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Preventing/Reducing Amphetamine Neurotoxicity

PsychonautRyan

PsychonautRyan

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 4, 2012
Messages
121
Location
Kansas City
I just started a 20 milligram dosage prescription of Adderall that my psychiatrist wrote me this afternoon. After filling it, I took it an hour before I had work (I've never had more fun cleaning in my life!), the plateau lasted for three hours give-or-take, and I could still feel somewhat stimulated even eight hours later. It's over twelve hours later right now, and I'm starting to feel tired. Anyway, I can definitely see that a dosage more-or-less of what I've been prescribed would be highly-effective for my concentration, motivation and suppressing my ADHD symptoms in my day-to-day life. My psychiatrist was helpful, and suggested that the pills could be cut in half, and I could "experiment" with the optimal dosage level on an "as-needed" basis. Even while I was still euphoric three or four hours after I took Adderall, I was definitely craving more (which I'm aware is the first-step to developing tolerance, dependence and addiction), so I had to hold that temptation at bay and try to be content with my current intake.

However, I am concerned about the possible neurotoxicity of amphetamines, and how does it compare to other psychoactives that are neurotoxic (such as MDMA/MDA, cocaine, PCP, alcohol and methamphetamine, etc.). It wouldn't surprise me if heavy amphetamine binges (several hundred milligrams over the course of a day, prolonged for several days until an inevitable "crash"), is neurotoxic, but have the regular, continual but small doses that are used to treat ADHD generally neurotoxic? It would be ironic that the substance that I'm banking on for academic success would only lead to cognitive impairment several years down-the-road :\. Also, if that is the case, would supplements such as a B-complex, 5-HTP, acetyl-l-carnitine, omega-3 fish oils/DHA, or ginkgo biloba be effective in preventing/reducing the neurotoxicity associated with amphetamine intake? Any other recommended guidelines for avoiding neurotoxicity, as well as preventing tolerance and addictive potential to regular amphetamine use?
 
I don't know if you said it (too long of a post) but chelated magnesium, 2-300 mg with your dose, 100 towards the end, and 200 on the comedown (these numbers can vary).

Make sure you eat normally throughout the day, even though you don't want to. Force the food down, and if your mouth is too dry, take a bite of food then a drink of water and mix it around in your mouth and swallow. This makes such a big difference on the effects and comedown I can't even begin to explain it.

Eat healthy, and if you are already in shape, exercise after you come down and on the days you don't take it. Make sure you're getting healthy sleep as well. Don't re-dose throughout the day either.

There's probably more but that's my two cents (I take vyvanse and adderall every day).

Sorry, just noticed your other question. MDMA, especially in large and frequent doses, is much more toxic than regular amphetamine. Same thing with methamphetamine.
However, large and irresponsable doses of regular amphetamines are very neuro-toxic as well.
 
LOGan1314 said:
I don't know if you said it (too long of a post) but chelated magnesium, 2-300 mg with your dose, 100 towards the end, and 200 on the comedown (these numbers can vary).

Make sure you eat normally throughout the day, even though you don't want to. Force the food down, and if your mouth is too dry, take a bite of food then a drink of water and mix it around in your mouth and swallow. This makes such a big difference on the effects and comedown I can't even begin to explain it.

Eat healthy, and if you are already in shape, exercise after you come down and on the days you don't take it. Make sure you're getting healthy sleep as well. Don't re-dose throughout the day either.

There's probably more but that's my two cents (I take vyvanse and adderall every day).

Sorry, just noticed your other question. MDMA, especially in large and frequent doses, is much more toxic than regular amphetamine. Same thing with methamphetamine.
However, large and irresponsable doses of regular amphetamines are very neuro-toxic as well.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I have an extremely high metabolism, in fact, my psychiatrist joked that she would kill to have a similar metabolism, even when I have a good diet my weight still hovers at 105 pounds. The fact that I'm concerned about trying to gain, or at least maintain my current weight, should be a deterrence in itself against any excessive use. Anyway, I'll look into chelated magnesium as a preventative supplement against neurotoxicity.
 
Also, if you can afford it, buy some Delsym for the active ingredient DXM. It prevents building up a tolerance for speed aka Adderall. i use to take 15-30mg DXM before I take adderall and then after Im done using i take another 10-30mg of DXM. It is a NMDA antagonist. In layman terms it allows you to reach that same euphoria EVERY time you take the same dose of Adderall, instead of using more and more because you've gotten a high tolerance to the Adderall through binging or even just taking it everyday. Dr Bob supports patients taking DXM.

heres a link to Dr Bobs site.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030923/msgs/263518.html

The combo that i use to Reduce Harm and thats what this site was founded upon goes as follows:
-Chelated Magnesium ( dont get the one w/ Oxide as main ingrediant. It has low bioavailability. Get chelated glycinate or gluconate, about 300mg a day.
-Delsym. Costs $17 a bottle. I take 15-60mg a day to prevent tolerance to Adderall, which is key. Dont skimp and get any other brand with a bunch of other active ingrediants. You want ONLY DXM, which is what is in Delsym brand. Get the Orange package.
-Have your Psychiatrist prescribe you Clonodine to kill the physiological effects for when you have to crash. Its better to save the Adderall, get some much needed sleep than spend another 8 hours awake from chasing a high. Tell your Dr that your schedule is erratict and you takle the Adderall not always in the morning. He'll understand.
-Xanax. I take it just to chill out a little when I am tweaking. Like .5mg is a good dose.
-Seroquel, Risperdoll, Trazadone are all life savers for when you need to knock yourself out cold to prevent things from turning out badly.
-**If you cant get the scripts for the xanax, clonodine or above listed psychotropics, take 100mg benedryl/antihistamine for when you need to fall asleep.

Drink at least a half gallon of water a day, make sure to eat at least 1200 calories, hopefully not junkfood ( you might as well learn up opn proper nutrition while you're using Adderall ) And you should be aware of higher resting heart rate from using amphetamines. 225 minus your age is your Max heart rate. To get your hearts beat per minute hold your pointer and middle fingers against the side of your neck with your right hand while looking at a clock. Count the bumps coming through your neck for 15 seconds. Take that number and multiply it time 4. Thats your bpm.

And speed will have you doing small motor "rewarding" type tasks. Its common for tweakers to spend days upon days jerking off or having sex w/ random strangers in bathhouses. Just dont get psychologically addicted to all the good porn the internet offers and dont be ashamed/feel guilty about how good 3 hour masterbation session feels on adderall.
 
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Thanks, I'll look into chelated magnesium, as well as low-doses of DXM to address the neurotoxicity and tolerance of amphetamines. Also, if the neuropathology of ADHD is contingent on impaired dopamine in the cerebral cortex, do those with ADHD have a slower, built-up tolerance to amphetamines if it enhances synaptic dopamine release, and therefore suppresses/mediates most of the symtpoms, than compared to neurotypicals (those that have normal electro-chemical brain functioning, relatively-speaking) developing amphetamine tolerance? Or do those with ADHD have slower dopamine replenishment since the release was already impaired to begin with?
 
theres this new molecule called fuckyourpsychiatristdontdoampbromin,its extremly effective yet very overlooked

doctors prescribing bullshit - check

corporations getting fed zillion dollars for selling shit - check

media and goverment corrupted to promote bullshit and surpress real cure - check
 
Let's stay away from conspiracy theories about the possible malevolence of the pharmaceutical-industrial complex...

Anyway, I've been on amphetamines for almost a week (starting this Friday), the only day I abstained was Sunday, I only took 10 milligrams on Saturday, every other day has been 20 to 30 milligrams, taken in two separate dosages. When I first took 20 milligrams I felt extremely motivated ("pumped" would be a better way to describe it), ecstatic and driven, these last two days, I've noticed that with 30 milligrams, I only feel focused, a somewhat "charged" motivation, and attentive, with only mild euphoria/sense-of-well-being and to a lesser extent than when I first took Adderall. Obviously my tolerance to amphetamines has already manifested itself, but still highly-effective at treating my attention deficit. Eventually, if I continually take Adderall, will it just become totally ineffective at treating my ADHD because of tolerance at the same dose or will the effects be static (unchanging) if I just want to use it for concentration and not recreational euphoria?
 
PsychonautRyan said:
Let's stay away from conspiracy theories about the possible malevolence of the pharmaceutical-industrial complex...
Click to expand...

conspiracy theory? yeah,for sure goverment isnt muppet of corporations... I mean who on earth would take command from someone who will offer him zillions of dollars...

all these xanaxs and adderals are honestly the finest cure avaliable,the goverment and pharmacy corporations never lie and their only goal is to make people healthy and happy 8)
 
^^Dude we get what you're saying, trust me. But there are some people that actually need therapeutic doses of these drugs. However, I do admit it is a very small percentage of the people who are actually prescribed them.

Psychonaut Ryan- For most people, amphetamine tolerance sky-rockets extremely quick, especially when taken every day. From what I gather, you took 40-60 mg a couple of the days? If you really want the therapeutic benefit of your meds do not take more than prescribed, and definately don't re-dose. Take as many days off as possible, exercise and eat healthy during those days, and your tolerance should drop somewhat.
 
No, it was 30 milligrams at most each day. The psychiatrist prescribed me 20 milligrams, and I could take half-a-tablet or a full one, once or twice a day, so the maximum prescribed would be 40 milligrams, which I haven't taken yet, her guideline was that I could experiment with which dosage worked and which didn't on an "as-needed" basis. Anyway, I'm on spring break now, and I'm taking a B-100 vitamin complex since it's a dopamine precursor, so I have 11 days before I'm back at school, so my tolerance should drop off somewhat.
 
LOGan1314 said:
^^Dude we get what you're saying, trust me. But there are some people that actually need therapeutic doses of these drugs. However, I do admit it is a very small percentage of the people who are actually prescribed them.
Click to expand...

fair play man,but still.... adderal is lets not lie and call it by its real name AMPHETAMINE.... amphetamine is no good,toxic,addictive,tolerance,insominia,elevated heart rate,cardio vascular problmes and on top of that you are sponsoring colosal monster that is destrying the world... I bet my nuts that there is better way to treat anything than giving them amphetamine
 
you would reccomend good ol' psychedelics then? Take a psyche' feel a little spiritual, instead of taking 30mg of Adderall and having increased focus to perform better at school which will lead to better things in life?
 
I've found that nootropics like hydergine, piracetam, aniracetam, vinpocetine, etc. help me stabilize faster after taking doses of things like LSD, MDMA, etc.

I believe nootropics are somewhat neuroprotective, but I don't have science to backup this claim.
 
beagleboy said:
you would reccomend good ol' psychedelics then? Take a psyche' feel a little spiritual, instead of taking 30mg of Adderall and having increased focus to perform better at school which will lead to better things in life?
Click to expand...

I dont think people with OPs symptops should take any kind of psych/amp,be it amphetamine lsd or whatever of this kind every day

I would start with maximum healthy diet,freqent excersising,and as much time as possible spend in clear nature enviroment....

the air is poisioned,the veggies are poisoned,the meat is poisoned,all these pesticides,steroids,antibiotics and all kinds of toxins everywhere,my first step would be to grow my own natural veggies and food and not take amphetamine everyday

if anything,piracetam with lecithin,I believe this to be safe and have vastly possitive effects on brain,I am not sure if it would help with ADHD but I can concetrate extremly well on it and love it for this effect,I take it anytime I am going to listen music becose its like my brain can proces waveform in greater detail

curing symptomps < curing source of problems

Adderal is pretty much like meth,and pharmacy corporations are pretty much drug dealers,their goal is to make money by selling,and they will kill,lie and manipulate anywhere they can to push their dirty agenda,dont support these people,you are nothing more for them than slave,a statistic,a disposable human resource
 
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The last time I dropped acid was three weeks ago, and now I think I'm taking a long-term, indefinite break from psychedelic drugs in order to apply the insights from my trips to improving my everyday life. If anything, I see amphetamines as being an academic tool, to be taken occasionally. But I don't see it in the same way as LSD: with amphetamines there are no feelings of wisdom or insight, no heightened creativity during and extending after the trip, no extraordinary sensations, and no rejuvenated perspective on life lasting for days, it's not at all "mind-opening" or "expanding my consciousness", just a stimulated, focused motivation that I use as a temporary upper for a couple hours when I would otherwise be lethargic and inattentive from my studies.

Anyway, if I'm wanting to take NMDA antagonists such as DXM or chelated magnesium to negate any tolerance to amphetamines, what time in the day should I take it in order for the anti-tolerance effects to manifest?
 
methamphetamine and a moderate dose of adderall/vyvanse are very, very, very different :/
 
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