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Prop 19

Delsyd

Delsyd

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Califorania, vote yes.
15 years ago you made a difference with medicinal marijuana, now you're at the forfront of a revolutionary change
vote yes

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Just like it should be a no brainer for Mass voters to pass Question 1 rescinding their sales tax on alcohol (they pay both a sales and an excise tax) and Question 3 to cut their state sales tax from 6.25% to 3%. But in 2008 they overwhelmingly voted NO to drop their state income tax rate from 5.3% to 2.5%. Who in their right mind votes to pay more in taxes? I have no faith that voters will make the right decision! :\
 
Fuck Prop 19. Doesn't do enough, and sets up regressive prohibitions against selling to minors or driving under the influence.

I also don't know how much I like he idea of just decriminalizing small amounts of marijuana, because it might reduce the number of arrests dramatically and boost support for the War on the Remainder of Drugs when everyone feels that things are much nicer and less unjust now that pot users aren't being locked up.

Prop 215, SB 420, and Measure Z all add up to make cannabis legal enough for me around here.
 
Coolio said:
Fuck Prop 19. Doesn't do enough, and sets up regressive prohibitions against selling to minors or driving under the influence.

I also don't know how much I like he idea of just decriminalizing small amounts of marijuana, because it might reduce the number of arrests dramatically and boost support for the War on the Remainder of Drugs when everyone feels that things are much nicer and less unjust now that pot users aren't being locked up.

Prop 215, SB 420, and Measure Z all add up to make cannabis legal enough for me around here.
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WTF?
you're such a sour puss.

How can you not see this as a step in the right direction?
Complete legalization of all drugs doesnt happen over night, nothing does. Its process that will take time and small steps.
This though, this is a huge step.

glass half empty coolio?

and the thing about selling to minors and driving under the influence?
are you trying to be taboo or something.

decriminalization, medical weed etc is all much better than having it be straight out illegal.
 
as a means to help cali get out the hole finaincially i dont see how this could be a bad thing at all. but whatever ppl have they reason for opposing any and all things out there. it is good to read some of the arguments against this bill being presented instead of someone just saying yea thats stupid.
 
AfterGlow said:
Just like it should be a no brainer for Mass voters to pass Question 1 rescinding their sales tax on alcohol (they pay both a sales and an excise tax) and Question 3 to cut their state sales tax from 6.25% to 3%. But in 2008 they overwhelmingly voted NO to drop their state income tax rate from 5.3% to 2.5%. Who in their right mind votes to pay more in taxes? I have no faith that voters will make the right decision! :\
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Serious? I gladly vote to pay more in taxes. We've got it so EASY in this country. I've lived abroad extensively. I just returned from a year in India. I've seen what having it rough is all about. People want social services in this country. They take having clean water, sanitation, electricity, and paramedics that come when you call for granted....but they don't wanna pay the taxes that pay for these services. Its fucking idiotic. People expect to be treated when they go to the emergency room with no insurance. And they will be. I say tax tax tax.

And I'm torn on prop 19. Most grower friends REALLY dont want it. Fucks up their prices.:)
 
I pay a quarterly water bill for my clean water and sewage, I pay an electric company for my electricity, I pay for health insurance for medical care, I pay property takes for police, fire and schools.

Massachusetts is one of the most corrupt states in the US. There are PLENTY of state government funds to provide all of the other essential services. But politicians squander it on handouts and kickbacks for their pork barrel programs and their own pockets. You're an idiot for wanting to give your money away to crooks.

amanitadine said:
Serious? I gladly vote to pay more in taxes. We've got it so EASY in this country. I've lived abroad extensively. I just returned from a year in India. I've seen what having it rough is all about. People want social services in this country. They take having clean water, sanitation, electricity, and paramedics that come when you call for granted....but they don't wanna pay the taxes that pay for these services. Its fucking idiotic. People expect to be treated when they go to the emergency room with no insurance. And they will be. I say tax tax tax.

And I'm torn on prop 19. Most grower friends REALLY dont want it. Fucks up their prices.:)
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Has anyone actually read prop 19? I think they should re-write it and the commericials can say "prop 19, for stoners, by stoners" LOL.
 
I'd vote for it if I were there for sure.

That said, it is only decrimincalization; it still keeps the market underground and socially unacceptable and all that crap.

Step in the right direction though.

For real though; do laws against personal possession of weed in Cali actually get enforced? In Canada you just get your stuff confiscated and walk away; the only difference I could see with a decriminalization law is that instead of it being confiscated and walking away; you'd now have to pay a damn fine. ;)
 
Be careful there. One of the arguments AGAINST drug legalization is that society is better off without drugs. So your personal freedom gets sacrificed for the greater good.

Delsyd said:
yeh seriously.
Thats rediculous, and so fucking selfish.
How about the greater good?
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AfterGlow said:
I pay a quarterly water bill for my clean water and sewage, I pay an electric company for my electricity, I pay for health insurance for medical care, I pay property takes for police, fire and schools.

Massachusetts is one of the most corrupt states in the US. There are PLENTY of state government funds to provide all of the other essential services. But politicians squander it on handouts and kickbacks for their pork barrel programs and their own pockets. You're an idiot for wanting to give your money away to crooks.
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well thats cute if your water bill, electricity bill, medical insurance, etc actually paid for the expensive parts of the equation, ie infrastructure and the regulatory agencies and enforcers to see that the social services being provided meet the bill. But they dont. Look at a pie chart of your state or municipalities budget and see how it breaks down..you might be suprised.

I agree, the system is fucked, and all too much money gets squandered and wasted. But all of the wise uses of public money and actually useful social services I've experienced (Western Europe comes to mind) are taxed at a much higher rate than the overfed USA. People look at any sort of taxation and scream "socialism!" (as if that is such a dirty word) but want to continue the easy life as we have it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

But back on topic ala prop 19...the comment of written by stoners for stoners is quite adept. Its kind of embarassing really. I guess it is a step in the right direction, but I do deem it funny that the state now, after all this, wants a piece of the pie.....
 
amanitadine said:
well thats cute if your water bill, electricity bill, medical insurance, etc actually paid for the expensive parts of the equation, ie infrastructure and the regulatory agencies and enforcers to see that the social services being provided meet the bill. But they dont. Look at a pie chart of your state or municipalities budget and see how it breaks down..you might be suprised.
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It looks to me like a quarter of my States spending on "Remainder" could be eliminated. And if I'm already buying insurance for my health and my property taxes pay for schools, why should the state be paying for it too? And what do you know. Massachusetts wastes the same 26% on "Remainder".

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amanitadine said:
I agree, the system is fucked, and all too much money gets squandered and wasted. But all of the wise uses of public money and actually useful social services I've experienced (Western Europe comes to mind) are taxed at a much higher rate than the overfed USA. People look at any sort of taxation and scream "socialism!" (as if that is such a dirty word) but want to continue the easy life as we have it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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The wise uses in the USA are overshadowed by the corruption. Until they fix that, we shouldn't give them more money. It doesn't encourage them to use it any more wisely. It just goes fom your pocket to theirs.
 
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