Psychedelics and Depression and ADHD

[Choronzon333]

Anyone suffering from depression or who has. How do psychedelics, 5ht2a agonists in particular affect your depression? For me,they seem to have positive affects over all. I can be in the worst mood before I take shrooms say immediately before even or days before perhaps, and afterword I have a more positive outlook on life often even if I have a bad trip. In the immediate days following, I feel better emotionally and metally than from any anti depressent medication. It feels like my mind has been cleared and a burden lifted even if uncomfortable thoughts from deep in the subconcious come to the from of my mind. This was not always true as in the past if I didn't look at this in the right light it could really bother me. In the long run even things that bother me about the world, myself, life other people etc... even if they bother me, they do so in a different way. A way I better understand and can try to cope with in a positive way. I am afterglowing today from psilocin and I was feeling terrible before and even at times during the experience but now I feel relieved and better able to do the things I need to do in life.

How do others with depression feel psychs affect their short and long term symptons and their psyche?


Also, I have adhd. I was wondering in the long term how people feel their psyche use has affected theirs or how it might affect a persons adhd. I feel like it can help in a weird way with just allowing for otherways to understand things that make learning easier since often times I have diffficulty focusing or finding motivation(totally unrelated to any drug use as this has happened since I was a little kid). Is there any research as into how 5ht2a agonists affect adhd. they certainly don't make concentrating itself easier but they make information easier to comprehend, categorize and hold onto not just during an experience but afterwords.

What do you guys and gals think?

 

[greenmeanies]

well, i can't say i know what depression feels like

but i know psyches definitely help me to 'feel alive' even before i dose or after the trip is over. keep me noticing how little things affect my emotions and decisions. finding where there are external influences, and internal ones too.

 

[Choronzon333]

well, i can't say i know what depression feels like

but i know psyches definitely help me to 'feel alive' even before i dose or after the trip is over. keep me noticing how little things affect my emotions and decisions. finding where there are external influences, and internal ones too.

definately get that too. You can easily identify why you have become how you are. sometimes it can bother you if you let it. If you just understand that it IS... and let go, it is really helpful though. Most bad trips always start with tension and resistance. The difference between a truly "bad trip" and a difficult experience is how well you can let go. If you let go it is difficult and can be very unpleasant but is also enlightening and very beneficial. If you can come face to face and let go of pride, guilt, self loathing, and other egotistical emotions you can be cleansed in a way even if doing so is intensely painful. Replace guilt with empathy and understanding and the world is much easier to live in.
For me at least bad treaps come from a resistance to letting go. From being to egotistical, to attached to your made up idea of you, from closing off your mind and from trying to block out difficult thoughts like you do in day to day life. It rarely works.. Instead you torment and destroy yourself with you. It can be beneficial I guess but not nearly as beneficial as an unconditional submission and surrender of your ego. If you just breathe, relax, let go and deal with it what could be a tormenting bad trip turns into a difficult but cleansing introspective experience instead of a harsh bad trip where it begins to feel like reality is out to get you.

 

[osi]

I totally agree. I feel that psychadelics, especially shrooms, give people who are depressed a better outlook on life. For example, one of my friends loves to shroom. She is very depressed and has told me she takes medication for her depression. When she takes mushrooms her depression seems to disappear and usually a few days after she is a more uplifted person. I know this may not be the case for all depressed psychadelic users, but I believe they can be used to help depression and that the exploration of these drugs towards the clincally depressed should be made.

 

[nearjat]

If it weren't for my first acid trip, suicide would have been likely. It was exactly as you described, and the trip itself was absurdly euphoric in the purest form. A "plus 4" Shulgin calls it

As far as ADHD goes, coming from someone with pronounced inattentive/restless type, psychedelics haven't helped this at all honestly haha. But that's ok because I don't believe it needs help. It's who I am, and it only causes problems in certain situations. Such as school and the business world. Who's to say I can't just live in a self sustaining manner and do artwork for extra cash for stuff? ADHD wont fuck that up and I'm not taking Adderall to "fix my self" ever again.

But if ADHD causes problems for you, and psychedelics help them, more power to ya!!! thats actually fantastic haha.

 

[Zzyzx]

I currently am diagnosed with depression w/ ADD symptoms and being treated with Effexor XR since a few months.

I eat shrooms 2 to 4 times a month, often in high dosages and for me its great therapy. I feel a big self-confidence boost during the experience but it doesnt fade completly after the trip. I actually feel an afterglow for days; my mood is better, it easier for me to get shit done, etc.

I'm not sayin everybody should do the same thing and expect the same results but i'm sure that psychedelics, used responsibly in the right set & setting can be great therapy tools

 

[emperorofusa]

So you have two serious mental health issues and you think that toying around with recreational drugs is going to improve your situation? I don't follow that logic. Stick with the drugs that your treatment team prescribes to you and avoid recreational drugs. If you have unipolar depression and ADHD you need to stay away from recreational substances and stick to your treatment plan.

Mixing recreational substances and mental health issues is always a recipe for disaster. Your tinkering may not fuck your shit up today or tomorrow, but if you continue on this path it could very well spell disaster for your mental health and make your existing issues many times worse. The drugs that are going to help you the most are the ones that are prescribed to you. Stay safe. Self-medicating with recreational substances is dangerous and in your case, since you suffer from depression, it is most likely a symptom of your disorder.

 

[nearjat]

So you have two serious mental health issues and you think that toying around with recreational drugs is going to improve your situation? I don't follow that logic. Stick with the drugs that your treatment team prescribes to you and avoid recreational drugs. If you have unipolar depression and ADHD you need to stay away from recreational substances and stick to your treatment plan.

Mixing recreational substances and mental health issues is always a recipe for disaster. Your tinkering may not fuck your shit up today or tomorrow, but if you continue on this path it could very well spell disaster for your mental health and make your existing issues many times worse. The drugs that are going to help you the most are the ones that are prescribed to you. Stay safe. Self-medicating with recreational substances is dangerous and in your case, since you suffer from depression, it is most likely a symptom of your disorder.

This man raises a great point, psychedelics are one of those drugs that don't respond well to "self medication".

 

[Choronzon333]

So you have two serious mental health issues and you think that toying around with recreational drugs is going to improve your situation? I don't follow that logic. Stick with the drugs that your treatment team prescribes to you and avoid recreational drugs. If you have unipolar depression and ADHD you need to stay away from recreational substances and stick to your treatment plan.

Mixing recreational substances and mental health issues is always a recipe for disaster. Your tinkering may not fuck your shit up today or tomorrow, but if you continue on this path it could very well spell disaster for your mental health and make your existing issues many times worse. The drugs that are going to help you the most are the ones that are prescribed to you. Stay safe. Self-medicating with recreational substances is dangerous and in your case, since you suffer from depression, it is most likely a symptom of your disorder.

Hey man. I'm not talking about using psyches as primary self medication or anything. I'm not talking about replacing other treatment. I am also definitely not recommending that depressed people dive blindly into psychedelic experiences thinking it is some miracle cure when it can cause significant trauma and lead to other problems. However, this is a harm reduction forum and people will inevitably try regarless of "mental problems" so at least people who are in a similar situation sharing will provide more insight into the decision. To say that psyches can't at all be helpful for things like depression is somewhat ignorant too as a whole body of evidence dating back over 50 years suggests they can. From the thousands of LSD therapy sessions conducted by Stanislov Graf to modern studies using psilocybin to treat depression in the terminally ill, when used properly they CAN be helpful. That's not to say they always are and especially when used improperly in the wrong circumstances.


O and BTW, I wouldn't say ADHD is a "mental health issue." Sadly, the conventional treatment has faaaaaaaaar greater potential for harm than most other types of drugs out there. It is true that negative psychedelic experiences can lead to significant trouble in one's life but having gone through truly bad experiences I must say that Amphetamine adhd medications are far more dangerous and have far greater negative consequences. Using Apmhetamine medications has led to dependence many times in my life so that to cease to use them leads to weeks of hellish depression and lethargy. Furthermore during use the toll on the heart and on nutrition due to appetite suppresion can be very detrimental. ANd of course it has quite a negative impact on my personality and behavior I feel. Just like a tweaker, day after day getting that amphetamine feeling, even in reccomended dosages, can strip the joy out of everything else in life and leave you wanting only one thing, more amphetamines. THen you get it, and it feels like there is nothing left inside. Sure it can help concentration to a point but overall I don't know that its really worth it. You may be more productive but going through life feeling like an impersonal robot makes any positives bitter sweet...

 

[nearjat]

Yeah emperorofusa kinda took that advice too far, but it is good to be careful still. But in my medically useless opinion, your "mental illness" are rather mild and complications seem unlikely. I've got problems with depression and I'm diagnosed with ADHD, I trip and use all kinds of drugs and the only thing thats every "fucked me up" was daily Adderall, as prescribed. lol.

 

[any major dude]

Hey man. I'm not talking about using psyches as primary self medication or anything. I'm not talking about replacing other treatment. I am also definitely not recommending that depressed people dive blindly into psychedelic experiences thinking it is some miracle cure when it can cause significant trauma and lead to other problems. However, this is a harm reduction forum and people will inevitably try regarless of "mental problems" so at least people who are in a similar situation sharing will provide more insight into the decision. To say that psyches can't at all be helpful for things like depression is somewhat ignorant too as a whole body of evidence dating back over 50 years suggests they can. From the thousands of LSD therapy sessions conducted by Stanislov Graf to modern studies using psilocybin to treat depression in the terminally ill, when used properly they CAN be helpful. That's not to say they always are and especially when used improperly in the wrong circumstances.

I was just about mention those psilocybin studies myself. Also, with the broad & over-reaching diagnostic criteria for things like depression & add, many people who likely don't need ssri's and stimulants are prescribed them & take them everyday. I'm certainly not gonna go all Tom Cruise and say that all of modern psychiatry is a sham, but more often than not, it over-prescribes drugs. After all, pharmaceuticals is a business. However, immediately shunning an individuals well-informed usage of such substances to make their life more enjoyable is just as ignorant as calling psychedelics a magical "cure all" for whatever ails you. Obviously neither are true. Additionally, blindly following all the medical advice you get without reading up on treatments & medications yourself is, while less irresponsible than doing illicit drugs without knowledge of their effects, still a bit risky.

 

[Choronzon333]

I was just about mention those psilocybin studies myself. Also, with the broad & over-reaching diagnostic criteria for things like depression & add, many people who likely don't need ssri's and stimulants are prescribed them & take them everyday. I'm certainly not gonna go all Tom Cruise and say that all of modern psychiatry is a sham, but more often than not, it over-prescribes drugs. After all, pharmaceuticals is a business. However, immediately shunning an individuals well-informed usage of such substances to make their life more enjoyable is just as ignorant as calling psychedelics a magical "cure all" for whatever ails you. Obviously neither are true. Additionally, blindly following all the medical advice you get without reading up on treatments & medications yourself is, while less irresponsible than doing illicit drugs without knowledge of their effects, still a bit risky.

Yeh I hear ya. It makes me sad to think that they give so many little kids amphetamines. It happened too me. The first time I was coerced into taking dexedrine by parents/school/etc... I was only 5 . I couldn't sleep for like a day and that doctor way over prescribed it. It is just so weird that people warn about the dangers of meth and speed but then supposed medical professionals can give little kids amphetamines!!! IMO even though it helped because I had trouble learning to read etc... It was a terrible feeling I had all the time because of it. I could never feel justified making a kid take that shit unless they really wanted to and could make a decision for themselves once they got nearer adolescence at least.

As far as me, I definately have depression and ADHD and am sure of it. Stuff like that runs in the family and oddly enough I am probably the "most sane" or mentally healthy person in my close family despite some of my struggles. Even so, for most people, I agree, they probably don't need stuff like that as much as people tell them. Part of it seems to be a social expectation for people to coontinue to "perform" at a higher level in work and school. Its sad because in high school the supposed bright minds wound up in like 8 ap classes with 6+ hours of homework a night. How that can be considered educational or constructive I don't know. Even taking unhealthy amounts of amphetamines I doubt I could ever deal with that as its not even about learning but seems to be more about conditioning. Its like they are brainwashing these poor kids. The funny part is, all these kids come out of it and don't know how to think. Sad stuff. If people realized that that is not conducive to successful human learning and set realistic expectations and goals not only would people feel less obliged to take so many meds but they would probably learn alot more and be more productive in the long run. I'll tell you, the problem in the education system has nothing to do with funding and everything to do with the teaching methods... And now they want longer school days more days a year? Its just nonsense.


Even though people make it tough to live in the world if you have ADHD I feel like its ultimately helped me. I feel like I have always seen things in a much different way but it has allowed me to see things and understand relationships that everyone else unusually misses. Being spaced out makes it hard to focus on a math problem or sit down and start writing a paper say but when I do it is usually pretty good and alot more insightful than the average person...

 

[Delsyd]

If you are clinically depressed than i would recomend against taking psychedelics. especially if you are on medication for the depression.

Some times psychedelics can help people get out of a slump, other times it can make it worse.

They are pretty unpredictable, especially in people who are emotinally unstable.

I would be cautious about taking psychedelics if i were you. But then again you know yourself better than i do.

 

[.Felix.]

If you are clinically depressed than i would recomend against taking psychedelics. especially if you are on medication for the depression.

Some times psychedelics can help people get out of a slump, other times it can make it worse.

They are pretty unpredictable, especially in people who are emotinally unstable.

I would be cautious about taking psychedelics if i were you. But then again you know yourself better than i do.

I second this.


I have posted this several times but here is my story, but remember that every one is different.


I was depressed for 2 years, seriously contemplated suicide at time. Example is I would take 3 hour drives down one lane windy roads and when I would see a semi truck I would sometimes swerve in the other lane... some crazy stupid stuff like that. I ended up not doing it and I hated myself for a while for never going through with it...


One day me and my friends got some salvia and i had tried it before but it didnt work. So this time When i tried it I packed the bowl all the way, torched it and watched the bong fill with dense smoke. Mind you, this was some high grade sally. Payed 50 for it. I forgot what X it was but it was up there.


I take the hit..... hold it in as long as i can.... and BAM!


Lets just say my trip was based around the idea that my life was a lie and smoking the salvia woke me to my new life, where I was a body part of a giant being. I was a slave to him and this is my eternity. I screamed and cried and said "NO! my family, my girlfriend, what about my god..." I soon came out of it and really was just speechless. Traumatized me for a good couple months. BUT It pretty much demolished my depression. I felt like I was given another chance. SO now I am pretty happy! I sometimes feel down but nothing near my depression.



anyways, I would not recommend using psychs to self medicate. My behavior than was reckless but I have learned. The experience was not anything I would do again, EGO Death is horrific and beautiful. But it is your choice, psychs can give beautiful new outlooks but I remember friend who was not in the best mental state who took LSD and she said she felt sad the whole time, she never wants to take it again. It made her "think." It really depends on the person though.

 

[Zzyzx]

I've previously posted that while taking Effexor to fight depression, Psilocybin mushrooms actually do help lift my mood and help me on a therapeutic aspect.

However yesterday i've had LSD for the first time and its quite a different story. I've had but a low dose yesterday evening but today i'm so pissed off. Uncontrolable anger. Compared to the shrooms its day and night. I dont think I'll take LSD again any time soon

 

[.Felix.]

ive have noticed negative effects stand out that normally wouldnt on low doses of lsd for me. My one incident made me sick and irritable

 

[Thorz]

I think psychedelics can do wonders for depression. About a month ago I was pretty depressed and found myself using opiates and other feel good drugs to try and mask it which seems to have helped keep me in my chapel perilous. One weekend I decided to try out my 2c-t-7 again that I been holding onto for months. 40mg and a night later I had a much more optimistic view towards life. Psychedelics help me realize what's important in my life. This trip also took a toll on my social anxiety also, I became much more comfortable with being myself in all ways. My physical, emotional, conceptual, and social confidence was noted after the trip.

I had been scared to touch psychedelics for the longest time because of a very strong 2ce trip I had. Now I wish I had been using them all along because it seems they were just what I needed to help my depression.

Tripping at least once monthly for me is essential to keeping my head on straight.

BTW I do agree with the post above that psychedelics can possibly do the opposite of what I am saying. If you are in a bad mood or an unpredictable setting, your trip may not turn out so nice. I always plan a day or two ahead before I trip and have an optimistic outlook towards the outcome. I try and specifically decide what I want to get out of it and what I want to do. Intent means alot.

 

[B9]

I

As far as ADHD goes, coming from someone with pronounced inattentive/restless type, psychedelics haven't helped this at all honestly haha.

I'd have to agree with that

 

[any major dude]

Yeh I hear ya. It makes me sad to think that they give so many little kids amphetamines. It happened too me. The first time I was coerced into taking dexedrine by parents/school/etc... I was only 5 . I couldn't sleep for like a day and that doctor way over prescribed it. It is just so weird that people warn about the dangers of meth and speed but then supposed medical professionals can give little kids amphetamines!!! IMO even though it helped because I had trouble learning to read etc... It was a terrible feeling I had all the time because of it. I could never feel justified making a kid take that shit unless they really wanted to and could make a decision for themselves once they got nearer adolescence at least.

As far as me, I definately have depression and ADHD and am sure of it. Stuff like that runs in the family and oddly enough I am probably the "most sane" or mentally healthy person in my close family despite some of my struggles. Even so, for most people, I agree, they probably don't need stuff like that as much as people tell them. Part of it seems to be a social expectation for people to coontinue to "perform" at a higher level in work and school. Its sad because in high school the supposed bright minds wound up in like 8 ap classes with 6+ hours of homework a night. How that can be considered educational or constructive I don't know. Even taking unhealthy amounts of amphetamines I doubt I could ever deal with that as its not even about learning but seems to be more about conditioning. Its like they are brainwashing these poor kids. The funny part is, all these kids come out of it and don't know how to think. Sad stuff. If people realized that that is not conducive to successful human learning and set realistic expectations and goals not only would people feel less obliged to take so many meds but they would probably learn alot more and be more productive in the long run. I'll tell you, the problem in the education system has nothing to do with funding and everything to do with the teaching methods... And now they want longer school days more days a year? Its just nonsense.


Even though people make it tough to live in the world if you have ADHD I feel like its ultimately helped me. I feel like I have always seen things in a much different way but it has allowed me to see things and understand relationships that everyone else unusually misses. Being spaced out makes it hard to focus on a math problem or sit down and start writing a paper say but when I do it is usually pretty good and alot more insightful than the average person...

yeah, i can't believe they give that stuff to children either. It can cause permanent changes in the brains of teenagers and adults, god only knows what it can do to people that young. I'm working on getting a study approved tracking anhedonia & risk taking behavior in people who've been on stimulant therapy for ADD & ADHD, as I theorize these could be a result of permanent changes to certain DA pathways... SSRI's can probably cause a similar downregulation of 5HT circuitry, but probably not as severely, and it would likely take longer