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Opioids poppy tea withdrawl

I can't believe people think poppy pods are a weak opiate or that they won't be as addictive as heroin. Holy fucking shit.

When I was using half a gram of heroin a day, I made a 20 jumbo pod batch of tea. I drank the whole thing over the course of the day and I was nodding harder than I had from heroin in months.
 
^holy fucking shit is exactly what I'm thinking. Lots and lots of misinformation in this thread. I'm glad we have informed members (like Tchort and others)standing on guard ready to correct.

OP, no offense, but just cuz u made this post doesn't give u the right to control what is said in here. Thousands of people will probably read this post at some point. Just cuz someone gave u info that is wrong but that fits what u want to hear doesn't make the info right. Also just cuz someone has experience with addiction doesn't mean they know everything. Often they might think their info is correct and it really isn't and needs rethinking. That's why it's good to talk stuff out on a message board like this. There is tons of stuff that I think I know but I really don't. If someone corrects me that's not a reason to get med. It's a reason to recheck my sources to make sure I don't post incorrect info.
 
yes, get some tramadol. taper off of them.

NA meetings are great too. for some addictions, they are absolutely necessary.

just be honest with yourself as much as possible and ask yourself what is it that you really want? you can beat the demon and get clean before it is too late man.
 
I will post my regular daily entry tonight. but right now i want to clear one thing up. I am an opiate addict. Over the course of 5-8 years i have kicked everything there is to kick in abundance except tramadol. I spent over a month comparing every vendor until i found what I was sure was I was sure are the strongest pods available. I learned all the tricks and check points (thick walls, taste, smell morph boosters ex.) and was consuming as much as 20 6-8 inch pods a day. They were strong and got me very high when I wanted them too. I have used nothing but low doses of kratom and loperamide so far and the wds cannot compare to what I've experienced with the same duration of heroin addiction. At the worst period of my addiction I tried to kick h cold turkey and ended up going blind for 3 hours with all the regular symptoms amped up x 100 and the special exquisite addition of unimaginable abdominal pain that felt like a series of multi shaped knives grinding my organs to shreds. I regained sight in a hospital bed covered in puke and kept telling the doctors I was sure I was dying. Everyone thinks there wds are the worst in the world no matter what the opiate of choice is. But it always canbe worse. These wds are comparable to hydro adddiction or moderate oxy. I know cause I've kicked both. i need no tramadol. Some benzos to help me sleep would be nice. Virtuoso's info may have been wrong but none of you have done anything to debunk it, and I think my experience so far will show that if anything my addiction has been overestimated and that is just as destructive an irresponsible being as underestimated. Many of you are guilty of being hypocrites. Consider that if I listened to those who suggested buph or meth maintnance i would be well on my way to having a another hardcore habit instead of been halfway to sobriety which is where i am now. Ziggy no offense but If you read my recent post you would see that I haven't taken virtuoso's advice or anyone else's on tramadol. I chose kratom and plan on cutting it off asap. I did however agree that maintnance was not necessary. It wasn't. Now I will probably get some responses that say just because you don't need it doesn't mean someone else doesn't. Like i said I've been through the worst of it. This is a cakewalk comparitively speaking. There are a series of diluted posters that are doing nothing but jumping on a bandwagon stroking their own egos and offering nothing. That doesn't include all or even most but you know who you are and you suck. Thanks to everyone that actually tried to help and knows in all honesty where they stand.
 
hey so just outta curiosity, how well is the kratom detox working for your WDs? are they completely gone? do you still feel a bit uncomfortable? does the kratom work better for the psychological or physical symptoms of WD, or does it take care of both to the same effect?

also, have you ever done a bupe detox? if so, how does it compare to the kratom one?
 
Pods are kicking my ass at the moment. Let me know how kratom works for your WD's. My willpower is non existent so every time i make a taper plan i start cheating heh.
 
CretiNation said:
This entire paragraph should be disregarded from this forum forever. Telling somebody their habit is not that bad when you really have no idea WHAT the variables* are in the OP's case does not help in any way. i agree with your numbers as far as the morphine content of dried poppy capsules, but NOT with the way you are using them (Tchort: after witnessing the potential harm of throwin' these numbers around i TOTALLY understand your frustration with 'em!).

*by variables i mean pod weight, prep tech, individual chemistry, etc...

First of all, how do you know how much OP's pods weigh? I have had pods ranging from 2g - 7g (without seeds). here, i'll illustrate how ridiculous it is to tell somebody, over the internet nonetheless, how much morphine he/she takes daily based on "15 poppy pods."

if his/her pods are feather weights (2.5g) they have, like you said, anywhere between 28mg - 94mg morphine. if they are heavy weights (7g) they have between 158mg - 525mg morphine. so, as far as anybody knows, the OP is using anywhere from 28mg - 525mg morphine per day. or, it could be even less or more than that; the point is nobody knows!

and regarding harm reduction it is not only completely impractical to attempt to quantify the OP's daily morphine dose (not to mention qualify his/her habit) but potentially dangerous!

Tchort explained the pitfalls of such speculation far better in another thread...

HOWEVER back on topic, i suggest tapering. unless of course you can somehow start bupe maintenance or detox. but since you said that isn't an option i'd heed the advice and use the great information on tapering in this thread. also, as people have been saying, exercise daily, eat healthy, drink tons of h2o and find something to keep your hands busy!

edit:



i think the reason you're being called out on it is because you're actually using the numbers to judge somebody's habit... there's nothing wrong with discussion or individual hypotheses but when you start telling someone their habit isn't that serious, when there's a good chance it is, the only outcomes are not helpful ones by any means.
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Spot on. Trying to gauge someone's habit based on the dry weight of their starting material is not only stupid but possibly extremely dangerous. Leave the dicksizing for the gym, virtuoso's advice could be potentially fatal to a lot of people. Just because you can handle so much of a certain substance DOES NOT mean that someone else can. Pods vary a great deal in potency and what keeps me well may very well kill you. Pods should always be ground and measured by weight, thus guaranteeing an accurate measurement of your active alkaloids. DO NOT underestimate their potency....
 
Day 2 Kratom experiment-day Total taper: For those of you suffering worse then me, i cannot recommend using kratom for relief as the results thus far are very inconclusive. That seems to be the key word with this drug from the medical articles and personal accounts I've read. Yesterday I experienced a surge of much needed energy and opiate like relief which got me out of bed. 5-6 hrs later I experienced a not so servere crash and switched to loperamide. The same could be said for today except The positive effects were shorter in duration and the crash was worse. I did take a little more today and i experienced some nausea on the comedown. Again I switched to loperamide and I worked astoundingly well. At the moment I feel pretty good. I have to say for over the counter ass pills they are helping tremendously with the wds at doses as low as 8-10 mg. My bms have been normal and i have no trouble eating. I took another hike today after the kratom wore off and the ass pills kicked in. I think fighting the lethargy is part of the reason that i seem to be doing much better then I thought. The one very bad symptom that is still prevalent is insomnia. i didn't sleep a wink last night but i can live with that. I don't know if I'm going to continue the kratom experiment since the loperamide seems to be working better. As far as comparing it to buph tapers well I did that once a long time ago and it was completely different. The buph went strong all day. Day 1-2 i felt some mild wds then days 3-5 were clear sailing but after I finished the taper i had 4-5 additional days of buph withdrawl similar to what i am experiencing now. Like I said the kratom gives me a short lasting burst of energy and clarity with opiate like relief but i wares off fast and the wds come back even worse. I hope this helps in some way.
 
xxantwo who is holding their dick up to a ruler? Lets start by putting the said pod table in proper context since context is obviously a foreign concept to you. Virtuoso drew that up for the sake of supporting his belief that maintnance was unnecessary which I as it turned out was. Lets suppose all his data was total bullshit. How does that support your outrageous claim that it could be potentailly fatal. Can you find one single case off anyone dying from pod wds's. When I was hospitalized I was told by a doctor that even with wds of the worst kind fatality was almost impossible. Many of us are trying are best to be constructive here. If you want to make a point why don't you start by reading the whole thread that way you don't come off like a hack cable news reporter cutting up sound bites.
 
pieeyedpiper said:
xxantwo who is holding their dick up to a ruler? Lets start by putting the said pod table in proper context since context is obviously a foreign concept to you. Virtuoso drew that up for the sake of supporting his belief that maintnance was unnecessary which I as it turned out was. Lets suppose all his data was total bullshit. How does that support your outrageous claim that it could be potentailly fatal. Can you find one single case off anyone dying from pod wds's. When I was hospitalized I was told by a doctor that even with wds of the worst kind fatality was almost impossible. Many of us are trying are best to be constructive here. If you want to make a point why don't you start by reading the whole thread that way you don't come off like a hack cable news reporter cutting up sound bites.
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yes maintenance is maybe unnecessary (if you dont consider replacing papaver with mitragyna, which is substitution) now but how long will this last before you go back. counselling at least would avoid having to admit this serious long term problem to doctors yet help you get some way of viewing this differently. if you dont sort out your thinking and develop coping strategies beside kratom (an opiate drug!) then how will you avoid the addiction that has claimed years of your life in one form or another...

good luck but kratom is still a strong opiate dont forget that

to everyone dicksizing is lame and boring. stop (if you weren't ignore)
 
pieeyedpiper said:
Virtuoso drew that up for the sake of supporting his belief that maintnance was unnecessary which I as it turned out was. Lets suppose all his data was total bullshit. How does that support your outrageous claim that it could be potentailly fatal. Can you find one single case off anyone dying from pod wds's. When I was hospitalized I was told by a doctor that even with wds of the worst kind fatality was almost impossible. Many of us are trying are best to be constructive here. If you want to make a point why don't you start by reading the whole thread that way you don't come off like a hack cable news reporter cutting up sound bites.
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He never said opiate w/d is potentially fatal, I think he meant that if someone read virtuoso's estimates for what he claimed to be the "extreme" end of possible morphine content for a certain amount of pods, they could overdose. As CretiNation pointed out, you can get pods that are much heavier than 2.5g and potentially overdose.

I also think its a little premature to chastise those who recommended maintenance. You haven't even finished your taper/withdrawal! You said you've already kicked heroin before and if you later became habituated to pods, obviously the first time you kicked opiates didn't stick. Is it possible you will relapse? Of course it is, in fact, its likely (i don't mean likely because of something about you, just statistically likely). Maybe you will never touch opiates again and have will power of steel, if not, you could probably benefit from maintenance or a very gradual taper with methadone or buprenorphine while you address the reasons why you use.

edit: didn't see pofacedho's comment before posting
 
Last edited:
Cane2theLeft said:
He never said opiate w/d is potentially fatal, I think he meant that if someone read virtuoso's estimates for what he claimed to be the "extreme" end of possible morphine content for a certain amount of pods, they could overdose. As CretiNation pointed out, you can get pods that are much heavier than 2.5g and potentially overdose.

I also think its a little premature to chastise those who recommended maintenance. You haven't even finished your taper/withdrawal! You said you've already kicked heroin before and if you later became habituated to pods, obviously the first time you kicked opiates didn't stick. Is it possible you will relapse? Of course it is, in fact, its likely (i don't mean likely because of something about you, just statistically likely). Maybe you will never touch opiates again and have will power of steel, if not, you could probably benefit from maintenance or a very gradual taper with methadone or buprenorphine while you address the reasons why you use.

edit: didn't see pofacedho's comment before posting
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Exactly. We all want you to succeed in whatever course you choose, but you've got enough experience kicking and relapsing that no one needs to tell you what happens days, weeks, months down the line after acute withdrawal is overwith.

Temporary maintanence is often a great strategy to achieve lifelong abstinence (if that is what you want, it isn't always the case).

I too am curious how much the Kratom is helping you. Due to the innaccurate and unknown doses involved (like PPT), I've been wary of recommending it to anyone as an alternative to an opioid taper (using Methadone, Buprenorphine, Tramadol, DHC, etc). Have you been keeping track of how much you've been consuming each day?
 
day 5-8 / 3-6 kratom experiment. After one day with no kratom and only low doses of loperamide, I decided to use kratom again to see how it would affect the tail end of my wd's which over the last few days have been almost entirely pyschological very little in the the way of physical. I have found some consistencies now. My insomnia lingers on as does a mild but noticable depression. It seems that when a low dose of kratom wears off (2 1/2 grams super) I find myself dwelling on parts of my life that I would normally be able to come to terms with. Not in a horrible way I've had bouts of major depression in the past and have experienced nothing of the sort from this taper. However I do report a boost in mood and a decline from low to moderate kratom use. I honestly should flush them this point since I don't need them and that is really the point. I just looked at the remainder, wanted to dispose and couldn't. In addition I kept about a quarter oz of straw for emergency use if the physical symptoms proved to be anything like my worst h wds which they didn't. Ive been drinking too much every day for 3 consecutive days. I usually do at the tail end of a taper. In addition I found a hidden stash of poppies growing in my backyard. I simply didn't notice because the flowers were covering the pods. They will be ready to be slashed in 2-3 weeks. Am I to resist that kind of temptation? Using the tools at smart recovery kept me off the junk for 3 years after 3 years of heavy daily h abuse. It was not easy, in fact it was very hard and required that I constantly check myself but I did it once. I have been in the maintnance clinics. My experience there is the reason why I may seem combative to the idea. It was honestly up there with some of the most depressing experiences of my life. Looking around the room at the shriveled imploded faces, seeing how content they were. They had found there new drug. Ok with the fact that they could never again reach the highest peak but never sink into the gutter. THAT IS NO LIFE! In a way it's worse that having an h habit because the unparallel pleasure is the only reason we start to begin with. Without that we wouldn't do it. I would compare maintnance to lithium. It's ok that you never actually deal with your roots because you gain a comforting acceptance of life as you know it. The point is you have to want to stop. I honestly do. I may relapse but I will never let anyone convince me that I have a disease because I have a history of maladaptive behaviors. Aids is a disease, Cancer is a disease, alziemers is a disease. I have choices. Diseases offer none. I may be sick but I am grateful.
 
11 days in, cold turkey detox

HERE IS WHAT HAPPENED TO ME

ZERO HOUR, FRIDAY: Got high for the last time with a 10 pod batch. Tomorrows going to suck.

DETOX DAY 1, SATURDAY: Wake up super depressed and with lots of back pain. I'm am incredibly tired but there's too much pain and restlessness to sleep. I have extremely hyper active arms making it 10 times worse - almost unbearable. Showering helps but only for a minute. The depression, restlessness and mild hallucinations/confusion make it even worse. At one point i found myself outside walking down the street in the freezing cold - i must have figured that was my only option to keep from going insane. I must have squirmed in and out of bed 150 times. I go through about 2 grams of chronic but that does nothing to ease the pain.

DAY 2, SUNDAY: The same as Saturday but worse. I can't sleep or rest even though I and extremely tired. My hyperactive arms are literally driving me nuts. I feel like I'm and a straight jacket. My arms are shooting out from my body in a panic but moving them around doesn't really help. It and almost indescribable feeling and the worst part of the whole detox. I tried heating pads, hand massagers and even PUTTING RUBBER BANDS AROUND MY ARMS TO TRY AND NUMB THEM - thats right. The only thing that help was a freezing cold shower. That would calm my nerves enough to lay down and get 20 minutes sleep before waking up with hyperactive arms again. The cycle continued into early monday with about 20 freezing cold showers - one every 20 to 40 minutes. I tried laying down in the car, outside on the ground, in the motor home - nothing came even close to helping me rest. I go through 2 more grams of marijuana but it really does nothing but maybe take 2-5% of the edge off. Probably the most painful day of my life - BUT DO-ABLE.

DAY 3, MONDAY: About 7 am , in a dazed confusion I get up and drive 1 hour to my dad's house because he's out of town and i know he has a couple of percocet. His house is in the country making it a little easier to rest. Any noises, like a car down the street, are extremely annoying and make the symptoms more unbearable. At about 10 am I take 2 percocet, feel ABSOLUTELY NOTHNG, but am able to sleep 3 hours. in the after noon I take 2 more percocet, FEEL ABSOLUTELY NOTHING but it takes the depression down a notch for a coupe hours. I watch a little FOX News. I make the false statement that I think its getting better. In the evening the restlessness and hyperactive arms return and I continue to take cold showers but it's not really working. Still smoking weed, it really doesn't help but I think that it is necessary.

DAY 4, TUESDAY: Early at about 2 am I can't take the hyperactive arms, legs, and insomnia anymore. I break down and take the last 2 vicoden. Luckily I fall asleep for 6 hours (the most to date) and wake up at around 11 am. Still in pain and restless - I go from the couch, to the bed, to the shower and repeat all three every 20 minutes for most of the day. At about 6pm I decide to drive to the store to buy some beer maybe that will help. While out I get a bug up my ass. Consciousness starts to come back and I start to feel like a human again. I drive around listening to music in the country for a couple of hours. I feel like a kid again smelling things and seeing colors that I haven't experienced in a long time. It's really hard to explain. After that I figured I blew off some energy and will be able to rest for a little bit. WRONG. I decide to drive to my brothers to hang out for a bit. I feel alright on the drive but by the time I get there I'm exhausted and turn around and go back to my dad's house right away. The night is a blur of INSOMNIA, hot and cold showers, hyperactive arms, and back pain.

DAY 5, WEDNESDAY: I feel like i have the flu. I'm trying to force myself to be active but over heat and become exhausted in a matter of minutes. I leave my dad's place and drive home. After driving home and drinking 2 ROCKSTARS I nerd out for a few hours on the computer. Surely I will be able to sleep tonight. WRONG. the night is a cycle of hyperactive arms, insomnia, and showers. The cold showers no longer do the trick I find myself sitting down in the warm shower for what seamed like hours at a time just to get through the night.

DAY 6, THURSDAY: After NO sleep, I go buy some bananas and multi vitamins at about noon. Seriously exhausted from almost a week with no sleep I lay down in the afternoon tired as FUCK and try to go to sleep. I'll give you a wild guess what happens. Tossing and turning and back pain. GOD DAMMIT. In the early evening I get up and force myself to do some chores and blow of some energy that I don't have. I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW LONG IT'S TAKING, I HAVE A WEDDING REHEARSAL TOMORROW. I THOUGHT FOR SURE I WOULD BE BETTER BY NOW - BUT I'M NOT. I still really can't relax, the night is a blur of 10 minute showers every hour. At this point I have a folding metal chair in the shower - thats right. At some point in the night a got about 2.5 hours of sleep. Still smoking weed.

DAY 7, FRIDAY: I feel like shit in the morning. FUCK I HAVE A WEDDING REHEARSAL TODAY. On my way to the rehearsal I get and energy bug up my ass. I feel good and have a great time at the rehearsal and the following dinner. My adrenaline must have been pumping from the excitement of seeing a number of friends and class mates (hotties) that I hadn't seen in years. SURELY WITH ALL THIS ENERGY USE I'll GET SOME SLEEP TONIGHT. NOT REALLY, MAYBE 3 HOURS OF SLEEP AND SIX SHOWERS.

DAY 8, SATURDAY: WEDDING DAY, FUCK I HAVE TO DRESS UP. AT LEAST WE GET TO WEAR SANDALS. I feel like shit in the morning but as I wake up and make my way to the wedding (with the help of a red bull) I start to perk up. The wedding is a blast only bad part was the actual wedding where i had to stand there, head straight, left hand over right for about 35 minutes. The reception was even more fun. I had a couple of beers and was feeling pretty fuckin good. I busted some moves on the dance floor. I felt about 90%. After the reception was the after party. I drank a bunch more beers and did a couple lines of coke. At this point I was care free - until the sun started coming up. After an hour of trying to sleep at the party house I got up and drove home (probably shouldn't have, but oh well). With a belly full of beer I slept for about 5 hours. THANK GOD.

DAY 9, SUNDAY: I'm a little hung over and tired but I get myself out of bed and meet my brothers at the horse races for some gambling, beer and pizza. After a beer and a slice of pizza I feel pretty good but start to burn out in the evening. FUCK, I HAVE GO BACK TO WORK TOMORROW. I STILL HAVE MASIVE INSOMNIA. I BOUGHT SOME BENEDRYL BUT IT REALLY DIDN'T WORK. I get about an hours sleep and take a bunch of - you guessed it - showers.

DAY 10, MONDAY: I force myself up at 8 am and drive a hour to work. I get a little work done (random construction and demo on a building we are converting to a school) but am exhausted and sweating profusely. I take off early and head home. I get a call in the even from a friend with 2 free mariners tickets. My brother and I grab a bottle of Vodka and head to the game. Buy the time we get to the game we are pretty wasted and have a good time. After the game we go home and luckily the vodka helps me sleep. I get about 5 hours sleep.

DAY 11, TUESDAY (TODAY): I force myself up at 8 am again and go to work. Still get tired pretty easily and sweat a lot but some of that could be from a slight Vodka hangover. I took off a couple hours early. That was a couple of hours ago. I hope I can sleep more tonight. I thing the lack of sleep is what's dragging out the detox. I wish i had have had some ambien or something I swear that would have made things earlier. I'm still a little tired and sweat a little but it's getting better. I'd say I'm at 60-70%. Hopefully by the weekend I'll be 90-100%

THE POINT OF MY LONG (past and present tense mixed) STORY IS THAT IF I CAN DO IT, YOU CAN TO. I SPENT A COUPLE DAYS IN HELL AND A FEW NEXT TO IT, BUT I DID IT. COLD TURKEY. BESIDE A FEW OF PERCOCET, A BOTTLE OF TYLENOL, AND SOME PRAYERS IT WAS "EL NATURAL". I EVEN HAD A BRAND NEW BOX OF PODS THE WHOLE TIME. SO OBVIOUSLY IT WASN'T BAD ENOUGH TO BREAK DOWN AND MAKE A BATHTUB FULL OF POD TEA. I REALLY, REALLY WANTED TO QUIT AND GAVE IT 120%. WHEN THINGS WERE AT ITS WORST I THOUGHT ABOUT MAKING SOME TEA. BUT THEN ALL MY PAIN WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR NOTHING. THATS WHAT KEPT ME GOING, I KNOW THAT SOONER OR LATER (turned out to be later) IT WOULD BE OVER.

HOPE THIS HELPS. DETOX NOW, EVERY MONTH THAT GOES BY WILL MAKE IT THAT MUCH HARDER. I WAS ONLY ON THE SHIT FOR 4 MONTHS AND LOOK WHAT I WENT THROUGH (arrow pointing up) TO KICK IT. YA YOU COULD GRADUALLY DETOX BUT WHY DRAG IT OUT AND FEEL 50% FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS ON END.

REMEMBER YOU CAN DO IT BUT YOU HAVE TO REALLY, REALLY, WANT TO.

THE END (sorry for all the caps and typos)
 
Damn this shit is gonna be rough when I finally quit. Thanks for typin all that out, lets me know whats in store for me :(
 
guyrodreguez said:
While out I get a bug up my ass. Consciousness starts to come back and I start to feel like a human again. I drive around listening to music in the country for a couple of hours. I feel like a kid again smelling things and seeing colors that I haven't experienced in a long time. It's really hard to explain.
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I know this feeling, and it's the only good part of withdrawal. It's like a high in itself. You can feel again and have emotions again and it feels so damn good. Almost better than the high you were getting from the drug.
 
Pod withdrawal scares the shit out of me, every time I tell myself I'm going to quit I get about 24 hours into withdrawal and I lose all my will power, Pods when acquired from the proper sources are strong! Stronger than anything else I've done. I'm sitting here right now and it feels like there is a Jacuzzi running through my blood stream, near perfect contentment, and this is only from about four jumbo sized pods ground up and swallowed with grapefruit juice, from this vantage point I'd rather just stay on them for ever but I know my time will come.

I've got about 10 8mg Subs to taper off with when I'm ready, I can also get more (and will probably need more). But I know I'll have to really want it, I didn't know how effective they would be when I first tried them. A decent sized pod habit is nothing to be taken lightly and I've done every other opiate I could get my hands on with the exception of Heroin, although I have access to it I've told myself I won't cross that line. Best of luck to anyone trying to get off of these things.
 
Well written pod wd post. My wd's have been very similar, especially the constant showers (though I would take super hot ones). Pod addiction is serious shit.
 
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