Psychedelic depression treatment

[DeepFriedFunk]

I have a long history with drugs, mostly using them to get off my absolute bollocks. I have always been quite spiritually minded so I found hallucinogenics to be very intriguing. One of the most profound effects (whilst in the midst of my alcohol dependency) was the cravings went away. My depression lifted, many people have experienced this and there is a hell of a lot of research into it.

Traditional meds just mess me up. SSRI's make me suicidal, others just make me feel like a zombie.

I can get my hands on most stuff, well everything -snip-. Does anyone have advice or success in treating depression with hallucinogenics? Such as the choice of substance, doses, how often to use the drugs? I'm sure we've all met one of them people who's done far too much acid in their time and never really seemed to come back to reality - I dont want to be that guy!

I have found LSA and 2-cb to be the most "controllable" hallucinogens. I am considering starting with a thresh hold dose of LSA (morning glory or HBWS) then noting the effects over the next week. I have done massive amounts of LSD, Shrooms etc.. but the purpose of this isn't to get off my tree.

Any help, suggestions or experiences on the regime would be of great help. I am off of everything now, so there are no drugs, prescribed or not to interfere. I also have a friend who has a degree in alternative psychology and a particular interest in the use of psychoactive substances in treating psychological problems who will join me/hlp guide my trip.

 

[nidhogg]

Well, from a neurochemical point of view i'd say it is very possible. I read a study a while ago testing various of 5HT1/2 antagonists and agonist to determine the response in BDNF levels, which currently is theorized to be the main anti-depressive mechanism behind SSRI and other ADs. It stated that a long term treatment of psilocybin(psilocin) had a significant and robust increase in hippocampal BDNF levels, but that a short term(acute) dose resulted in either no or a slight decrease.
There is also a psychological perspective, i.e you tackle your subconscious problems and live happily ever after. This is something your friend mind help you with

If you decide to do this, keep in mind that you dont need and probably wont hallucinate after repeated treatment, this is due to the fact that 5HT2A is very sensitive to binding so that even antagonists result in a desensitization. For AD purposes, this appears is a good thing, because studies have linked 5HT2A to decreased hippocampal BDNF, probably due to Gq coupling.
The benefits you would experience would be mostly from 5HT1A activation.

It would be an interesting project as seeing that all ADs today either inhibit transporter proteins or modulate serotonin release. There is no direct agonist as far as i know.

If i were you and i wanted to do this, i'd research the substances and pick the one thats most selective with affinity greater for 5HT1A than 5HT2A to avoid unnecessary side effects

 

[loganjp]

Psychedelics to treat depression

By David Pescovitz at 12:36 pm Friday, Aug 20

Maybe LSD in the water supply would be a good thing! New research published this week in the scientific journals Nature Reviews Neuroscience and Science suggest (once again) that psychedelic drugs have potential as a treatment for depression. Neuroscientists from the Yale University School of Medicine conducted a study where they gave rats small amounts of the powerful dissociative anesthetic ketamine (aka "Special K"). The drug apparently alleviated symptoms of depression in the animals and also regenerated damaged connections between brain cells. From a Yale press release:


Files 07-38 047230429-Woman Smells Ketaset

“It’s like a magic drug–one dose can work rapidly and last for seven to 10 days,” said Ronald Duman, professor of psychiatry and pharmacology at Yale and senior author of the study.

Ketamine traditionally has been used as a general anesthetic for children, but a decade ago researchers at the Connecticut Mental Health Center found that, in lower doses, the drug seemed to give patients relief from depression, Duman said. In these initial clinical studies, which have been replicated at the National Institute of Mental Health, almost 70 percent of patients who are resistant to treatment with all other forms of antidepressants were found to improve within hours after receiving ketamine. However, its clinical use has been limited because it has to be delivered intravenously under medical supervision and in some cases can cause short-term psychotic symptoms. It has also been used as a recreational drug, known as “Special K” or sometimes just “K.”

So Duman, colleague George Aghajanian and the Yale team set out to map the molecular action of the drug in the prefrontal cortex of rats that could lead to potential targets for a safer and more easily used drugs. "Yale Team Describes Secrets of ‘Magic’ Anti-Depressant"

Meanwhile, in this week's issue of Nature Reviews Neuroscience, University Hospital of Psychiatry in Zurich researchers survey how the study of psychedelics, including LSD, could lead to news kinds of psychiatric drugs. From the abstract in Nature Reviews Neuroscience:

After a pause of nearly 40 years in research into the effects of psychedelic drugs, recent advances in our understanding of the neurobiology of psychedelics, such as lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD), psilocybin and ketamine have led to renewed interest in the clinical potential of psychedelics in the treatment of various psychiatric disorders. Recent behavioural and neuroimaging data show that psychedelics modulate neural circuits that have been implicated in mood and affective disorders, and can reduce the clinical symptoms of these disorders. These findings raise the possibility that research into psychedelics might identify novel therapeutic mechanisms and approaches that are based on glutamate-driven neuroplasticity.

"The neurobiology of psychedelic drugs: implications for the treatment of mood disorders"

More on this in the Scientific American article "Psychedelic Drugs Show Promise as Anti-Depressants"
http://boingboing.net/2010/08/20/psychedelics-to-trea.html

 

[DeepFriedFunk]

I am going to do a lot more research into this as I find it an interesting subject anyway. The friend I was speaking about is a great font of knowledge for all things regarding alternative psychology and he is goin to help me through the whole thing. He has a very good understanding of the human mind.

My main problems all stem from addiction (drug addiction.) Anyone who has been there has probably realized you seem to know yourself inside out due to looking at what makes you tick so you can avoid taking the drugs... searching for a solution. However, from my point of view everyone is an addict, the point of view I'm coming from is everyone is living wrong, towards sense pleasure rather than self fulfillment as we believe the ego is king. I am no a scientist but I believe this has a huge role in the huge levels of depression in westernized society.

This is through years of experimenting with literature and drugs and an obsession to study culture. It also left me with a very positive change to devoting part of my life to Buddhist study. But, rhis has left me in the sticky situation where I feel lost, unimportant and completely helpless. All classic signs of clinical depression. I know why I feel this way (i think) but not how to change it.

I suppose I will just have to keep a diary of experiences and general mood/emotional states during and after. This will be completely different experience as I have never used it as a tool (which seems to really be what these substances are intended for through looking at tribal medicine/ritual practices) Also, the meditation I have been doing over the past year is a great tool for controlling my anxiety and the lessons I have learned there should hopefully help me to explore different levels of consciousness. In fact, whilst this is against my Buddhist teachings (but it's not as dogmatic as "you'll burn in hell" They prefer the slow way to higher consciousness and TRUE enlightenment) it has been encouraged by some Lamas as a very good way to open one's mind. But im saying this to a psychedelic based thread - so derrrr.

I will start with a moderate dose and see how it goes. Been dealing with this for years so i reckon I can wait a few more months till UK warms up a bit coz I like being outside when I trip (either that or in a dark room fiddling with glowing things). I already know it will help, bad or good trips, I have always gone away with a lesson learned. In fact the bad ones have been the most (positively) life changing ones.

Any other info would be great, I do loads of research but more is welcome! Any personal experiences would be even more greatly appreciated.

 

[Zija]

From a personal experience, yes. In detail below

Drugs such as LSD, Ketamine, and Psilocybin mushrooms defiantly gave me an increase in my own ability to cope with depression, mood disorders ect. Psychedelics have manifested themselves into a gate way of psychedelic therapy, under proper set and setting , and usually 1/4 of what I'd take for "recreational use".

LSD: In my experience LSD has the most profound long-term treatment with mental issues; mainly lack of interest in daily activities. For example, walking the dog, interest in conversations that are usually lacking stimulation, increase in social intelligence (eye contact, more in the moment ect). Ability to think through self defeating messages and gain control of myself, leading to more "personalized" decisions.

LSD allows me to manipulate my state of being, helping me rise through normally self-defeating situations (EX Medium long events such as a school semester), gaining intuition on what exactly I should do. More frequent than not, my normal answer is to just be.

Ketamine: Finally gaining proper recognition, Ketamin in my experience has such a profound answer to short term depression, but with further treatment (**under medical supervision) has the potential to completely cure depression. The reason I empathize being under professional supervision is to ensure proper dosage, also being under supervision but I'm not to concerned about that myself.

My personal session with low dose's of ketamine has had a fair success rate. With in a mere hour of dosing my depression has been greatly lifted, usually epiphanizing (literately coming up with multiple solutions to my seemingly unbeatable problems) solutions to my maladjustment behaviors. Now my amazing progress has always been antagonized to my psychological addiction that followed my low dose experiments, quietly becoming a daily routine of unmeasured dosages far beyond what they should be. My reasons, self justifications about "high tolerance" or the "last time". Clearly, in my personal experience Ketamine is unfitted for my own personal diagnosis (which is truly a foolish thing to do) seeing how I become addicted.

To sum things up I'd like to note that 1 gram of K was used in 3 weeks, two times. I should have used it once a week, maybe 3 times (lol) no more. After this binge I only worsened my problem, being unable to recall words, literately felt stupid. In class essay's were the worst. Anything that required my focus at that specific moment.

Mushrooms: I would like to get in depth with mushrooms, but that is for another time, a follow up if anyone is interested. Mushroom trips normal dosages, (not following my controlled variable of 1/4 a normal dosage) have always left me in a frame of mind where my life depended on my ability to survive and adapt. Giving me a more natural feeling of basic intuition.


Be careful out there

 

[DeepFriedFunk]

Thanks Zija! That is almost exactly the same symptoms I am having. As for the ketamine route... i should probably stay away from that too. My frind sold it (i can say that right?) so we all ended up hammering it in stupid amounts. We were doing 250mg lines and not getting that messed up. Seen some people in some states from that stuff. Took me 3 hours to walk a straight line home from a rave after being kicked out (for obvious reasons, I was k-holing on the dance floor because I confused my bag of coke for ketamine!) Wouldnt recommend it but funny as hell once the confusion wore off and i realized where i'd been. We used to hold ketamine olympics with 3 legged races and stuff... aah fun times.

Anyways - my head already associates ketamine with recreational use (and abuse) so I think for starters I'll try the LSD/LSA/Psylocybin route first.

Really good to see someone who has had positive effects, really happy for you and all the best!! Given me a bit more hope into finding a cure.

Can't wait to tell my addiction councillor about this one haha - she's always been in disagreement about doing it it but in no doubt about the positive effects it has!! I'll always remember the Frankie Boyle joke about treating addiction with LSD "That'll make smack heads a bit more interesting - have you got any change mate? I've got a unicorn to feed"

 

[<SpaceHead>]

Hey Mods you may want to remove the mentioned source in the original post

 

[Zija]

heh

 

[Ismene]

Regular use of mushrooms cured my life-long depression permanently.

 

[bluedom]

There is a research group who are computationally screening every human ingestible substance with every possible protein to identify new uses for existing drugs/substances. They've gotten a really prestigious grant (the NIH Director's Pioneer Award in 2010) to do this. I'm going to bet they're going to find a lot of psychoactive substances have a lot of therapeutic benefit similar to some of the best drugs produced by Pharma. It's a systems biology based drug discovery approach all done using sophisticated computer modelling (and thousands of cores).

I mean what is the difference between someone who is medicated with SSRIs and perhaps another mood balancing prescription drug to feel "normal" vs. someone who's taking a therapeutic dose of a psychoactive substance that makes them feel good? After my recent trip with DXM I've come to the conclusion that it is better to self medicate with psychedelics instead of just mood balancing substances which only seem to treat the symptoms. I realised my exploration of alcohol was a frigging waste of time (the exploration itself I mean; I learnt that it was a bad fork in the road and pulled back and now feel I'm on the right path).