Project Prevention pays addicts 300$ to be sterilized

^I said I'm not disputing that some of the people behind the project are shitty, just that so long as the women are also given the option of long term birth control instead of sterilization that the eugenics talk is blown out of proportion. Brand may have malicious intent, I don't know, but his possible private motives don't change the fact that the program already looks to support the option that many posters in this thread have suggested as a more reasonable alternative to permanent sterilization. Something long term like Norplant isn't as "user controlled" as some would like, but it's still a different beast than sterilization.
 
psood0nym said:
^I said I'm not disputing that some of the people behind the project are shitty, just that so long as the women are also given the option of long term birth control instead of sterilization that the eugenics talk is blown out of proportion. Brand may have malicious intent, I don't know, but his possible private motives don't change the fact that the program already looks to support the option that many posters in this thread have suggested as a more reasonable alternative to permanent sterilization. Something long term like Norplant isn't as "user controlled" as some would like, but it's still a different beast than sterilization.
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David Duke is a big fan of Norplant. And it's not irrelevant that the project's founder was initially seeking mandatory long-term contraception for drug-addicted females.
 
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^Yep, shitty people. You're right, those shitty people are relevant in assessing the motivations of the project and what it may try to become, but at the moment it hasn't really become that. Also, I found out that the project offers IUDs in addition to all the other methods of birth control, which are of course easily reversible.

Here's the stats according to a survey given to clients prior to getting birth control published on the project's site:

* 3,242 - Total number of paid clients.
* 14,232 - Total number of pregnancies. (Not including miscarriages)
* 10,124 - Total number of births (some resulted in multiple births).
* 4,224 - Total number of abortions
* 661 - Stillborn births. Also, another 341 had very brief lives, dying soon after birth from complications.
* 5,675- Total number of these children remaining in foster care to date.
* 1,059 have chosen Depo-Provera, 1,226 Tubal Ligation, 799 IUD, 85 Implanon, 38 Norplant, and 35 Vasectomies.
* 1,600 clients have been Caucasian, 884 African-American, 418 Hispanic, and 340 of other ethnic backgrounds.

Since now I see they offer vasectomies, and there are no less radical options for men, that means more serious issues ARE involved. However, their clients are 3,121 women and just 29 men. With such a low proportion of men opting for the surgery despite the project's billboard advertising and fliers being equally as visible by men as women, it's hard to believe many men are really being coerced to do something they wouldn't otherwise have desired because they're just so desperate for money.
 
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quikdrawcda said:
REALLY? THAT'S YOUR OPINION? "IT'S A CHOICE"?


You say yourself that drug addicts do "stupid" things...so how on earth can you say they have a choice?

Next time you're drunk or high beyond all belief, call me, I'll offer you $20,000 for some nude pics of you.
I'll post them on the net, and you can regret a permanent decision made in the fog of chemical influence for the remainder of your life.

This issue is just another bunch of "moral" people (using the term "people" loosely, I think they're animals) to control the "undesirables" they SHOULD be HELPING...

Tell me it's "a choice" when you hit rock bottom and need $300 to get YOUR next score... BULLSHIT
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Where are you getting any of this from? There's nothing about the process one would need to go through to get sterilized.

I'm sure it's a little more than a one-time walki-in deal.
 
Some of you are failing to see what I think an important point is. MOST if not all of this children will be put into foster programs. Which is a huge problem. The government ends up shelling out cash to keep care of this kids until a family takes them in. Even when they are born without any drug related birth defects, the trauma of moving young kids around to house to house and then back to a group home has severe effects on them, leading to more money being spent on years and years on counseling which is not always effective.

I realize that it is bad to offer drug addicts money for this, back when I was IVing dope everyday and I was a women I would have thought about this.

But most of these kids they have, especially when they have 10+ kids, will never feel loved, or have a steady food source until they are put in a foster program. And realistically, there is not enough foster parents out there to come close to taking in all these kids.
 
I think a more sensible option would be to offer free sterelization for drug addicts. This way there would not be any financial insentive to get money to score.
 
That is so wrong and disgusting! I find that whole notion offensive and they really are taking advantage of desperate people by offering them a quick buck like that. I really hope someone puts a stop to this, these 'Project Prevention' assholes should be ashamed!
 
^People who accept the offer should be ashamed, not the offering party. It's just a bad deal imo. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
^How is it a bad deal for women? They don't need to be sterilized, though from the project's stats in my previous post it looks like lots of them choose to be. Men do have to be sterilized, but less than one percent of the clients are male, suggesting that by and large the money isn't that enticing. Of course, maybe some men got vasectomies because of desperation, but it's not hard to imagine with such a small percentage of men opting in that they simply wanted a vasectomy anyways.

Women can also get paid to use an IUD if they choose to. Depo-Provera is another option for them, and that only lasts three months. I'm sure they can't get paid more than once for using something like Depo-Provera, so after 3 months of no pregnancy there's no longer an incentive to prevent pregnancy if they don't want to. Sounds like a pretty decent deal to me.

Despite it's blunt mode of operation, it's hard to deny the program is preventing some nasty things if we believe their client's survey results (taken prior to receiving birth control or sterilization):

14,232 - Total number of pregnancies. (Not including miscarriages)
* 10,124 - Total number of births (some resulted in multiple births).
* 4,224 - Total number of abortions
* 661 - Stillborn births. Also, another 341 had very brief lives, dying soon after birth from complications.
* 5,675- Total number of these children remaining in foster care to date.
 
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Tommyboy723 said:
I think a more sensible option would be to offer free sterelization for drug addicts. This way there would not be any financial insentive to get money to score.
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lol ya now every junkie will be calling all their junkie friends getting them to go get sterilized so they can so score dope when their sick :\.
 
^except for that women don't have to be sterilized to receive money according to the program, only use an IUD, so they won't do that. This article doesn't mention the other options because an accurate article isn't as interesting as an article that omits them.
 
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so wait, psoodonym, im slow, lets get this straight..

You say that they are not actually sterilizing people but putting them on "long term birth control"?

So at some point they can still have children?

How long term is this birth control

do just the women get long term birth control but the men get sterilized?

now im confused
 
The United States Government is party to the 1948 Convention On The Prevention And Punishment of the Crime of Genocide ("Genocide Convention"). As a Treaty of the United States , the Genocide Convention is therefore "the Supreme Law of the land" under Article VI of the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. Government has also passed implementing legislation which substantially adopts the Genocide Convention and makes any violation of the Convention punishable under federal law. 18 U.S.C. § 1901.

Article II of the Genocide Convention provides:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within a group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
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Genocide? Actually the war on drugs seems like genocide.
 
smokeymcpot42088 said:
so wait, psoodonym, im slow, lets get this straight..

You say that they are not actually sterilizing people but putting them on "long term birth control"?

So at some point they can still have children?

How long term is this birth control

do just the women get long term birth control but the men get sterilized?

now im confused
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They are sterilizing women who chose to be, but the women have impermanent options, too. The stats are on the project's site, and are reportedly derived from surveys of their clients prior to participation in the project. Here's what they report:

1,059 have chosen Depo-Provera, 1,226 Tubal Ligation, 799 IUD, 85 Implanon, 38 Norplant, and 35 Vasectomies.

Depo-Provera is an injection that lasts 3 months. That's the shortest birth control of the options they offer that they pay addicts to use. Users can have children again after 3 months if they don't receive another injection. It looks like many choose this option.

Men must be sterilized, since there's no alternative means besides the obvious to prevent them from impregnating women. Here the strongest ethical objections to the project's efforts hold. However, since only 35 men have participated, less than 1 percent of the number of woman participants, it's difficult to argue that the monetary incentive is really that enticing to desperate male addicts, or participation would be far higher.

My best guess is that because there are some scary right-wingers behind the program, oppositional media have, perhaps unconsciously--but more likely because it riles up their readers--participated in framing the project's conductors as intransigent eugenicists by omitting or underemphasising key information.
 
Huaca said:
Genocide? Actually the war on drugs seems like genocide.
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Maybe not this sterilization issue, but I tend to agree.
For example:

"(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; "

This is what the CIA did when they spread crack around the ghettos.
 
^psoodonym, Thanks for the breakdown man, appreciated.

Yeaa it does seem a bit sensationalized when you look into it.

they should probably just get rid of the male and female permanent options if they don't want to catch flack....but its not nearly as bad as I thought/it sounded.
 
quikdrawcda said:
Barbarians, reminiscent of the Nazi eugenics programs...
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Sorry, but: YAWN. Please don't compare a voluntary procedure with Nazi policies just because you don't agree with it. It makes you look very stupid.

I think it's unethical, although it shouldn't be illegal. If they didn't give the addicts money it would be just fine as far as I'm concerned. I wonder if you could get some anti-abortionist bible thumpers excited about this.

edit: I don't think the "What if they're in withdrawal and looking for their next fix"-argument works. Surely they're not doing any medical procedures while people are high or wd'ing.
 
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This happens because the world population is increasing at too high of a rate.

They're trying to buy time figuratively this way, and it won't really work out. For now, it's a way for us to make a quick buck.

Except my sterility is not worth $300, fuck that BS.
 
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