some purely for fun - whilst others use them as a tool for self reflection, self improvement and such things. Personally, I take psychedelics because they are fun but also because of the insights they provide to me. I'm not sure I've had a strong enough experience to suggest these insights have attained a level akin to 'enlightenment,' yet tripping has helped me with so many aspects of my life - from personal to professional.

Thus, I'm not sure it is wise to question the conclusions of others. Everyone is an individual and utilises these substances for different reasons. For me, that is brilliant. That is why I use this forum, to engage with others and gain an increased understanding about psychedelics based on the differing values, morals, ethics and experiences of members. Again, I'm not sure there is a right or wrong way of utilising such things. All I will say is that anything approaching a polemic - regardless of the direction it goes - lacks balances and finesse and one must be exceptionally carefully with the language one uses.

 

[Ismene]

What do you mean by "enlightenment"? Can you point to a single human being on earth who is "enlightened"? Don't say the Dali Lama.

It's a meaningless term.

Psychedelics can give you profund emotional experiences far more powerful than any man-made religion. I think they're in a league of their own.

But the deal is you bring 50% and the psychedelics bring the other 50%. That's why peoples experiences are so different.

 

[Shifty38]

Psychedelic drugs will cause one to question one's own opinions. If one's opinions are so sacred, the individual is poorly adjusted to reality - where different cultures, races, and even different species of animal exist. Contrary to popular belief, human beings are animals, just as much as animals are animals. Humanity is not the guardian of the planet, humanity is the guardian of humanity.

Develop what you've said - I'm very interested

 

[OTGee]

I wasn't mocking enlightenment or anything dudes, I merely meant I was yet to have an experience that really stood out, sure everyone tries to persuade themselves with psych's that holy shit last night I spoke to this entity and now I understand it all but for most you can tell it is merely an elaboration. When it happens I know I will know, I would not even begin to call myself experienced and would say I have a lot longer maybe forever, to search. Who really wants to give up looking anyway? It might not even happen right away, it might take weeks or months slowly and slowly rising. What the fuck is it anyway? If anyone who was bog standard 'normal' were to even see this they would be like, pfft he is insane but I know most here will understand.

I am not talking about just through the use of psychedelic drugs, im just talking about life. Maybe it was life after psychedelics maybe it wasn't I cant remember but I do know theres still a lot more I have to find out.

 

[dezz]

Well I think there isn't much you can find about life then what little knowledge we do have. It's been thousands of years of existence and still humanity has no clue. I think the psychedelic "search" for knowledge other then personal issues are basically pointless. What I do know is that life without exception follows one rule: Seek pleasure/avoid pain. In the end that's what it comes down to, and I've made that my goal. Do what I want to do and what lifestyle suits ME best. Basically achieving goals and doing things that make me happy, on a basic level that's all there is to it.