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Opioids precipitated WD! oh noes

'medicine cabinet'

'medicine cabinet'

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
7,243
Location
Baltimore
so, last night was quite possibly one of the worst experiences i can even recall. so i have been on metadone for a while now, about a year. have been on 110mgs for most all of that time except in the beginning when they were working my dose up.

anyways my sister comes over last night to smoke some pot with me and she has been messing around with oxy and opana and stuff, and tells me she is clean off all of it. She pulls out a little pill bottle and i asked her what was in it and she wouldnty show me. last month she was really WDing for her first time and she told my parents and they grounded her and ect ect....weve all been there.

So she dumps out the pill botlle on the table and among some crappy muscle relaxers she had half an 8mg sub, and a chunk of white pill. i asked her what it was and she said it was an old piece of opana she had in there. i told her she needs to cut it out and said you should let me try that piece of pill. i knew it would be like putting a drop of water in the ocean, but i didnt want her to do it bc i dont want to see her get addicyed again.

she agreed. i did the small line of powder and about 45mins later i start to get that feeling of oh shit i am about to go into WD. and an hour later, i was in WD hell. turns out she lied to me and it was really a chunk of subutex> or maybe even revia, i dnt know. i was cold sweating and was thrashing around. i cant remember even feeling that horrible that quick.

i took a few fioricet and flexerils and smoked weed and like 2 hourds after that i was knocked out enough to fall asleep. when i woke up i still felt kinda off, so i went and got my methadone and took a few more fioricet to help sedate me.

my question, i have another 110mgs of metadone, now will that small amount of bupe have any affinity on the receptors considering it was a really small amount? im thinking maybe 1mg, maybe less. im lucky it wasnt more of the pill.

and yes, i never EVER take something if i dont know what it is, but it was my younger sister, and i have no reason notto believe it wasnt a small piece of opana like she said.

also for those who use opana Er, is the center hard and waxy like an OC, or is it hard and crumbly like a dilaudid?

i have been in precip WD b4, but OMFG this was horrendous.. i knew something wasnt right when my nose started running and my bowels started getting angry. if anyone reading this has a question if you can do sub after methadone. FUCK NO!
 
No you are correct.

Subutex has no naloxone therefore theres no way it can send you into precitated wd.

Something is very confusing here...
 
It's the actual buprenorphine itself that causes PWD. Bupe throws the methadone off the receptors because it has a higher binding affinity. Don't take bupe if your on methadone.
 
love2party is correct.

Buprenorphine has a higher binding affinity than even Narcan (naloxone). Because of this, Suboxone and Subutex are effectively the same drug.
 
^ I've been wrong before but im fairly confident that the bupe itself isnt what causes the precipitated wd. I have done a shot of dope just a couple hours after taking subutex and I got high. Now on the other hand I shot once ten hours after taking half of a suboxone and didnt feel a thing and had mild wd. So IME the naloxone is what causes them for me.
 
Oh dear god why do people still believe nalaxone can out compete bupe? Suboxone, or subutex, either one, can throw you into precipitated withdrawal. Nalaxone is basically ineffective at the dosage that is in suboxone, and buperenorphine out competes it anyways.

Sorry you had such a horrible experience, I have been there once before during my methadone use. Hopefully you don't make the same mistake again. This isn't OD material though, nothing new/exciting to talk about and we all know that bupe out competes nalaxone, right?

Thanks

Mike
 
^ I totally agree w you there that bupe out comptes naloxone for sure. Id take a script od subutex over suboxone anyday. And I was unaware that the bupe itself caused PWD. That just havent been the case IMPSE. But ya learn somethin new everyday, thats why I love it here :)
 
C_mc1 said:
^ I totally agree w you there that bupe out comptes naloxone for sure. Id take a script od subutex over suboxone anyday. And I was unaware that the bupe itself caused PWD. That just havent been the case IMPSE. But ya learn somethin new everyday, thats why I love it here :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, but all I am saying is that suboxone and subutex act virtually the same exact way. The nalaxone in suboxone does absolutely nothing. Nada. Zippo. Subutex/Suboxone both work the same, both cause precipitated withdrawals due to the bupe. The only difference really is taste/brand.

I just don't understand why you would prefer subutex over suboxone, or vice versa? They don't act any differently.

And I am not certain you understand what precipitated withdrawal is. If you have opiates on your receptors, and then take suboxone/subutex before you're in w/d, the bupe is obviously stronger than other opiates (heroin, oxy, whatever) so the bupe will instantly rip off all the other opiates and throw you into rapid withdrawal.

It isn't the other way around.. If you took some suboxone/subutex, and then shot some dope and didn't get high, well that is quite simply before you took enough bupe to block the effects of the other opiates.

Doing dope after subs can still work, as long as you do enough of it. It won't send you into withdrawals. Taking bupe after shooting dope too soon, though, will throw you into precipitated withdrawal..
 
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I understand what percipiated wd is. IME I have never gotten PWD while taking subutex so I was under the impression the Naloxone in the suboxone is what caused it. But I was obviously mistaken and or misinformed. Now after taking bupe is it the bupe itself that keeps you from getting high or would that be the naloxone in suboxone?
 
Cmc, it's the bupe that creates the blockade on your opiate receptor sites. Naloxone is only active for about 45 minutes (in the Suboxone formula). Naloxone essentially does nothing but add to the side effect profile of Suboxone, including headaches. Bupe is what kicks the other receptors off the site, not naloxone. To the OP, I've been through that living hell known as precip. wd. I was taking fentanyl and the day after the fent was gone, I took 30mg of methadone. Like an idiot, I only waited 24+ hours and dosed the sub and went into precip wd that lasted about 5 hours. Hellish and brutal. You MUST wait AT LEAST 72 HOURS before dosing bupe AFTER METHADONE.
 
Thanks SW and BP for the info. Like I said before I was most certainly grossly misinformed. I thought the naloxone itself was the opiate "blocker" so to speak. Perhaps I have had this expirience due to the fact that when I had taken subutex I wasnt nearly dependant on opaites as I was when I took the suboxone (that or I may have used it properly and waited long enough before dosing and when I took suboxone I did not). Either way I am glad that now I have a better understanding.

Methadone has a much longer halflife than heroin correct? So if you must wait 72+ hours after a methadone dose to take bupe, how long should you wait after heroin? Now I know everyones body is different ect ect. But is there a general rule of thumb about how many hours or something you should be into WD before taking your bupe?
 
Heroin goes by the general rule of thumb, which is waiting about 24 hours. You are correct, because methadone has such a long halflife, it is advised that you wait at least 72hrs before dosing Suboxone/Subutex. Like you said, everyone is different. Just to play it safe, make sure you are in mild to moderate withdrawal before dosing subs and start with one or two mg and work your way up.
 
Wow, I guess I was wrong. I never really liked subs so I kept myself away from em as much as I could. Sorry about the misinformation OP. If Suboxone and Subutex do the same thing then why do they even put the naltrexone in Suboxone?
 
^To placate the DEA and FDA.

Basically the company that marketed Suboxone included naloxone (Narcan) so they could claim it was "abuse-resistant" to allow it to be classified as Schedule III in the United States, opposed to most opiates, which are Schedule II.

At least that's how I see it...
 
I get sick after 4 hours of dosing, so the only time I PWD was when I shot 8mg of bupe at exactly 4 hours... it was really bad. Like on the floor screaming bad, felt like a pussy.
 
^God damn man, that's horrible. 8mg IV is a friggen' huge ass dose. I shot 1 mg about 36 hours after my last dose of methadone, and as soon as i pushed the plunger down I knew I was in deep shit. My vein's/whole body turned to freezing cold burning kerosene, so dizzy I was throwing up, I am glad nobody else was home for that hour or two I was struggling since they definitely would have thought I was dying. I alsmost wish I did. Highly un-recommended.

When it comes to heroin, 24 hours seems to be the most common answer, but in rehabs they only wait 10-12 hours.. The couple times I was there EVERYONE did their last shot in the fucking parking lot before they came in, and everyone got their first dose of subutex at around 7pm. ~12 hours after. Everyone was fine (as far as I know) now at only 12 hours I was barely sick physically, but they gave us all subutex less than 12 hours later. The only people who had to wait were the people on methadone, but 48 hours with no methadone is a piece of cake. 72 hours is when the withdrawals really start to come on, albeit slowly.
 
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