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Psychedelic cults

Listen - I do not think these things are all 'cultish' I guess this thread got split off into two seperate ideas. The cultish thing I was referring to is the fact that psychedelics seem to cause small little groups of people who understand reality in a similar fashion that they found through psychedelic experiance and then they share htis with others on psychedelics and then they share it and so on, that but not just one group a ton of them. Now I didn't say this was always a bad thing. I guess 'cult' is a bad word and is negativly charged.

HOWEVER, I do think this CAN be a bad thing, just as anything can, and was simply pointing that out.

As far as the magick goes - yes, it is real, whether it is to you or not, you cannot tell me my spiritual beliefs are delusion. Maybe to you, but to me, they are truth. I did not think the strings were vibrating from an actual invisable hand, but that the psytrance was vibrating the strings and it looked cool, however these are not just decoration, at many of these events they do an opening ritual and they place their crystals on the altar with specific intent and it was only one time i saw the string thing and that was fucking cool - very complex ritual.

Normally these parties around here are a good thing though many of them are lead by Thelemites which I find to be kind of focused on darkness...
 
^^ I don't doubt that parties can get weird if thrown by people who actually take Crowley seriously/at his word.

But in seriousness, if magic is real, why can't it be documented or demonstrated in any regular, epeatable way?

I don't find spirituality delusional at all, though I'm not very spiritual. But belief in magic I don't understand. And I say that with neutral tone: convince me, or try and explain to me why you believe it to be real and why I should be open-minded about something that flies in the face of something I do have faith in: science. Was there a particular event that happened to you involving magic that made you believe? And does it relate to psychedelics and I'd so how?

Those are serious questions too, I'm not just trying to wank your chain and shit.
 
Normally these parties around here are a good thing though many of them are lead by Thelemites which I find to be kind of focused on darkness...

Hmmmm, Just read up on Crowley and Thelemites seems there connection with satan or the 'devil' is only recognizing that that force is within everyone so they are able to rid there bodys of that evil spirit, doesn't sound like they are 'worshiping' a negative diety just using realism on there path to free will, this was only after 15 minutes of reading so someone jump in and let me know if I am wrong.

A few days ago you said you knew of one group in general that was "very very bad" as you put it, im guessing you meant the Thelemites, the pentagram is a symbol of sacred geometry and is not just used to worship the DEVIL, major religions use this throughout the world, also just because Thelemites recognize the "devil" looks like Crowley used 666 to acknowledge the devil beast within him so he could rid himself of it, looking at the world today I don't find that to be a terrible idea, however I wouldn't doubt that people try to make this group seem satanic even if they are not, just do your own research. I am sure they were involved in weird shit dont get me wrong.

We must realize gigantic powers in our world skew the truth so we are led to believe in what they are preaching.

I'll be the first to admit that stuff can seem weird, but if you don't like it then go hang out at another party...You seem to be coming around and realizing you were wrong, just drop it your perspective isn't 'wrong' you just keep pulling insults out of your ass like saying the rainbow family is a bunch of bums.

You must open your eyes and see the world is changing, last time I checked psychedelic users are free thinkers who do not follow the stereotypical lifestyle, you are just reading too much into things
 
"not to mention initiating a bunch of people into the OTO during an opening ritual and shit like that."


I don't think the OTO are "evil". There's always been cult groups around dead scene. I refuse to buy into any Christian BS about who I should fear. I like pagans and druids and wiccas etc. I don't have a problem with people into magick. Most it is silly and doesn't interest me but at least they aren't jesus freaks, the latter of which have probably done more hippie recruiting than anyone.
Anyway Manson made the news but at that time in the 1960s there 100s if not 1000's of LSD taking hippie communes, he made the news because it was sensational. The peaceful hippies living in LSD bliss never made news. Sadly most of them went and got jobs and if you meet a hippie acid cult now its probably more you trying to get in rather than them recruiting you.
I find LSD is the only thing that gives me mystical/religious experiences. I am in favour of acid churches, I think they would do well.
 
charles manson would not have been able to convince those girls to kill without LSD, EarthBounded.

And I suppose you have never been to psytrance festival, GreenMachine. If the dead family freaks you out, I cannot imagine what a psy gathering would do to you. Though to me, they are normally a good thing.

its not deadheads that freak me out, i love the dead and the scene that comes with it too. i specifically mean people who actually worship jerry garcia, there are multiple REAL cults based around the band. there isnt really a psytrance scene in the states, or at least not on the east coast, so most people end up at raves or all-purpose hippie festivals with electronic music, jam bands, etc. however, i would LOVE to go to a proper psytrance fest. the burner scene (burning man) seems pretty similar to the psytrance scene of europe and australia, and i have a good bit of experience with local burns, just not BM.

i have no problem with spirituality, which is something that definitely has been cultivated more with my personal use of psychedelics. i went to catholic school for nine years, i have problems with people telling other people what to believe; when someone uses psychedelics and a scene that is all about love and freedom to use people to buy into their agenda it just really turns me off.
 
^^ I don't doubt that parties can get weird if thrown by people who actually take Crowley seriously/at his word.

But in seriousness, if magic is real, why can't it be documented or demonstrated in any regular, epeatable way?

I don't find spirituality delusional at all, though I'm not very spiritual. But belief in magic I don't understand. And I say that with neutral tone: convince me, or try and explain to me why you believe it to be real and why I should be open-minded about something that flies in the face of something I do have faith in: science. Was there a particular event that happened to you involving magic that made you believe? And does it relate to psychedelics and I'd so how?

Those are serious questions too, I'm not just trying to wank your chain and shit.

The reason this cannot be demonstrated is because any observer who does not believe it to be possible influences the outcome of the events by observing. That is half of the way it works. Only proof you need is personal after personal experimentation.

also science and magick go hand in hand - at least quantam physics. the type I practice - while a spiritual tool, does not involve deities or spirits or chanting etc, but simply energetic manipulation of the patterns that naturally normally unconsciousnly happen.

also, crowley was an idiot.
 
A few days ago you said you knew of one group in general that was "very very bad" as you put it, im guessing you meant the Thelemites, the pentagram is a symbol of sacred geometry and is not just used to worship the DEVIL, major religions use this throughout the world, also just because Thelemites recognize the "devil" looks like Crowley used 666 to acknowledge the devil beast within him so he could rid himself of it, looking at the world today I don't find that to be a terrible idea, however I wouldn't doubt that people try to make this group seem satanic even if they are not, just do your own research. I am sure they were involved in weird shit dont get me wrong.


once again, you assume wrong. I was not talking about the "thelemites" i am speaking of a specific group of magicians in this area.... these tools are like a hammer... one could build a house, or smash some windows. those people are smashing windows.

i do not even believe in the devil - it is simply the darker half of God.
 
I am here to inspire thought and make sure you guys are safe. And I've been attending psy festivals since the early 2000's.

You do not need to come off as condescending with your 'Kid' comment, nor do you need to make assumptions. I came to bring up a valid point to make sure people do not fall into these traps that DO EXIST whether you want to admit it or not, psychedelics can be used for not so good reasons - or manipulated anyway, and it does happen. Trying to make people aware of it, because I care. Sorry I offended your ego, brother. Mayhaps you could use some LSD? ;)

I love psycehdelics, and I love hippies. I do not love hippys being uneducated about the posibilities and dangers of psychedelics and assuming because of the amazing experiances that they are 100% benign and are somehow protected from being manipulated while in a hyper suggestable state. I also don't appreciate all the dirty kids stealing and bumming around all the time at rainbow gatherings. Nor do I appreciate people who practice magick thinking because they are 'awakened' that it is okay to do rituals on innocent kids tripping at a festival and change their reality forever.




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and yes there is certainly some weird shit goig on. at some places here, they will have the speakers and have a string coming out of the speakers and splitting off into 100 different strings each one tied around a different crystal, with a candle lit in front of it. i was watching them and saw the psy vibrating the strings and it was as if an invisible hand was playing them like a harp. these people are modifying reality, sometimes in a good way, but many times in a negative way by accident as they do not think about the buttefly effect, and also there is the occasion where its purposfully in a very negative way.

not to mention initiating a bunch of people into the OTO during an opening ritual and shit like that.

thank you for replying honestly.

look OP, its like this--rainbow gatherings are 100% decentralized outside of the basic planning of the event. no one is pulling any strings behind the scenes, its a gathering of equals who all share in a spiritual experience based around the earth and the love that all humans have.

as far as your experience with psyparties, maybe some weirdos actually do want to do that, but i think your perception of it has WAY more to do with your own personal, subjective beliefs on reality and most likely, the effects of psychedelic drugs when in large groups of people.

when lots of people get together with music, visual stimulation, and psychedelic drugs we can reach a mysterious but awesome communion of conciousness, whether its a psytrance fest, hippie festival, rave, rainbow gathering, etc. sometimes the vibes can get real weird, but to assume conspiracy is giving the people running the event wayy too much credit. it seems like 90% of the time these events are completely chaotic shitshows where the promoters have to bend over backwards just to get the portapotties onsite. everything else is like a controlled chaos, that has way more to do with the collective than people who organize it. just my two cents man.
 
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its not deadheads that freak me out, i love the dead and the scene that comes with it too. i specifically mean people who actually worship jerry garcia, there are multiple REAL cults based around the band. there isnt really a psytrance scene in the states, or at least not on the east coast, so most people end up at raves or all-purpose hippie festivals with electronic music, jam bands, etc. however, i would LOVE to go to a proper psytrance fest. the burner scene (burning man) seems pretty similar to the psytrance scene of europe and australia, and i have a good bit of experience with local burns, just not BM.

i have no problem with spirituality, which is something that definitely has been cultivated more with my personal use of psychedelics. i went to catholic school for nine years, i have problems with people telling other people what to believe; when someone uses psychedelics and a scene that is all about love and freedom to use people to buy into their agenda it just really turns me off.

there is most certianly a psytrance scene in the US, especially on the east coast, lol. check out the east coast psy tribe they intermingle with all the other little groups that throw some festivals. there are several fairly large gathers all summer..
 
That is not all that you were saying in the beginning of your post. Now you are trying to make it sound as if you were just making a comment about how people who have a common interest (LSD) hang together in little groups(post 41). No, I wouldn't consider that "cult" behavior. But what you started this thread with is much more than that.

...however there are also things like the Waco cult or charles manson to think about.

I think these tools are ultra-powerful and understanding and education about their actual effects is needed - while they seem to be changing things for the better, its also good to analyze the other angle of things. I also do not think we must abandon any ideals we know to be true and good, however we should as always, consider the source. ...

...On the TV and all that nonsense as well, and I agree, maybe the opposing side should have an equally powerful way of manipulation, but still, why can't all these people just let people figure it out on their own?...

I think they are important as they seem to regularly break down societial conditioning - however after doing this they seem to put us in a hypersuggestable state and it seems that there are people out there that either are purposfully manipulating this or they don't recognize it as manipulation and think they are doing a good thing. Which they very well might be, who knows. Though, personally, I have found over time that it seems better to do these type of things in small groups in the middle of the woods so as to only break down the conditioning, rather than being brainwashed all over again in the opposite direction.
 
The reason this cannot be demonstrated is because any observer who does not believe it to be possible influences the outcome of the events by observing. That is half of the way it works. Only proof you need is personal after personal experimentation.

Spooky action at a distance, then? The problem is that objective reality does not require belief. Reality does not need our permission. As Dick said, 'Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.'
 
Listen - I do not think these things are all 'cultish' I guess this thread got split off into two seperate ideas. The cultish thing I was referring to is the fact that psychedelics seem to cause small little groups of people who understand reality in a similar fashion that they found through psychedelic experiance and then they share htis with others on psychedelics and then they share it and so on, that but not just one group a ton of them. Now I didn't say this was always a bad thing. I guess 'cult' is a bad word and is negativly charged.

HOWEVER, I do think this CAN be a bad thing, just as anything can, and was simply pointing that out.

As far as the magick goes - yes, it is real, whether it is to you or not, you cannot tell me my spiritual beliefs are delusion. Maybe to you, but to me, they are truth. I did not think the strings were vibrating from an actual invisable hand, but that the psytrance was vibrating the strings and it looked cool, however these are not just decoration, at many of these events they do an opening ritual and they place their crystals on the altar with specific intent and it was only one time i saw the string thing and that was fucking cool - very complex ritual.

Normally these parties around here are a good thing though many of them are lead by Thelemites which I find to be kind of focused on darkness...

If you can prove magic exists to me, I will be your servant for life. If you want me to go be a missionary in Africa, I will. If you want me to seek out the bad juju in jamaica in the weed cults, I will. I just require proof that you are who you say, master!
 
i will show you the thing i sent to MGS

wanted to drop something i consider knowledge on you.... i am sure you know of manifestation... people have had this down to a science for thousands of years. be careful, fore if this information does resonate with you, and you are not of pure heart mind and soul, it will eat you alive. this is my interpration of it:

with this I am speaking more of energetic manipulation.... as we once found out there were air waves all around us and we could manipulate them to have wireless data streaming whatever we want, it has been found that there are energetic webs all around us that behave and interact based on certain patterns, and upon studying these patterns - or at least our personal interpration of them, we can influence/manipulate these energy patterns. for example, every action can do anything, and does, at all times. for example, if you are drinking a cup of water, you set it down, and while saying out loud "yeah she'll be here in a minute" it hits the table, those actions are linked, and that energy makes that event more likely to happen. now these things happen unconsciously all the time as the divine unfolding plan - or organized chaos as I view it - some view it as just random chaos unfolding....

Now, say you were to PAY ATTENTION to this, and you place a cup down with the purposeful intention, while it hits the table, purposfully remarking outloud "i will get the job soon", or something of that nature. And lets say you do this with multiple things, the more often you put this into the energy web - the more likely it is to happen. now it does not nessicarily have to be more TIMES, or more time. this can be explained in quantam physics like string theory, etc.. its another reason why prayer works...

now lets talk more quantam theory? do you know the double slit experiment? if not, watch this quick 5 minute cartoon video explaining it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu57B1v0SzI

okay so double slit experiment, now imagine that, however instead of being applied to marbles or light being shot through two slots, being applied to manifestation of reality, and any given specific situation and any of its infinite possible outcomes. Now, in the double slit experiment, when being observed, the molecule behaved completely differently, and the observer collapsed the wave. Now when we apply this to what I said, when we focus on any given specific outcome, or give it thought, we are being the observer in that experiment - and observing that as the outcome. now this is happening at all times - when we are thinking and analyzing any situation, the more thought we give something, the more energy. The more energy, when it comes down to what i would call here point 0 and it is time for that wave to collapse, the one with the most energy (and if it is an intertangled situation involving multiple people, the most energy from all those involved and aware of the situation) becomes the reality that is chosen. now, as i said, more time thinking does not nessicarily mean more energy ([thought|time] != energy), and there are other methods of putting more energy towards a specific outcome and collapsing the wave.

as per manifestation, just as we have learned that we create our reality with our thoughts, just because we think something more often does not make it nessicarily more likely to happen than say something we put more energy into... TIME DOES NOT EQUAL ENERGY. therefore, more time spent thinking something while it DOES make it more likely to happen, is a very inefficient way to manifest.

for exmaple, you could put energy into something by like, taking 1 hr to set up a very intricate crystal grid of your own artwork, and with each crystal you put down placing a seperate intention, then sit in the center of it and meditate towards it for another hr, maybe toning outloud towards it or some people even use blood or semen and place it on an altar (i would advise against blood- far too powerful and long lasting), then at the center of it, light a candle or something and speak your intention. all that energy behind the entire ritual - goes straight toward that intention.

now this can be used for ANYTHING - to a certain extent - especially while we are young. now you need to be careful, because let me give you a very simple example of something that seems harmless but could effect the entire world:

lets say with complete faith that this is the way to manifest this and it WILL work, and you take a piece of paper, write on it "tomorrow i will meet a woman named jenny, and we will talk about shoes." then you place this paper on a table, put a candle on top of it, and light it. then after the wax melts, you pour the wax in a cup, and let it dry... then you pour water in the cup, and drink it. Now, next day, you are walking thru town, and you meet this woman named jenny, and you guys discuss shoes for ten minutes. that is all, end of that part of story. no big deal right?

well lets say at that moment when you met jenny, before you had made your modification, she was going to meet Dan. Her and Dan were going to hit it off and fall in love, and eventually have a child. That child was going to find the cure for cancer. However, your simple shoe thing prevented that.

You see what I mean? best to not use it to influence the world, or others, even indirectly, and instead just your own mind and energies. even changing your own path indirectly can influence others.

Be safe.
 
^^^^ Everything you are defining can be accomplished by any member of the Human race not just psychedelic users.... You are digging way to deep.
 
^^^^ Everything you are defining can be accomplished by any member of the Human race not just psychedelic users.... You are digging way to deep.

I didn't say anything about psychedelics - we are way off topic though, you are right, that may be lending to the confusion.

I was just answering the question 2 people asked regarding magick.
 
^This thread is all over the place, would you mind restating what exactly your concerns are, and how we should be discussing them?

i would advise against blood- far too powerful and long lasting

Off topic, but are there like, occult journals attempting double-blind, placebo controlled studies on these things? (I'm serious)

okay so double slit experiment->magick

Your premise does not support your conclusion.
 
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^This thread is all over the place, would you mind restating what exactly your concerns are, and how we should be discussing them?



Off topic, but are there like, occult journals attempting double-blind, placebo controlled studies on these things? (I'm serious)



Your premise does not support your conclusion.

i am not sure - but as I said, double-blind studies wouldn't work unless the observers had even a fraction of faith that it was possible otherwise they'd skew the results.

as far as the OP, what I am saying is that psychedelics put us in hypersuggestive states and there are many groups out there who have realized this and are taking advantage of it to brainwash people to understand their version of the truth.

and besides just them, there is the unintentional brainwashing happening.
 
^I see, well then, on with the disjointed conversing. I must admit, I would like to see one of these gatherings in action.

The cultish thing I was referring to is the fact that psychedelics seem to cause small little groups of people who understand reality in a similar fashion that they found through psychedelic experiance and then they share htis with others on psychedelics and then they share it and so on, that but not just one group a ton of them.

This is how knowledge/opinion spreads in groups of persons in general. Things like diets, political opinions, preference for specific sports gear, etc. etc. The only difference here seems to be the knowledge being spread is particularly arcane. Reminds me of my class on conspiracy theory a number of years ago, unfortunately my recollection is poor, but there's a lot of interesting stuff to go through about official sources of knowledge (e.g. universities, government, news media, civic organizations) and how information contrary to that disseminated by the socially legitimate channels, or that legitimate channels refuse to publish, is rejected out of hand.
 
double-blind studies wouldn't work unless the observers had even a fraction of faith that it was possible otherwise they'd skew the results.

Some things cannot be proven by science...that does not mean they are not 'real.' Nevertheless, you should re-read what a double blind study is. You can't have a double-blind study...PERIOD if the scientist is required to have 'faith'...I think you are getting some concepts and some 'realities' confused. Or maybe I just have not been brainwashed by the black magic enough to be feelin' ya. :)
 
^True true, but in this case, the results should be empirically verifiable. E.G. magick practitioners should win lotteries and raffles at higher rates than nonbelievers. Then again, there is that thing with random number generators...

In general count me with the skeptics, but I don't wanna get too harsh on ya, since people could say the same about my [mono]theism. And nonverifiable things aside, there are proven benefits to things like affirmative prayer, so such practices may have utility outside of their ability to influence exoteric/exogenous systems.
 
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