pre workout booster non AAS?

The guy above named Ritch, takes Adrafinil, I think it's a close cousin of amphetamine, he uses it pre workout I'd assume which is a no no for me.

Adrafinil is not really like an amphetamine at all, it's the prodrug of modafinil. If you took it at the same time as your amphetamine, it would to some extent block the dopamine effect of the amphetamine, and may make you feel a little more anxious/jittery.
 
I used to love ephedrine used 3 times day for 3 years. I thought I better stop it ive never felt tiredness likeit
 
half a jacket potato and I use to use yohimbine hcl this was great for energy
 
Adrafinil is not really like an amphetamine at all, it's the prodrug of modafinil. If you took it at the same time as your amphetamine, it would to some extent block the dopamine effect of the amphetamine, and may make you feel a little more anxious/jittery.

So adrafinil is more norepinephrine than dopamine whereas amphetamine is both?

By the way, back to original topic; how is sodium bicarbonate toxic? Is it in the dose? I'm a believer of it now because as I stated above, I experimented with it (as well as potassium citrate). So I did some pushups without baking soda and felt the soreness on my chest and tricep area but within about 5 minutes of drinking a glass of water with just a dab of sodium bicarbonate, the soreness was almost non existent. No soreness means I was able to push more pumps. Not even a quarter of a teaspoon, just a tiny dab actually. I tried potassium citrate before pre workout and it's just not the same "alkalizing" agent as sodium bicarbonate. From what I understand baking soda is used in various drugs as precursor, etc. so it has plenty of uses as well. Legit. Try it guys and let me know what you think. It would be nice to compare experiences. Just try a dab, nothing crazy like a teaspoon.
 
I was told by a long time AAS user he uses around 2 tablespoons of glucose pre workout. I tried a tablespoon and it works for me pre and post workout. Feels as if I haven't even lifted. Not sure what glucose's role is when it comes to "repair" as heavy lifting is not only physical but mental as well. Maybe glucose works on the brain first then that helps the physical aspect?

Anyway, another person told me to use ketones instead of glucose. I'm not really sure what is meant by that. Ketones is supposed to be fuel for the brain and body. I read coconut oil is one of them. What are the others? I only use glucose for now since I have a 5 pound bag of it. I hope to find whatever this ketone suggestion is in bulk.

I was always under the impression ketones were like, the pieces left over from burning fat. Typically that happens when your body is in ketosis, and that can be achieved indefinitely from eating under 50g carbs/day for a few days while eating high fats and medium/high proteins. So what he likely meant was stay away from sugars as an energy source, and adapt your body to burning fat for fuel instead. Simple carbs will cause insulin spikes so make sure to eat complex carbs when you do. I'll warn you, eating low carbs will make you very tired and even flu like symptoms for days to weeks. It is a boring meal plan and it is not an efficient state to be in for building muscle. Very good with dropping fat (and muscle as a side effect). Some people will do low carbs while on AAS to maintain muscle but drop fat.

Perhaps I'm way off and by glucose you mean glutamine?

Also, I'd recommend pre workout (fasted) yohimbine hcl, and/or albuterol if you are looking to cut some fat.

So adrafinil is more norepinephrine than dopamine whereas amphetamine is both?

By the way, back to original topic; how is sodium bicarbonate toxic? Is it in the dose? I'm a believer of it now because as I stated above, I experimented with it (as well as potassium citrate). So I did some pushups without baking soda and felt the soreness on my chest and tricep area but within about 5 minutes of drinking a glass of water with just a dab of sodium bicarbonate, the soreness was almost non existent. No soreness means I was able to push more pumps. Not even a quarter of a teaspoon, just a tiny dab actually. I tried potassium citrate before pre workout and it's just not the same "alkalizing" agent as sodium bicarbonate. From what I understand baking soda is used in various drugs as precursor, etc. so it has plenty of uses as well. Legit. Try it guys and let me know what you think. It would be nice to compare experiences. Just try a dab, nothing crazy like a teaspoon.

I have a friend who swears by Modafinal. He does a lot of kettle bell workouts and says it really helps him focus and more energy without nasty side effects. Never heard of the sodium bicarbonate trick but if it works that's pretty sweet. I believe its biggest application is in freebasing salts. Not much of a chemist though.

Also, for any AAS users, stuff like tren but not limited to. GW-501516 will help maintain less cardiac stress, lower bp, and help partition cholesterol levels properly. It is not a miracle drug for shedding fat but it has some incredible qualities that should not be ignored!
 
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anyone here ever used benfotiamine as a pre workout supplement? I know it is used for sciatica, something to do with the lower spine issue. I tried it and I think made my deadlift a bit better consider it is a "spine" workout. Could be placebo?

Sciatica:

"Pain radiating along the sciatic nerve, which runs down one or both legs from the lower back."

My real reason for using benfotiamine was only because it is the active form of thiamine, not really for sciatica but I guess it has helped with back workouts like deadlifts.

Lifting the weight up while deadlifting felt smoother, so was dropping the weight. There was no discomfort, then again could be placebo as well. Just checking here if there was science involved here when I used benfotiamine.
 
anyone here ever used benfotiamine as a pre workout supplement? I know it is used for sciatica, something to do with the lower spine issue. I tried it and I think made my deadlift a bit better consider it is a "spine" workout. Could be placebo?

Sciatica:

"Pain radiating along the sciatic nerve, which runs down one or both legs from the lower back."

My real reason for using benfotiamine was only because it is the active form of thiamine, not really for sciatica but I guess it has helped with back workouts like deadlifts.

Lifting the weight up while deadlifting felt smoother, so was dropping the weight. There was no discomfort, then again could be placebo as well. Just checking here if there was science involved here when I used benfotiamine.

If im reading right this is something to deal with pain from your sciatic nerve?
I would never use anything that dulled the pain of your body....pain is your bodys way of telling you theres something wrong, thats something key to keep in tact when doing any type of training
 
I'm pretty sure it's just a B1 derivative/antioxidant (ie thiamine) and not a typical painkiller. Grymreefer might know something about it as a pre-workout as he's our resident vitamin B expert ;)
 
Vitamin B1 is referred to as thiamine as CFC mentioned above. Its apart of the B complex and is a major factor in metabolic efficiency. I think the RDA was like 1mg or something extremely miniscule. Basically if you somehow manage to achieve thiamine deficiency without having compounding medical issues exacerbating the possibility of malnutrition or missing specific intrinsic factors that are associated with successful absorption then you need to learn how to eat again or you really need to lay off the shellfish.

Now to confuse myself. There is quite a few thiamine derivatives, thiamine vitamers and even thiaminase (an ezyme that breaks down the thiamine molecule) Some types of thiamine derivatives have no physiological significance to preventing deficiency, but are catalysts in other metabolic equations. Its honestly pretty confusing to me and I've never taken the effort to make sure I get adequate intake of thiamine or to try to understand the complex system that its involved in. Some forms of thiamine such as AThDP (Adenosine thiamine diphosphate) are not even fully understood and have no perceived significance at this moment. They just know it exists.

Just to add to another layer of confusion. Thiamine as itself is actually a vessel for other naturally occurring thiamine derivatives.

Every cell in our body responds to thiamine and with that being said thiamine deficiency is felt at all physiological levels. It tends to be more pronounced at the neurological level because its a major factor in oxidative metabolism. You can fall into a coma if the deficiency was allowed to fester for long enough and subsequently lead to death. Now I don't know about you, but I'm not too fond of dying anytime soon.

Had to look up what Benfotiamine was. Here is the fancy name...S-benzoylthiamine O-monophosphate which is a synthetic S-acyl derivative of your good friend, thiamine. Just for some background information, S-acylation is the chemical process of linking two molecules together with a thioester bond. A thioester is the result of esterification of carboxylic acid and thiol. What does this mean? I really don't know, but if you are willing to dive further than me than here is a great link. https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/pentose.htm

The alleviation of the sciatica is achieved by utilizing the Pentose Phosphate pathway.

Being utilized as a pre-workout supplement. I'm not 100% following. Are you trying to prevent any aggravation to the nerve? A preventative measure to help alleviate oxidative stress? I don't know of any vitamin belonging to the B complex being an absolute make or break in reference to pre-workout supplementation. I guess if you were really interested in experimenting you could megadose pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5) it helps promote the breakdown of lipids which could give you an incredibly unrecognizable net increase in lipolysis.

Cobalamin with its respective molecules (cyno,methyl,adenosyl) could cause a temporarily spike in body temperature if administered via I.M within 30 minutes before exercising. It produces very mild thermogenic activities, but B12 aids in metabolic regulation. I guess if you wanted to be very technical I could see B6 being an ingredient in pre-workout supplements. This is because its actually pretty difficult to identify any process in the body that doesn't utilize B6. B6 also plays a major role in how effective your body utilizes carbohydrates for energy.

I mean the whole vitamin B Complex has been associated as the energy vitamins and that statement does have some truth to it. Would missing out on B Complex supplementation be overwhelmingly detrimental to a successful workout? Nope.
 
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Re-read my post. I do not have sciatica. I only use this active form of B1 was because for the sake of using the active form of it. Benfotiamine is used for sciatica, which is why I brought up my use of it pre workout (deadlift) that involves the spine. Deadlift is a back/spine workout. My assumption here is it has helped me with the deadlift, could be placebo as well, which is why I need to ask here to see if anyone here have tried it. I have plenty of extra pills of it just sitting around that I haven't finished so I though I'd experiment. I wasn't wasting money here. Just experimenting. This has nothing to do with dulling body pain. Who even does that?

If im reading right this is something to deal with pain from your sciatic nerve?
I would never use anything that dulled the pain of your body....pain is your bodys way of telling you theres something wrong, thats something key to keep in tact when doing any type of training
 
I think certain B vitamins has its place as a pre workout supplement. I have always had great stamina using 500mg of pantothenic acid as a pre workout supplement along with vitamin B12 (methyl cobalamin, not cyanocobalamin). B12 is said to utilize glucose, so taking a tablespoon of glucose pre workout seem to get utilized by the brain better with b12 use. Just my experience. Other B vitamins said to be good for stamina are niacin and or niacinamide, which I haven't used as a pre workout considering niacin causes a flush, I wouldn't want to have the flushing while doing an intense workout. Niacinamide is said to be calming and have been used in place of tranquilizers, so I'm not sure why it was said to increase stamina.

Vitamin B1 is referred to as thiamine as CFC mentioned above. Its apart of the B complex and is a major factor in metabolic efficiency. I think the RDA was like 1mg or something extremely miniscule. Basically if you somehow manage to achieve thiamine deficiency without having compounding medical issues exacerbating the possibility of malnutrition or missing specific intrinsic factors that are associated with successful absorption then you need to learn how to eat again or you really need to lay off the shellfish.

Now to confuse myself. There is quite a few thiamine derivatives, thiamine vitamers and even thiaminase (an ezyme that breaks down the thiamine molecule) Some types of thiamine derivatives have no physiological significance to preventing deficiency, but are catalysts in other metabolic equations. Its honestly pretty confusing to me and I've never taken the effort to make sure I get adequate intake of thiamine or to try to understand the complex system that its involved in. Some forms of thiamine such as AThDP (Adenosine thiamine diphosphate) are not even fully understood and have no perceived significance at this moment. They just know it exists.

Just to add to another layer of confusion. Thiamine as itself is actually a vessel for other naturally occurring thiamine derivatives.

Every cell in our body responds to thiamine and with that being said thiamine deficiency is felt at all physiological levels. It tends to be more pronounced at the neurological level because its a major factor in oxidative metabolism. You can fall into a coma if the deficiency was allowed to fester for long enough and subsequently lead to death. Now I don't know about you, but I'm not too fond of dying anytime soon.

Had to look up what Benfotiamine was. Here is the fancy name...S-benzoylthiamine O-monophosphate which is a synthetic S-acyl derivative of your good friend, thiamine. Just for some background information, S-acylation is the chemical process of linking two molecules together with a thioester bond. A thioester is the result of esterification of carboxylic acid and thiol. What does this mean? I really don't know, but if you are willing to dive further than me than here is a great link. https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/pentose.htm

The alleviation of the sciatica is achieved by utilizing the Pentose Phosphate pathway.

Being utilized as a pre-workout supplement. I'm not 100% following. Are you trying to prevent any aggravation to the nerve? A preventative measure to help alleviate oxidative stress? I don't know of any vitamin belonging to the B complex being an absolute make or break in reference to pre-workout supplementation. I guess if you were really interested in experimenting you could megadose pantothenic acid (Vitamin B5) it helps promote the breakdown of lipids which could give you an incredibly unrecognizable net increase in lipolysis.

Cobalamin with its respective molecules (cyno,methyl,adenosyl) could cause a temporarily spike in body temperature if administered via I.M within 30 minutes before exercising. It produces very mild thermogenic activities, but B12 aids in metabolic regulation. I guess if you wanted to be very technical I could see B6 being an ingredient in pre-workout supplements. This is because its actually pretty difficult to identify any process in the body that doesn't utilize B6. B6 also plays a major role in how effective your body utilizes carbohydrates for energy.

I mean the whole vitamin B Complex has been associated as the energy vitamins and that statement does have some truth to it. Would missing out on B Complex supplementation be overwhelmingly detrimental to a successful workout? Nope.
 
Feel free to add something to my other thread about gaining weight without storing fat (regarding iodine use):

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/766604-upping-weight-without-storing-fat-how

I wonder why some people mentioned using selenium while using iodine. Also, there is said to be a good combo when using tyrosine while on iodine, see below:

"The thyroid gland controls how quickly the body uses energy, makes proteins, and controls the body's sensitivity to other hormones. It participates in these processes by producing thyroid hormones, the principal ones being triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (sometimes referred to as tetraiodothyronine (T4)). These hormones regulate the growth and rate of function of many other systems in the body. T3 and T4 are synthesized from iodine and tyrosine. The thyroid also produces calcitonin, which plays a role in calcium homeostasis."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thyroid

my specialty here!
what do you know about nootropics?
3 grams of l-tyrosine taken 1 hour after your meal and 45 min before the gym will put your focus and mood in a very productive range.
Add your given dose of caffeine
some ephedrine

just start with that, I got much more!....
 
I wonder why some people mentioned using selenium while using iodine.

Selenium is essential for the biosynthesis and function of the iodothyronine deiodinases that control the conversion of T4 to T3. In addition, selenium-dependent glutathione peroxidases (GPxs) are implicated in the protection against oxidative damage to the thyroid gland...
 
Selenium is essential for the biosynthesis and function of the iodothyronine deiodinases that control the conversion of T4 to T3. In addition, selenium-dependent glutathione peroxidases (GPxs) are implicated in the protection against oxidative damage to the thyroid gland...

Any suggested dose of selenium? I've read of 1 mg (1000 mcg). I've read of people taking four 200 mcg selenium pills. Any info. as to why there's info. that combining iodine with tyrosine is suggested as well? I know someone here mentioned tyrosine as a workout booster. I get energized with lugol's iodine alone, I wonder what the combo of tyrosine would be like. Not to mention with selenium (which I take). There are different types of selenium so I'm curious what anyone's suggestion is? There is selenomethionine, selenocysteine, selenium yeast, etc.
 
Doesn't L-Tyrosine raise blood pressure? But the active/bio available form of L-Tyrosine (N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine or NALT) seem to lower blood pressure:

N-Acetyl Tyrosine Uses:

Mood enhancement

Counteracting negative side effects of stimulants by lowering anxiety

Promoting healthy blood pressure during times of stress

http://www.powdercity.com/products/n-acetyl-l-tyrosine-benefits

my specialty here!
what do you know about nootropics?
3 grams of l-tyrosine taken 1 hour after your meal and 45 min before the gym will put your focus and mood in a very productive range.
Add your given dose of caffeine
some ephedrine

just start with that, I got much more!....
 
Doesn't L-Tyrosine raise blood pressure? But the active/bio available form of L-Tyrosine (N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine or NALT) seem to lower blood pressure:

N-Acetyl Tyrosine Uses:

Mood enhancement

Counteracting negative side effects of stimulants by lowering anxiety

Promoting healthy blood pressure during times of stress

http://www.powdercity.com/products/n-acetyl-l-tyrosine-benefits

I can't find any information regarding an association with elevated blood pressure. I would assume the mood enhancement properties is trivial unless you are an individual who is under constant pressure in extremely high tension environments. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I'll reiterate... it is a recognized precursor for some neurotransmitters, but that doesn't necessarily dictate that this will have a significant impact. The chemical harmony of the brain is much more complex and there is usually something limiting the kinetics of these reactions.
 
Doesn't L-Tyrosine raise blood pressure? But the active/bio available form of L-Tyrosine (N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine or NALT) seem to lower blood pressure:

N-Acetyl Tyrosine Uses:

Mood enhancement

Counteracting negative side effects of stimulants by lowering anxiety

Promoting healthy blood pressure during times of stress

http://www.powdercity.com/products/n-acetyl-l-tyrosine-benefits

I can find little evidence to support L-tyrosine elevating BP, there is however some research to suggest it lowers diastolic...

Beware of advice given on websites with products for sale....
 
the advice you see is usually backed up with scientific sources at the bottom of the site for reference.

I can find little evidence to support L-tyrosine elevating BP, there is however some research to suggest it lowers diastolic...

Beware of advice given on websites with products for sale....
 
I'm probably mistaking something that raises BP that may have sounded something similar to tyrosine. I'll look it up.

I can't find any information regarding an association with elevated blood pressure. I would assume the mood enhancement properties is trivial unless you are an individual who is under constant pressure in extremely high tension environments. I think someone mentioned it earlier, but I'll reiterate... it is a recognized precursor for some neurotransmitters, but that doesn't necessarily dictate that this will have a significant impact. The chemical harmony of the brain is much more complex and there is usually something limiting the kinetics of these reactions.
 
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