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Bupe precipitated withdrawal in people that are non-dependent??

Nightlites

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Messages
126
Well the question is...

Would someone who is NOT PHYSICALLY DEPENDANT on opiates experience (precipitated) withdraws if they were to take SUBOXONE while there were opiates on there receptors ?

Now I've seen some talk about the subject here but no threads about it or any decent debate about it just a post or two lost in the endless SUBOXONE mega thread...

Obviously I UTFSE but found nothing of any use so I started this thread because its worthy of not being instantly dismissed And thrown into the mega thread and not getting the insight from peoples.

Sooooo....

The reason one would experience PW is because the bupe Is pulling the opiates off of the receptors.
And if the person is physically dependant then once opiates start leaving the receptors the person would start withdrawing because they need opiates on them constantly.

But the thing is... if someone's not physically dependant then once the bupe pull the opiates off the Receptors they would NOT be thrown into withdraws because the person doesn't get sick when there receptors have no opiates on them correct?

The person would. Possibly feel like the day after getting high... an "opiate hangover"
Just some slight discomfort maybe mild muscle aches like they would feel after being on them then all of a sudden not on them.

Now this is. Just my theory and if the reason you go into PW is something besides having opiates removed from the receptors in a dependant person causing them to rapidly withdrawl while there "dry" until the bupe can attach to them, releiving the person and stopping the WD'S...

Anybody have any input into this or maybe why that's correct or incorrect please throw some insight into the debate here its been driving me nuts lol

N I was kinda worried because my friend who's somewhat "opiate niave" was about to take some sub but told me he ate some vics the night before or that morning...

Thanks

And to the mods...
If u decide to just dismiss this and just dispose of it...
(Bupe megathread lol) can we atleast ride this out a little before it trashed? :) hehe
Thanks one more time lol

Lights.
 
if you are truly non dependent than you wont feel precip w/ds...you probably will just feel less high
 
yes people who have no opiate tolerance at all can experience precipitated withdrawal
 
Bupe is a partial agonist. It will displace other opiates from receptors but it only partially activates them - it doesn't do nothing like a neutral antagonist would. Therefore no, it won't precipitate withdrawal unless you're dependent on full agonist opiates. In fact, you'll just feel a buzz or get incredibly sick depending on the dose you take.
 
Ok that sounds about rite to me.
And the comment about actully getting high when the suboxone is taken seems to make sence as well lol
Has anyone actully tried this theory out in "real" life? Ha
And thanks fellow bluelighters :)


Lights.
 
yes people who have no opiate tolerance at all can experience precipitated withdrawal

Absolutely true. No dependence needed, just opiates in your receptors and something suddenly kicking them out is by itself enough to cause P/W. It won't happen in everyone, in fact most people probably won't feel anything, but some sensitive individuals could experience hellish withdrawal when they've never done an opiate 2 days in a row in their life.
 
Precipitated withdrawl is the biggest bullshit ever. And discovering that changed my life (prob for the worst if im being honest.)

Look I've been on suboxone for going on four years now. I used to slip up and relapse every now and then. Then i'd try to wait until I started withdrawling to get back on the suboxone. Sometimes I would judge it right and be good to go. Other times not. Get sick as hell for a couple of hours and then fall asleep. (The worst was when it happened at work. Ugh)

So I had some big school thing the next morning one time. I didn't want to deal with it before or during, so the night before I intended to put myself into withdrawl. I was still kinda high and took some suboxone and laid down and waited for the withdrawl to come. Nothing. Never came.

So now I've discovered that if you take the suboxone while still high, it's an easy, painless, precipitated withdrawl-free transition. And I've done it dozen a times since. Probably do it tonight. I'm convinced that doctors have cooked up the whole thing as a boogeyman to keep people from relapsing.
 
try snorting your suboxone. i guarantee youll go strait to w/d. it's definitely not a made up thing.
 
im with dopefiend you would be suprised how awesome it works when you snort it and how little you need! dont forget its around 50X stronger than morphine!!!!! Also i save $ cuz i only go trhough 4 MG / use which is about 4-5 days
 
dMV i found the exact asme thing happened to me, i was unaware that it was suppose to enduce wd but it was just blocked when i ate a perk and my half life wasnt done with the Subutex. But its a miracle drug i dont know how i would be getting through my school day with out sometimes!
 
try snorting your suboxone. i guarantee youll go strait to w/d. it's definitely not a made up thing.

I'm not saying its not real. I'm saying the possibility of it happening isn't necessary. If you take suboxxone while you're still high you won't go through precipitated withdrawls. You just transfer over from doope to suboxone (and you won't be able to get high for at least 36 hours).

And why would I want to snort suboxone anyway?

im with dopefiend you would be suprised how awesome it works when you snort it and how little you need! dont forget its around 50X stronger than morphine!!!!! Also i save $ cuz i only go trhough 4 MG / use which is about 4-5 days

Not sure what you're saying here. You're getting high off of suboxone? Or snorting suboxone stretches it out further?

dMV i found the exact asme thing happened to me, i was unaware that it was suppose to enduce wd but it was just blocked when i ate a perk and my half life wasnt done with the Subutex. But its a miracle drug i dont know how i would be getting through my school day with out sometimes!

Suboxone is most certainly a miracle drug. Before we had suboxone, we had methadone. I was on methadone for a year and I honestly believe its just as bad as dope. (The withdrawl was worst than anything I've ever experienced in my life.) I plan on staying on suboxone the rest of my life. And I'm perfectly content with that.
 
I'm not saying its not real. I'm saying the possibility of it happening isn't necessary. If you take suboxxone while you're still high you won't go through precipitated withdrawls. You just transfer over from doope to suboxone (and you won't be able to get high for at least 36 hours).
There are a lot of people who have taken buprenorphine while still high or coming down off a full agonist and gone through acute terrible precipitated withdrawal for a short time as if they had just gotten a shot of naloxone. If that didn't happen to you then you are lucky but please don't assume it doesn't exist and then go around telling everybody it's a sham and they will feel fine.

This still doesn't answer the question of whether or not someone who is a nontolerant complete opiate virgin will undergo short precipitated withdrawal by administrative of a highly competitive antagonist while under the effects of a full agonist. The alternative being it will just bring them back to baseline.
 
^^ I was about to say the same thing. Personally I have taken suboxone a few hours after using heroin and not gotten precipitated withdrawal multiple times - But i have also gotten precipitated withdrawal 12-16 hours after on another occasion. There are many variables.
 
The only time I got P/W is when I shot it. I was wicked sick right away, like fall over and throw up sick.
 
I'm a mutant or something? I don't know how I'm not getting p/w and others are. Did it today. Last used suboxone early Tuesday evening, started using dope again late Thursday night, got high for three days, today, about 8 hours after last using, I drop 4 mg of suboxone. Nothing. I'm not high anymore but I feel absolutely fine. I've done this probably upward of 30 times now. Its basically my weekend routine at this point. On suboxone during the week, high on the wekends.

Before i'd try to wait until I started getting sick before dropping some suboxone. Prob half the time I misjudged it and went into p/w. No more. I don't know why it would only be me.

I wonder if there is a different reaction between suboxone and heroin and suboxone and oxys (for example)? Or maybe a tolerance level changes the dynamics from person to person? Or perhaps I have just enough suboxone still in me to keep me from p/w? (I still get high though)

(And like I said before, it's prob bad I figured this out. Its so much easier to use now. That fear of p/w really made me step away from the ledge most times.)
 
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Eight hours afterwords is enough time for a fair amount of the heroin to wear off so that could be part of it, but the time you took it before your test while you were still high is surprising.

By the way when you say you used to go into p/w (i.e. precipitated withdrawal) that is taken to mean you used to have the bupe displace your full agonists.
Before i'd try to wait until I started getting sick before dropping some suboxone. Prob half the time I misjudged it and went into p/w. No more. I don't know why its only me.
Perhaps you just meant to say you misjudged and went into withdrawal.
 
I don't feel that non-dependent people would experience precipitated withdrawal's. Withdrawal's are the symptom of a body craving a substance that it has grown used to. The body has come to need it to function normally. Withdrawal's occur when that substance is suddenly taken away, whether by no longer ingesting the substance or by taking a substance that renders it ineffective. A non dependent person 's body does not need the opiate, so taking bupe would only hasten the removal of the substance. The effects would be the same as letting the body metabolize it and nature taking it's course. The first time I took a Vicodin, it was nice and when it was gone, no hard feelings lol. I figure it would have been the same if I had taken bupe, although I do agree that since I have never taken bupe, I would have just gotten higher, or very sick instead. Just my opinion.
 
I must re-open this thread due to personal experience.
I've been on subutex for almost 1yr. In that time I can remember incidents where I had taken small doses (say 20mg) of hydrocodone then shortly after (within hours) taken subutex (insuffulated, maybe 4-8mg) without going into precipitated withdrawls. Well, for the past week or so I have been on heroin (no subutex) with a dosage of roughly .25g a day, smoked. I did IV a few times but it's been days since my last shot - I have been smoking. Yesterday I obtained a quarter gram, smoked all but say 75mg and left that for this morning. I smoked it this morning, and it helped but I still didn't feel "right." Wanting to feel better I kept shuffling the idea of taking bupe, but was afraid of going into p/w's. I read a number of forums... waited about 1.5 hours then insuffulated roughly .5mg of bupe. Waited 15m - no feeling of withdrawl. After 15m of the first dose of bupe I sniffed about another .5mg. Waited 10m or so... then another. Point of the story is so far I am at about 1.5 mg of subs in my system right now and have experienced no feelings of withdrawl. I plan to do another .5mg line after this post (it has been +1hr since I started these low doses of bupe) putting me at about 2mg. So far, all I can tell is it's making me feel better. The gear this morning just wasn't enough for me ... I didn't wait long either (just less than 2h after smoking the last of it) before introducing small amounts of bupe in my system. I will continue these .5mg lines until I reach about the 3-4mg doseage and will post the results (granted this is an estimated dosage after carefully cutting an 8mg pill into quarters, then crushing 1 quarter and dosing it out into about 5 lines totaling about 2mg)
I guess there are a lot of variables considering precipitated withdrawl due to the fact some people don't seem to experience whereas others (the vast majority) do. I will update this post later today and would appreciate anybody's input.
 
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