Population Control

[rickolasnice]

Not sure if this belongs here.. I may have even mentioned this before..

The planet is over populated.. Animal after animal after plant after plant are becoming extinct because of the human race. We are destroying the rainforests, destroying the oceans, destroying the rivers, destroying the soil and destroying the air (well.. we're polluting them)..

The planets resources are finite.. Soon enough whole regions will drown, eco systems will collapse.. Most of the worlds population will be starving..

Letts: Janus effects 90 to 95% of the population, leaving only one in twenty fertile. We predict population will plateau at 500 million in just under a hundred years. By then, normal breeding rates should resume, but on a planet that will feel empty.
Ian: You're fucking insane!
Letts: To do nothing is insane. You accuse us of being genocidal? Not acting is genocide. Where do you think your food comes from, Ian? A third of the world's farmland is now useless due to soil degradation. Yet we keep producing more mouths to feed. And what's your answer to that? Energy-saving light bulbs?
Ian: But we're doing things, we're changing things.
Letts: You know the person who had the greatest positive impact on the environment on this planet? Genghis Khan, because he massacred forty million people. There was no one to farm the land. Forests grew back. Carbon was dragged out of the atmosphere. And had this monster not existed, there'd be another billion of us today, jostling for space on this dying planet. Yet Janus massacres no one. It's without violence.
Wilson Wilson: This is why you did this to me, this is why you killed my father.
Letts: And there are a thousand other crimes on my conscience. But you know what I see, Wilson? A planet turned into a desert. A thousand million souls starving, dying. And we can stop this, with Janus.

Even if my worst case scenario doesn't happen.. there is no denying the human race is completely fucking up planet earth and everything on it..

If the government wanted to implement this plan, publicly or not, I'd welcome it.. I'd want it. The planet needs it.

Thoughts? Do you believe this planet can sustain us? For how long? Shall we leave things be and see what happens? Alternatives?

 

[Kittycat5]

What exactly is Janus? Or whatever their plan is?

 

[One Thousand Words]

Lower the retirement age to 50 and introduce an extermination age. If you haven't done anything with your life by the time you are 70 tough titties. Id throw one hell of a death party before being lowered into a carbonate pit the next morning.

A death/inheritance tax set at 90% would also reduce hoarding of resources so as to pass on to your children.

 

[rickolasnice]

Janus is the name of the fictional chemical that the government engineer which will turn 95% of people infertile..

They manufacture a world wide fear campaign of "Russian Flu".. so of course.. in comes the "vaccine"..

(And yeah sorry.. didn't realise the plan wasn't outlined in that speech)

A death/inheritance tax set at 90% would also reduce hoarding of resources so as to pass on to your children.

How will this help control population? :/

 

[What 23]

I guess Moses wasn't such a bad dude after all. Maybe we need another Moses to kill 60 cities, or a billion or two people.

 

[rickolasnice]

I'm not talking about genocide

 

[What 23]

I know but the alternatives aren't really much better. My dad is 70. I'm not going to permit anyone take his life because he is old. And imposing a chemical or otherwise agent on people to destroy their fertility, is bad as well. What gives them the right? It is not much different than my 'right' to commit certain 'genocide', IMO. Though one does seem less violent, and perhaps, sustainable of a more manageable population. I just can't see any great number of us going through with it voluntarily. Having children is a big part of life, as it is.

What about soon when we have the ability to live forever? Maybe there should be a law then that if you undergo treatment or choose that route of 'living forever' you won't be able to have children, as a trade off... At least until we can create resources out of clumps of other matters, and colonize space. If that will ever come. I don't see why really we need to find new worlds to colonize. Just create networks of self sustaining spheres/stations, once or if we get the technology.

I also believe the Earth has far more resources than we think. And there are resources to be tapped. But not infinite. At least not for an ever increasing population.

In the interem, I think 1-2 child policies and restrictions on immigrafion should be set in place. In countries that can, impose soft population caps (that are frequently evaluated, and changed when needed). When approaching this number of sustainability, do not permit immigration unless for extreme circumstances, or special circumstances such as a brilliant scientist wanting to live and work in the country. This will ensure at least some places, that can control and sustain themselves, might remain stable.

I don't know. Its a tough thing to think about for me.

 

[bit_pattern]

I also believe the Earth has far more resources than we think.

When you say 'we' think, who exactly are you referring to? And what kind of resources are you talking about? is there some giant reserve of phlogiston that if only we could figure out how to tap then all of our problems would be over?

this will ensure at least some places, that can control and sustain themselves, might remain stable.

Let me guess - these 'some places' will all be white, blue-eyed places, amirite?

 

[One Thousand Words]

How will this help control population? :/

It won't, it will simply allow a fairer distribution of the resources we have, which is the only reason to advocate population control.

I know but the alternatives aren't really much better. My dad is 70. I'm not going to permit anyone take his life because he is old. And imposing a chemical or otherwise agent on people to destroy their fertility, is bad as well. What gives them the right? It is not much different than my 'right' to commit certain 'genocide', IMO. Though one does seem less violent, and perhaps, sustainable of a more manageable population. I just can't see any great number of us going through with it voluntarily. Having children is a big part of life, as it is.

What about soon when we have the ability to live forever? Maybe there should be a law then that if you undergo treatment or choose that route of 'living forever' you won't be able to have children, as a trade off... At least until we can create resources out of clumps of other matters, and colonize space. If that will ever come. I don't see why really we need to find new worlds to colonize. Just create networks of self sustaining spheres/stations, once or if we get the technology.

I also believe the Earth has far more resources than we think. And there are resources to be tapped. But not infinite. At least not for an ever increasing population.

In the interem, I think 1-2 child policies and restrictions on immigrafion should be set in place. In countries that can, impose soft population caps (that are frequently evaluated, and changed when needed). When approaching this number of sustainability, do not permit immigration unless for extreme circumstances, or special circumstances such as a brilliant scientist wanting to live and work in the country. This will ensure at least some places, that can control and sustain themselves, might remain stable.

I don't know. Its a tough thing to think about for me.

There are not too many children though, there are only too many adults. If you knew you had a finite time on this planet do you think you would waste it? Every newborn child is a fresh slate to mould and teach while at the same time diluting the fail that has gone before. I'd rather have a new mind to shape than try and panel beat a stale one with self interests.

 

[socko]

Has anyone seenthe first five minutes of Idiocracy? Or heard the song with the line "everywhere i go all the stupid people are breeding?" In popular culture we see references to the appearance that stupid people are outbreeding smart people.
Where I live it is reality.

Its not unusual for a 40 year old to be a grandparent with several spawn named "Bubba." From observation these people are as dumb as they sound - semi literate, no college, religious fundamentalist beliefs. In contrst people I know who have PhDs often have no plans of ever having children.

To help keep stupid people from outbreedingsmart people, to protect children from unfit parents, and to control population growth, prospective parents should be licensed. The requirement for the license would be parenting classes. Violators would be given free vascectomies or have tubes tied.

 

[One Thousand Words]

You need stupid people to balance out the bell curve though

 

[What 23]

When you say 'we' think, who exactly are you referring to? And what kind of resources are you talking about? is there some giant reserve of phlogiston that if only we could figure out how to tap then all of our problems would be over?



Let me guess - these 'some places' will all be white, blue-eyed places, amirite?

What is phlogiston?

No, I imagine Japan might be there. For one.
My eyes are amber/brown/orange/green (depends on the light) and my hair is brown, but it red for the first two years or so of my life and red and blond come through in my beard. I've never had and nobody in my immediate family has blue eyes, though two nieces do and so did my grandma, and uncle and various ancestors on my dads side that I know of. Yepper. But I imagine places with successful economies and governments, infrastructure, and those places where people flock to, might be more likely to be "some places" that might actually need something like this.

Why, is that unfair?

Is Japan being unfair for limiting its immigration? And for the matter but off topic let's not get into it, wanting to keep Japan... Japanese? I might have an unclear image, though.

There are not too many children though, there are only too many adults. If you knew you had a finite time on this planet do you think you would waste it? Every newborn child is a fresh slate to mold and teach while at the same time diluting the fail that has gone before. I'd rather have a new mind to shape than try and panel beat a stale one with self interests.

True. We need children to keep things fresh, and I imagine the whole living forever thing might stale things up, but I definitely don't agree with having a set time limit on life. Then again, I can see some benefit to knowing when I'll die.

 

[One Thousand Words]

The planet will breath again once the baby boomers die out

 

[bit_pattern]

What is phlogiston?

Look it up, genius.

Now, back to the question: who is the "we" you refer to and what resources do you "believe" there are more of than "we" think?

Is Japan being unfair for limiting its immigration?

Japan is renowned for its racist attitudes so no surprises that you'd be holding it up as a model to aspire to. But, Japan isn't just "unfair", it is incredibly stupid and short-sighted - it has one of the biggest demographic time-bombs on the planet because it decided to limit immigration. Now it's population is ageing, its birth rates are historically low, it's tax base is shrinking and it's social security costs are ballooning. So, in a nutshell, it is a case study into why we shouldn't let racist crazies decide on how immigration should be managed.

 

[Cliffy78]

500million? Isn't that the exact number written on the Georgia guidestone/? It's interesting that we're talking about population control here of all places. I think were all doing the work for the government as far as sterilization of the populace is concerned. Drug use plays a big part in this I think as well as the shit food we eat , fast food, gmo's etc. 500 million does seem like the right number, I know the earth isn't built for 8 billion gluttons, that's for sure. Wars, drugs(prescribed & illegal), food shortages, climate change, the only question left is when not if IMHO...
Great idea for a thread btw...

 

[One Thousand Words]

I have 2.5 kids so in a sense I'm fighting system

 

[What 23]

Look it up, genius.

Now, back to the question: who is the "we" you refer to and what resources do you "believe" there are more of than "we" think?



Japan is renowned for its racist attitudes so no surprises that you'd be holding it up as a model to aspire to. But, Japan isn't just "unfair", it is incredibly stupid and short-sighted - it has one of the biggest demographic time-bombs on the planet because it decided to limit immigration. Now it's population is ageing, its birth rates are historically low, it's tax base is shrinking and it's social security costs are ballooning. So, in a nutshell, it is a case study into why we shouldn't let racist crazies decide on how immigration should be managed.

I didn't want to look it up. You had a tone that inferred it was bullshit/didn't exist.

We, not everyone. Those who have certain projections. About oil. About land sources to grow (technology might be able to offer more solutions). About water. And various elements. We still have asteroid mining, potentially. If only 'we' had the technology to make it feasible.

I also think that with better organization the earth can support more than 'we' might think. We being some who have certain ideas of limits, that might be not high enough. Not that I think we need so many.

As for Japan, I think immigration should be a last resort to solve their problems. Maybe incentives of some sort.

 

[bit_pattern]

We, not everyone. Those who have certain projections. About oil. About land sources to grow (technology might be able to offer more solutions). About water. And various elements. We still have asteroid mining, potentially. If only 'we' had the technology to male it feasible.

I also think that with better organization the earth can support more than 'we' might think. We being some who have certain ideas of limits, that might be not high enough. Not that I think we need so many.

Well I'm glad you said you "believe" because by the sounds of it you're ideas are essentially fairy-tales & not based in any sort of empirical understanding of the world around us.

 

[What 23]

I should have said "may possibly have", or "might have". I was overstepping. In my head it was more this, to be precise. I'm never so certain on something like that. My apologies.

I still believe it has far more, but what we can feasibly get to right now, perhaps not 'far more'.

 

[bit_pattern]

Fair enough. That I can live with. Carry on.