Bupe precip wds and scared shitless

[darkvein]

Ive been on a kick for a couple of days and I started it out with precip withdrawls from subs and I am terrified to take suboxone again. So I;m sitting here fucking miserable. But yesterday my breathing was erratic as i lay there with my eyes practically rolling back in my head. Before i took the sub i was shooting up all kinds of large doses of opiates like 8 or 9 30 mg roxys or 8 8mg dillys. It was a fucking kick in the face having all that ripped out of my brain.
it was like 430 when i took it and I went through hell right now im laying in my bed sweating profusely and wondering if i should take it again...

 

[Froski]

Need more info mang, when did u last dose a full agonist? You could find all the info you need on this subject via the search feature... Hence why my post count is so low and I've been a member for 2 years, search is your friend


Edit* just saw the 430 time, but was it this morning? Yesterday?

 

[darkvein]

yesterday was when i took the sub at 430 took a bunch of opiates like 37 and a half hours ago and i utfse but i didnt see anything quite like it with the precip wds and stuff and i feel sooo bad

 

[kanyeknievel]

I would think I'd know this by now, but what exactly precipated withdrawal? When does it happen? I've been on subxone for just over a month now.. i wont go into this will i? Sorry Im not helping I just wanted to know what exactly is it and how it happens

 

['medicine cabinet']

^precipitaed WD is when someone who is dependent on opiates/opioids is given an antagonist of some type, in the case of buprenorphine, it is a partial agonist/antagonist so it does have the pharmacological capability to induce WD, in the same way a full antagonist like narcan will help bring someone back who has overdosed--just on a smaller scale.

it is super unpleasant...to say the least lol

to the OP, not using for 38 hours is just a little too short...even with a short acting opi like dilaudid, mix in the oxy and you would be looking at more like a full 2 -2.5 days before you were actually sick enough to take the bupe so there was nothing left on the receptors to be kicked off.

i realize that is useless to know now, since you are already feeling shitty,

i would probably take more bupe, its not like its going to throw you into more WD, that first dose is what dose it, and if you took like an 8mg pill, that is plenty to rid your receptors of any trace of a full agonist opiate.

Maybe try taking more to see if it helps you feel better...most time its just something you have to ride out. i know how much it sucks. try taking a hot shower or if you have access to some benzos a little valium would take the edge off. best of luck man, just remember, few more hours and you will feel way better than you do now.

 

[kanyeknievel]

so i wont have precipitated withdrawal? is it like if u did heroin then half hou later did suboxone u go into withdrawl?

 

['medicine cabinet']

^no you wouldnt unless you were given a full antagonist, but even then im not exactly sure what you would use to reverse bupe,

yea its like that only if you are dependent on heroin, or any other full agonist for that matter. like if you are maintained on bupe and did a full agonist then took more bupe it wouldnt make you sick since you are maintained on the bupe.

 

[ro0ga]

It's really hard to reverse buperenorphine. Since its binding affinity is so high, even full antagonists like naloxone or naltrexone won't fully reverse buperenoprhine for 2 reasons: 1) bupe's high binding affinity out-competes the antagonist at the opioid receptors (as stated) and 2) bupe's long duration of action. A lot of times people who are admitted to the hospital for buperenorphine overdoses are given an antagonist, which helps in the short term, but they need to be re-dosed because the naloxone/naltrexone will wear off before the bupe does, causing the patient to fall back into OD territory. Even then, it's difficult to fully reverse buprenorphine with antagonists because of its high binding affinity.

I know this doesn't help your situation much, as I don't think you're going to go and administer full antagonists at the moment. The only thing you can do at this point is ride it out...I wouldn't take more bupe until your WD symptoms diminish.

 

[darkvein]

so im feeling better, not great of course and I did take some more bupe but maybe Im not taking enough only like 6mg at a time and the wds still havent gone away.... i thought if your shooting opiates it takes less time to get it out of your system? I havent done any opiates since midnight friday night and have since taken sub 3 times 4mg then 6mg then 6mg now i wonder if ishould take 8mg tomorrow morning. Last time i took subs i got precip wd that lasted 40 hours and the 3rd day it was a bit better then 4th day i was ok but still not great

i dont get it.... say i take sub for a week and a half then shoot some roxys... i can take more bupe without getting more precip wd? this shit is so fuckin scary to me cause i have a lot of responsibilities and cant afford my opiate habit anymore and just happen to have like 53 8 mg subs at my disposal from last time but my experience with them so far has been hell

 

[ech0s85]

theres no need to wait 2 or 3 days to dose unless youre taking methadone. most people i know are fine at about 15 hours, but if youre that sick already you should be fine.

If youre scared just start with like 1mg and wait an hour, then if you dont get PWs take another mg and so on.

 

[darkvein]

i dont get it.... say i take sub for a week and a half then shoot some roxys... i can take more bupe without getting more precip wd? this shit is so fuckin scary to me cause i have a lot of responsibilities and cant afford my opiate habit anymore and just happen to have like 53 8 mg subs at my disposal from last time but my experience with them so far has been hell

 

[cyrax99]

i dont get it.... say i take sub for a week and a half then shoot some roxys... i can take more bupe without getting more precip wd? this shit is so fuckin scary to me cause i have a lot of responsibilities and cant afford my opiate habit anymore and just happen to have like 53 8 mg subs at my disposal from last time but my experience with them so far has been hell

You're making a simple answer complex here .

Someone who is NOT physically addicted to opiates can take buprenorphine anytime they want to. Now this would be a stupid idea if you wanted to use, as it would ruin the high, but they will NOT go into precipitated withdrawal. I use Heroin every other weekend, and will start on sub 8 hours after my last dose, as the high has worn off by then. Without physical addiction, you can take buprenorphine whenever you want.

Someone who IS physically addicted WILL go into precipitated withdrawal if they take suboxone too early after taking a full agonist. This is from the bupe pushing out and blocking the other opiates in your brain, causing a precipitated withdrawal. It is absolutely horrible, but easily avoided. You should always wait 24-36 hours after your last dose to be safe. Saying "if you're sick, it's safe" is totally false, and has been disproven many times over. You're supposed to ride out the sickness, and wait for 24-36 hours, and then dose the buprenorphine.

Moral of the story: No physical addiction, you can take sub any time. Physical addiction, wait 24-36 hours to avoid precipitated withdrawal.

Take it easy.

 

[darkvein]

ok... im not dumb... but why can you take sub and not get pw if your not dependant on opiates? what if your dependant on sub then take opiate then more sub will you get pw then?

thoeretically could i take sub to get over my wd from opiates for like a week and then stop taking sub without wd from the bupe because technically speaking i didnt have enough time to get dependant on bupe? i want to get over my physical dependancy on opiates and would rather just deal with the mental aftermath of it all... I just have to get that far, the two times ive tried subs i got pw and went back to opes cause cant handle wd

 

[cyrax99]

ok... im not dumb... but why can you take sub and not get pw if your not dependant on opiates?

Because when you're physically addicted to opiates, your body expects opiates to always be in your receptors. When it doesn't have them, it screams for more, which is what withdrawal is. If you're not dependent on having opiates in your receptors, you can take bupe at any time.

what if your dependant on sub then take opiate then more sub will you get pw then?

So if you already have bupe in your system, it has a higher binding affinity, and would block the full agonist opiate from binding to your receptors. Taking sub again would cause no problem. That's one of the cornerstones of why suboxone works so well, people know they can't really get high when they are on it. It is a big reason it is gaining favor over methadone maintenance, a full agonist

thoeretically could i take sub to get over my wd from opiates for like a week and then stop taking sub without wd from the bupe because technically speaking i didnt have enough time to get dependant on bupe?

It's different for everyone, but a week is not generally long enough to become physically dependent on suboxone. Physical addiction to bupe would be highly unlikely after one week.

i want to get over my physical dependancy on opiates and would rather just deal with the mental aftermath of it all... I just have to get that far, the two times ive tried subs i got pw and went back to opes cause cant handle wd

So here is what you need to do. Wait 36 hours to be absolutely positive that you will have no precipitated withdrawal. I guarantee you that you have no risk of precipitated W/D with 36 hours. Take a ton of immodium in those 36 hours to help relieve your symptoms. It is not a miracle cure, but it sure as hell makes your situation alot more bearable, and it is totally worth it. Use the subs to get rid of your physical addiction to opiates, it will probably take more than a week to avoid relapse. Is this trading one addiction for another? In a way yes. However, a partial agonist like bupenorphine is much easier to come off than a full agonist, with much milder withdrawals. It is much easier to taper off bupe too due to its lack of recreational benefits to addicts, so that is the route you'll most likely want to take. Taper off of it when you feel comfortable, there is no rush.