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Postulations on defeat of new XR mechanism (alprazolam)

E

EllisD.yeahit'sme.

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Joined
May 28, 2004
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Yes yes, one can simply get a bar and be done with it, rather than try and find a readily available method to defeating the new time release mechanism of xanax.

As I understand it, the new mechanism works through two competing acids (one being in your tummy and one being in the pill) "duking it out" to metabolize the drug, thus producing a time released effect.

this has led me down the path of trying various homemade tinctures to try and free the alprazolam from this ion-binding (?). My theory is thatif one were to submerse a crushed xanax tablet in a highly acidic environ, similar to the one in your tummy, one might override the ion-stuff-i'm-not-too-sure-about......albeit this might take up to twelve hours, but the net satisfaction i would feel about defeating this new "wonder-pill" would be prime.

I've experimented (using the term loosely) using the theory described above, with fairly limited success. The materials used are nothing more than cups of fruit juice and a pill crusher. Dissolved pills were soaked in various acidic juices anywhere from one to six hours.

Lemon Juice was a dissapointment. I don't know that the juice itself failed to do what i theorized it to do, or i simply got impatient and drank it before it had time to fully liberate from that pesky ion-chain(?).

Although grapefruit juice did indeed yeild a more potent tincture, i'm not so certain that it wasn't from potentiation (which I've heard it to do) and not liberation from the chain.

This is more out of boredom and fun than anything else, as none of my experiments yeiled anything near the crack-cocaine onset of a sublingually dissolved bar. If you have any corrections, thoughts, suggestions, or comments, i would love to hear them. i just want to make this prescription worthwhile.

thanks guys.
 
http://realscience.breckschool.org/upper/johnson/Chem/ChemProj/juice7/default.html

That website lists the pH of various types (and brands) of fruit juices. VeryFine brand cranberry juice had the lowest pH (about 2.4). The same site listed the pH of VeryFine brand grapefruit juice as between 3.2 and 3.3.

After searching several websites, the values for lemon juice ranges from 2.3 to about 4. The value 2.3 came from what I believe to be a more "reputable" site:
http://encarta.msn.com/media_461534810/pH_Scale_Some_Common_Solutions.html
A baking website listed lemon juice pH as 2.4...so I'd assume lemon juice pH is between 2.0 and 2.5 (possibly differing by brand).

So, I believe lemon juice definitely has a lower pH than grapefruit juice...so if you felt more of an effect from the grapefruit juice, it probably was due to grapefruit juice's potentiation of the alprazolam rather than due to any difference in pH.

As for the pH of the stomach, one sites lists it as about 4 while empty, but lowering to around 2 when food is eaten (due to an increase in the production of hydrochloric acid to digest the food). URL: http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen01/gen01540.htm
But another site (http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio115/pepsin.htm) says pH INCREASES after food is consumed. So you'd need someone smarter than myself to know the true pH value of the stomach (while empty and full),

While my quick search indicates that VeryFine cranberry juice and lemon juice have roughly the same pH, I can't help but think the pH of lemon juice is lower (if we're talking about lemon juice concentrate). It just tastes much more acidic than cranberry juice. Also, both seem to have roughly the same pH of the stomach.

So if you're correct that the "XR mechanism" is due to "two competing acids," dissolving crushed Xanax XR in either VeryFine cranberry juice of lemon juice concertate should be capable of defeating the time release.

But as you said, Xanax XR is supposedly a 12 hour time release. I would suggest trying to completely dissolve finely crushed (as fine as you can get it) Xanax XR in lemon juice concentrate (as much as it takes to fully dissolve the Xanax, then maybe a little more just to make sure). Since it's a 12 hour time release, I'd suggest leaving this solution for at least 12 hours...I'd try 24 hours if you really want to see if this method will work. I have a gut instinct that the pH of the stomach is lower than that of lemon juice concentrate despite my findings.

So try it out...if it doesn't work with finely crush Xanax XR dissolved in a little more lemon juice than necessary to completely dissolve the Xanax for 24 hours, then I'd bet this is NOT the way the time release mechanism works. Good luck with your experiment and let us know how it works out (especially if you decide to try my method).
 
Damn, they're doing this in the US now? I had it with these dihydrocodeine pills. Someone said to use washing soda, let it sit, and then neutralize with lemon juice so as to be safe, but I didn't want to risk damaging myself. I tried baking soda, but I don't know if it did much good. Others say to just microwave them a bit...
 
continued experimentation has indeed yeilded positive results, in both myself and "test subjects"

My theory on GFJ was both wrong and correct......a solid tablet taken 30 minutes after a glass of GFJ was noticably potentiated by those lacking tolerance issues with benzos, but a simple "quick wash" of the powdered pill will not extract the alprazolam form its binder.

however.

a 12-24 hour (i usually just leave it an entire day) soak of powdered xanax xr in GFJ yeilds an instant-release alrazolam solution, with one making sure to agitate before ingestion so as to get the non-water soluble alrazolam particles from the bottom of the soaking chamber.

a soak in the gfj also produces the added bonus of it's potentiation effects.....with lemon juice working a bit less effeciously imo, perhaps due to a lack of said potentiation.
 
Hi. You are talking about the ion-bond time release mechanism right? at least that's what I assume because of the pH levels. (rant) Damn communists, if I remember correctly this method was developed about 10 years ago in Cuba, so I don't know why it's becoming more popular worldwide nowadays. Back on topic, I can get ahold of ion-bond-exchange time release capsules of 5mg hydrocodone with 2mg clorpheniramine per capsule, the good thing is that when you open the caps they are already extremely finely crushed, I know the clorpheniramine is dangerous, but I've taken up to 30mgs in the past, though I'm unsure my method of breaking the time release worked (soaked in freshly squeezed lemon juice with water), then took baking soda to lower the pH of my stomach and drank.
What do you think would be the best method of carrying out the extraction for this hydrocodone caps, btw in my country I only can get Ocean Spray brand of grapefruit/cranberry juices, anyone knows their pH value? or would it be a better idea to squeeze the juice myself and dissolve in water? then throw the contents of around 12 caps (I need at least 50mgs of oxy to get off, but been withdrawing and since monday I'm holding myself with methylmorphine and ethylmorphine, just to be able to sleep more than 3 hours per night and be able to perform at work).
Anyway I can get ahold of this pills (Aseptobron Unicap, made in Argentina) very easily, should I attempt something like EllisD. (yahooka?) did? should I use freshly squeezed juice, if so, which fruit do you reccomend? also should I mix it with water or some ocean spray cranberry juice afterwards and let it rest for around 24 hours stirring occaisonly at room temp (it's summer down here, so room temp with AC is about 25 deegres celcius). And finally due to clorpheniramine content of this caps, is it worth to go thru all the hassle?.
I could go and get some oxys, but I owe money to my man and my paycheck is just not coming in grrrr, so I'd like to try cheapest, easy to get alternatives.
Thanks a lot.
 
To the Original poster

when soaking the crushed XR in the GFJ, how much juice do you use? Like 4 ounces or so? or a whole bottle of like 10 ounces. Also while letting the powder soak in the gfj for 12-24 hours, do you keep it refigerated or do you keep it at room temperature. One more question, this is definitely working? Its yielding instant release?!? I've tried so much things trying to get these XR's to be instant release. Please inform me a little more and answer my questions please ellis. :o
 
cause I still prefer and hydro/oxy high than a codeine or ethylmorphine high, I like to be able to redose every hour or so, so ethylmorphine ain't that great. It's only a little bit more potent than codeine (methylimorphine), I take them for withdrawals cause in my country they are very easy to obtain and I guess I'm too much of a pussy to go thru all the oxy wd's hassle when I can hold myself with those substances.
Now any idea about defeating the mechanism?
 
Re: To the Original poster

Dependence03 said:
when soaking the crushed XR in the GFJ, how much juice do you use? Like 4 ounces or so? or a whole bottle of like 10 ounces. Also while letting the powder soak in the gfj for 12-24 hours, do you keep it refigerated or do you keep it at room temperature. One more question, this is definitely working? Its yielding instant release?!? I've tried so much things trying to get these XR's to be instant release. Please inform me a little more and answer my questions please ellis. :o
Click to expand...

I'd like to know these answers, too...
 
OK. I have posted about 50 times regarding the impossible XR pills, but no one on BL or in my group of chemical engineering friends has a solution. My doc led me to believe it was feasibly impossible to manipulate these time release pills (he knows I like to play chemist and am a xanax fiend).

The only suggestion (educated guess) a amped up chem eng. told me to do was soak a powdered pill in ethanol (or just 151 proof rum) and allow precipitation of the plastic bullshit that gels up and binds the pill. He believed that the precipitate could then be filtered and the raw alprazolam (or at least much rawer alprazolam than before) will be left in the relatively small amount of ethanol used. Since we're talking about trying for maybe a small scale 10mg or 20mg batch of raw xanax yield, filtering would have to be done very thoroughly to ensure no lost xanax in the filter. This would leave a fairly large amount of ethanol after washing the filter very well, so maybe allowing evaporation of the ethanol should be considered as to not get drunk and taint your empirical studies.

But when I think of allowing a few ounces of ethanol to evaporate to retrieve a tiny tiny tiny tiny 10mg bit of xanax, it seems hard to believe that the mg.'s wouldn't stick to the sides of the test tube or whatever is used. I think that an enourmous batch of about 250 2mg XR pills would have to be used to possibly retrieve an acceptable percent yield (close to half gram = 500mg) --- Or just do a small batch of like 3 2mg XR's in ethanol, filter and just take the little bit of ethanol with your dose of hopefully about 4mg raw xanax. Personally, I HATE mixing the least amount of alcohol with xanax...it changes the whole experience. Plus I don't really like drinking anyway, period.

So if anyone wants to ask around about using ethanol (grain alcohol) to work the magic, it might work. Please let me know...but try not to let the shot of everclear taint your scientific results and report. I'd do it right now, but the only alcohol I have is 80 proof scotch. I don't even want to smell that shttt. Luckily I have 3 bars in my pocket, so fuck the XR's tonight....I'm gonna feel good not just calm.

-----note: the ethanol trick could be complete BS, but a well educated chemical engineer that is always working with his variety of time release amps told me he belives this method would be worth investigating. It seems simple enough.


Also, I buy grapefruit juice by the gallon every two days because it most certainly potentiates xanax (especially regular IR xanax). Don'e let that taint your results either. I'm not trying to sound authoritative or that I know very much, but I really want to ingest my 75 2mg XR's every 30 days the way god intended for them to be ingested - raw!

Thanks for the help!! Everybody ask everybody you know. Someone has to have an answer to this. I think my doc knows that there is a reasonable method because he asks me how crushing and parachuting worked out. He wanted me to elaborate and possibly gloat, thereby revealing that I had smart friends that spend a lot of time in the lab. THERE MUST BE A WAY!!!! Thanks!
 
After using a friend who has plenty of experience with regular xanax (however not a habit to provide him with any tolerance in the past two years), he reported back to me that by ingesting an absolutely pulverized 2mg XR pill was nearly the same as the regular 2mg bars that he took a few days earlier. Previously I had not believed that crushing the pills defeated any of the XR, but I blame my disbelief on the fact that I have become "immune" to any dose of xanax less than 4mg.

I firmly believe that there is a decent (30% = guess) amount of undissolved alprazolam in one's stomach even after pulverizing the XR pill because I never feel the need for more xanax XR up to 8 hours after taking a crushed 2mg XR.

So, either "competing enzymes and chemicals" are responsible for not allowing total defeat of the XR or just the pill re-gelling in ones mouth and stomach is enough to slow the release of a crushed pill. I'm thinking since alprazolam is soluble in ethanol, why not crush, dissolve, filter, wash, and try to find your 2 or 3 mg (or whatever yield) of raw alpraz.

Please let me know if any of this does or does not make sense, and please provide ANYTHING you have to contribute. Thanks.
 
^ When ever I have powderized my Xanax XR's it seemed like regular good ol' xanax to me. It hit me quick 10-15 minutes and lasted a bit longer than a normal 2mg of xanax would.

I think a blind test is in order, powderize a pill of XR, a regular bar or possible a few 1mg'ers (so the amount of powder is approximate) and have a friend try them out to see if he notices a difference.

don't let him know which is which...

I stand by my original post probably close to a year ago when I said powderizing the XR's to semi defeat the time release works, its probably just a quicker absorbsion rate once powdered instead of letting that HARD motherfucking pill slowly disolve in your stomach.

It is xanax though so no matter what it will hit fast except the XR's last a bit longer
 
I just got my refill of 75 2mg XR for the month (2-3 per day), but I wish they were regular bars. I am baffled that these pills keep me at ease and anxiety free but never actually kick in to make me feel good. I do believe that crushing does some good, but it still does not allow the pills to "kick in." The best proof that I can give is that my refill I got this afternoon is still completely full. I have yet to take (or had the urge to take) another one since the one I crushed early this morning. If I had regular xanax, that bottle would be quickly shrinking.

My psych. assured me that I could have no problem controlling my use of the XR pills. Every month for about two years after a xanax induced OD, I talked to my doc about how I can't function without taking enormous doses of raw xanax - and that I have a enormous pyschological addiction to xanax. After two years and non-narcotic meds of all sorts, my anxiety and temper were out of control. So as soon as I mentioned not wanting to get hooked on oxy's and the "new Xanax XR," I had a script in my hand for time release Xanax. NEVER would my pysch. give me any other benzo, but he was completely confident in the safety of the Xanax XR. I have not run short on any of my 7 refills! All I'm saying is that if a xanax fiend like me has an untouched bottle of XR's, they are lacking something. I just can't get a rush off these damn things...only a little slurred speech and tired when crushing 4 or 5. The slow absorption remains even after powdering. It's just slow enough to keep it from being fun for xanax fiends - meaning it does not give me that warm, cozy rush I expect precisely 15 minutes after taking a few bars. My doc confirms all of this and tells me to feel free to crush them up (and he kinda smirks like I'm wasting my time).

Maybe for people who don't take xanax often, a crushed pill absorbs quickly enough to provide a euphoria similar to their experiences with regular xanax. This was the case for a friend of mine last week. For me unfortunately, a powdered pill just will not absorb quickly enough to "warm me up." This would confirm my doc's belief that if Pfizer ever admits raw xanax can be extremely addictive to some people, the XR Xanax will be marketed as a "safe" benzo. For now, the XR pills are making there way into the hands of addicts of all sorts that have been cutoff from their meds and not been able to find a suitable non-narcotic anxiety med (but only by psychs that have conferred with other psychs that have had positive results prescribing addicts XR xanax). If my doc thought that I would not be a liability by having XR xanax, he must know that the pills are unable to provide the rush a xanax fiend wants. He honestly told me to crush them, snort them, inject them...whatever I want - jokingly, though.


My final ruling is crushed xanax XR pills are great for both euphoria and anxiety relief for the more casual benzo popper, but they still absorb too damn slow to do much more than provide steady anxiety relief for the everyday xanax fiend. So since crushing doesn't cut it for me, it's off to the lab to try and extract 2mg of raw alpraz (that shouldn't be too difficult to see).
 
Last edited:
9volt said:
...it's off to the lab to try and extract 2mg of raw alpraz (that shouldn't be too difficult to see)....
Click to expand...

Actually, 2 mg of alprazolam (or anything, for that matter) will be quite difficult to see (not impossible- but it'll be a tiny amount). Not to mention handle/work with...

Since it's barely soluble in water, but quite readily soluble in ethanol, it seems (to me, at least) that an extraction of the crushed Xanax XR tabs w/ alcohol would be one's best bet. One could always evap the alcohol off to a level that would not cause any interference in the efffects of alprazolam (i.e...poentiation/synergy due to the fact that alcohol is itself a CNS depressant).
Or, if you have the luxury, eat several (paying attention to your own particular tolerance) of the unaltered pills, and have a Xanax effect that lasts quite awhile...:\
 
Maybe for people who don't take xanax often, a crushed pill absorbs quickly enough to provide a euphoria similar to their experiences with regular xanax.
Click to expand...

I admit I am not a frequent user of the XR's I had one script and stayed off them since. I do take xanax and klonapin daily and in-frequent use of crushed xanax XR still give me that 'warm' feeling if I take enough. So I assume you get used to it like any other drug.
 
i can't really compete with phase dancer on his lil' essay there, just....just...damn dude. 8o

but uh.....i've been in my basement drinking and eating xanax (i told you guys i was dedicated to this project) and finally have come up with something that works....albeit not in the method i intended.

it seems that even after a 4-hour soak (i was too imaptient to wait any longer) in 80 proof ethanol, there are still waxy exudates in the mix. i didn't bother filtering them, as i assumed that the alprazolam would be soluble in the alcohol, whilst the binders MIGHT not, or it might render them inneffective\whateva...

but to the point....

a crushed 2 mg xanax xr soaked for four hours in 1 oZ of liqour, with agitation every half an hour or so seemed to almost completely eliminate the removal of "xanax-rush" that one gets with the non-xr's...

what i'm saying is they actually work!

i tried to use as little alcohol as possible so as not to interfere with the effects (as if i would mind) and am quite satisfied with the results.

the powder has a tendency to re-mass into small little balls of wax on the bottom of the container, hence the constant agitation. i don't know whether any alprazolam was left in these alcohol-saturated balls of wax or what, but it sure as hell seemed to work in my opinion.

and phase dancer: i wish to, aside from abuse, not have to take a whole day's worth of xanax when i'm feeling anxious. it's almost as if that i have to predict whether i'm going to have an anxiety-producing day in the morning when i take the pill, as i can't take one when the stressor is introduced. i wish to do this extraction to both keep my tolerance low ( so that i still CAN abuse when i wish) and to not take uneccesary medication that doesn't even get me high.

thanks for all the replies guys!
 
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