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psychedelic drugs as warfare

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LucidSDreamr

LucidSDreamr

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so...in the isis Vs america day and age, is there any hope to just bomb religious extremsists with some psych and hope it causes a change in ideology?


or is killing just socially 'proper
 
I have considered such a thought. I concluded that only psys of certain properties and potency would ever work.
Unless you had some sort of dart based delivery system.
Ideologically speaking it could be a potential alternative to killing. Then again it could go the other way.
 
is there any hope to apply a psychedelic to US of America to force an ideological change?
 
I think it got tried in the 60s. Apologies for my humour. It would be interesting to see how murica would change after mass psychedelic experience.
 
The experiments that I saw were a laughing fest for most of the participants. But as far as a weapon goes some psychs could be used to debilitate the enemy. Datura comes to mind but others such as Acid could have dual effects. Those that were kind in nature could be brought to a greater degree of love and understanding and surrender or meet for discussion. But for those with evil minds there intensity could be magnified along with there strength and make them a more formidable enemy. Too iffy a project for a large scale application.
 
It's fairly ridiculous to believe that a psychedelic would change the ideology of religious extremists who had it forced upon them. Firstly, because in that circumstance they would likely just have a bad trip, and secondly because psychedelic drugs increase irrational thought.

LSD was tested by the government as a potential weapon, but this was because of it's ability to act as an incapacitant, rather than any crazy notion of changing the minds of the enemy. BTW: it was quickly abandoned because of difficulties with aerosolizing it and controlling dosage-concentration. Some anticholinergics and cannabinoids were much more successful. I think several THC analogues were actually well on their way to being weaponized before the program got shut down.
 
I understand the difficulty's here but if the say terrorist group is dosed unaware in there room and halographic images of say Jesus and Mohamed holding hands and maybe rubbing Buddah's belly together and Ganesh is clapping hands in the background, We might have a new religion, just what the world needs. Am I right, eh.
 
Yeah I think the op might be taking the whole thing about psych users thinking or truely being healed after a trip but firstly these militants on the other side don't want to chance. Its a blatant myth that psychs change people for the better. The people themselves changed with some help.

What your thinking about could only end badly.
 
Shadowsblaze said:
I understand the difficulty's here but if the say terrorist group is dosed unaware in there room and halographic images of say Jesus and Mohamed holding hands and maybe rubbing Buddah's belly together and Ganesh is clapping hands in the background, We might have a new religion, just what the world needs. Am I right, eh.
Click to expand...

lol! perfect except we'ed still be stuck in a fantasy belief system...although it would actually work out.
 
i don't mean to be used as a deblitative force....i mean design the perfect drug (dosage...etc...I think the perfect candidate drugs/dosing regimes exist already but ill leave that for another discussion because all of them do the same just in different lasting timeframes of effects) and somehow make it so rampant within the population somewhere that it could cataylze an entire cultural revoluviton....i mean shit... =it almost happened in the US in the 60s.


unofrtunatley that didn't work out for us....for the 2nd and third posters alluding to that. ...but it wasn't done in a warefare mindcontrol sense...it was just socieity and culture evolving....I'm talking about straight dosing amdn making something so rampant in a country that it effectively shatters the entire culture.....and i agree our all cultures nned that changing ....but for someone to use it agains another to "placate" them so the war ends...?

in terms of weapons...its only the wests option to use such a one, and seems better than using lethal ones.
 
i WAS just reading about psychedelic warfare on erowid last night wow. The guy who ran Edgewood testing facility tested BZ and lsd on volunteers. he was saying its sad how we dont research these anymore and that we could use say air dispensed lsd possibly in the IRAQ war to change their beliefs. He said the only recent weaponised drug used lately was russia using the fentanyl gas to stop those terrorists, killed 10% of hostages tho and they were reluctant to talk about bc there are global laws prohibiting chemical warfare/weapons , something to the effect if its deadly or very harmful it cannot be used as a weapon after all we made these to STOP casualties rather than a bomb or bullet... i rememeber way back reading about a psychedelic call JB something or another or maybe mk-801 its been a long time since i read about them. but i remember the JB one was made by the cia ? in the process of looking for super hallucinogens and i think he said it was soooo fucking crazy i cant remember the details but it sounded like the holy grail of psychs , like a designer psychedelic made to be perfect.... ill have to try and find that article and this was years ago i read it and im just paraphrasing from memory..

link to interview with head dr. i thought it was funny when he was asked did u guys laugh at your subjects when they were doing crazy things ? he said something like one guy on bz asked another on bz for a cig, the guy pulls out a invisable pack and the guy who asked was like na nevermind i dont wana take your last smoke lol wtf id be fucking pissed if i was given BZ ! they wanted to know what soldiers would do in real life situations on BZ so they wouls make a tent with a radio and like 5 solders and start talking over the radio like they were under attack and had incoming artilery, they were saying this over the radio. i can imagine someone on bz thinking they r gonna get bombed by soviets and go nuts ...

http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2007/01/10/hallucinogenic-weapons-the-other-chemical-warfare/
 
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MBRC said:
i WAS just reading about psychedelic warfare on erowid last night wow. The guy who ran Edgewood testing facility tested BZ and lsd on volunteers. he was saying its sad how we dont research these anymore and that we could use say air dispensed lsd possibly in the IRAQ war to change their beliefs. He said the only recent weaponised drug used lately was russia using the fentanyl gas to stop those terrorists, killed 10% of hostages tho and they were reluctant to talk about bc there are global laws prohibiting chemical warfare/weapons , something to the effect if its deadly or very harmful it cannot be used as a weapon after all we made these to STOP casualties rather than a bomb or bullet... i rememeber way back reading about a psychedelic call JB something or another or maybe mk-801 its been a long time since i read about them. but i remember the JB one was made by the cia ? in the process of looking for super hallucinogens and i think he said it was soooo fucking crazy i cant remember the details but it sounded like the holy grail of psychs , like a designer psychedelic made to be perfect.... ill have to try and find that article and this was years ago i read it and im just paraphrasing from memory..
Click to expand...


u just read my mind.... i was thinking about this thread more after a few minutes from my last post and was just thinking that maybe the super psych for this application doesn't exist yet. Aspects of it do in certain drugs we currently know....but the perfect drug for this application i feel could work. it needs to go in a tryptamine direction (ego empathy and revelation wisee) but with the loveability of dissociatives/mdma...if were talking changing peoaple pardigms.


just dosing someone with sedatives/deleriants...anything to "incappacitate" them is not what I mean, I mean something that would get everyone in the socieyt targeted experienceing it and it would cause drastic personailty changes....just as the drugs can obviously do.

I'm really just trying to hope that what it did to me....changing who i was totally, that it could do on a grand scale targeted at a group of people.

i realize this is some very ehtically questionable approaches to think about....but it does cross my mind and others apparently as well....again...we are currently using bullets and bombs.



And whoever brought up the 60s lsd....we did that to ourselves it was a small subset of the population... and it was elective....im' talking about just dosing everyone in society in a warfare scenario

this would

1) not harm them physically, compared to bombs
2)prevent physical harm because the wests own side wouldn't probby be as worried about engaging the enemy with ammo and would be able to avoid armed conflict
3) THIG BIG QUESTION OF MY WHOLE POST: hopefully cause them to give up and go another direction with their cause.


because theres no damn way that "mind control" would work on the west...we get it and all but its very trite to us compared to $$....which is why we are in this conflict... is why we do it., but hey maybe this could be a way to end things at least go in a better direction and the opposotion would compromise then we wouldn't have an excuse to keep fighting like we wanat to.
 
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Would LSD stop you being a muslim? Or would you simply see Allah when you took it and be even more of a muslim/or not see Allah and think LSD was the work of satan.
 
yea that JB drug i mention if i remember correctly was just that, THE super hallucinogen, i remember it being described as being shot into space or something like that..also it WASNT a tryptamine or pea...but yea dosing a whole nation could go the whole other direction and re inforce isis'd beliefs or even make people wana join the cause possibly it would have to be a drug that induced pure bliss with some ego death imo
 
Do you mean BZ as the super hallucinogen? I thought it was so shit no-one ever took it recreationally - it was even more unpleasant than huffing glue.
 
You might be interested in reading acid dreams. The CIA thought about doing this but as was mentioned as a weapon not to change any minds, they couldn't get the dosing right. You should read about all the dosing that went on at the CIA at the time, everyone was encouraged to try LSD to get a feel for it it was required for a short while to new recruits to dose and then they started spiking people secretly as hazing until they pulled it on someone with a latent psychiatric condition and they ended up committing suicide so that was the end of that.

It sure didn't change muchof the CIA guys who took its mind set. With some notable exceptions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Matthew_Hubbard

It might change a very small minorities minds but not enough to warrant it's use and the risk of accidentally triggering those with latent mental disorders.
 
The problem is i don't see it working as an attack where you "drug a certain base of soliders....or even commanders"

it pretty much needs to a be a full scale durgging of almost all of that society. ....its a very provocative question, and I'm still wrestling with the right answeres but its something that crosses some of our minds.

I know if u did that to american politicians even though they might learn something or see the light...they will still keep doing the same bullshit for $$$$

But with a group the west is at war with which really doens't have that sort of control of worldresources (Yet)......changing the ideology of the leaders my could work since they don't have money corrpution immediately becoming a hindering force for psych inspired change.



DISCLAIMER: I'm not taking a side......just wondering about solutions that seem like they would work on my mind but i'm could just be giving psychs too much credit is empathy love causing tools. Like when I'm tripping the idea of even feeling bad towards others about anytching gets shattered, even when i didn before i sober life....now extand that to killing which psychs make it so that killing someone over anything to make NO sense.

These are probably pottedheaded threories but i like to think about how drugs could save humanity sometimtes.

if it actually worked though the west would then still keep wars going to try and get their oil.....but with an oppenent that doesn't want to fight anymore....it might be harder to propogate





This brings up the age old question that basically if everyone tripped together would things NOT resort to violence to resolve conflict

stop

The first thing we have to know before we even have this talk is: ? do psychs promote empathy, peaces, ego softening and other thing that can stop war REGARDLESS of preconceived teachings or beliefs. in ALL human beings from ALL corners of the world?

what if you gave someone that is super money hungry/greedy/evil psychs.....does they change thos ppl eventuallY?

or does it not change some. I just personally can't see how if i was forced to trip enough i wouldn't agree to those values.....sure when i'm away from psychs I lose them and evilness steps in.




again this is really crazy talk....but how crazy is it to be shotting eachother?
 
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I don't know if LSD can turn an asshole into a nice guy - I think it just tends to bring out or emphasise whatever you were to begin with.
 
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