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Opioids Poll:Narcan

V

Viralrush

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
8
I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right area, so forgive me if not. I'm a practicing paramedic part-time while in medical school. So, I've been on many opiate OD's before, some I get to in time, and all is well, some I don't and it ends up me pumping on their chest. I carry around 20mg of narcan (10 2mg narcan doses) at any time on the truck. So my question is, If i started handing out narcan with a rig ready to go to known opiate abusers in my town, would you save it and use it on a friend that has OD'd then call 911 afterwards? I would like some input on this before I make the decision to do so, since they aren't controlled substances, they aren't watched or tracked, but there is some risk associated with me giving it out if caught to the layperson, but if I can prevent one fatal OD, it is worth it. Thanks ahead of time, be safe out there.

-Viral
 
I thought that it wasn't illegal to give out. I saw it on Drugs Inc. in the US. Or are you saying the danger is in you diverting it from your work?

I'd honestly probably use it on the person, and then NOT call 911. I didn't call 911 on a heroin OD once in the past though, so it's better than making us call.

Also, it will make people feel safe shooting doses that aren't actually something they know to be safe.

But overall, definitely make it available
 
It's a wonderful thing to have Narcane/Naloxone around, and yes, some needle exchanges give it out for free (all should in my Oppinion). Thank god I've never had to use it, but the fact that I've known I had a sterile vial filled with the stuff always in sight has made me feel a lot more comfortable in certain occaisions where I felt my gf might have gone overboard and vice versa, and though as I said, we never DID have to use it, just knowing we could in a real emergency is great. Back in the day I'd just show my friends a sealed strip of suboxone and say 'hey, in the worst case scenario, shoot me up with that", so its an obvious improvement.

I would like to say though, that you should be careful about posting possibly incriminating activities such as this one. While I'm not completely sure of the legality surrounding Narcane/Naloxone without a prescription, or rather, a practicing paramedic handing them out to known opiate users, so while I admire such an actions, please be careful (I really don't see what ACTUALL harm could come from handing out Narcane, the drug of anti-abuse)
 
I have used narcan on friends and have had it used on me many times... although it's a horrible experience.. it saves lives and a lot of people I know (including me) wouldn't be around without it. So, I admire what you're doing. It's very important.

As to whether addicts will call 911 after using narcan on a friend... don't count on it. Hah. Many of us want to avoid calling 911 at all costs. The smart ones will but... we're a paranoid bunch.

The danger in that is I have shot people up with narcan, brought them back, but only to have them fall back into their OD once it wore off.. Sometimes if the user has done a really large amount of an opiate, they are still at risk after the narcan for respiratory depression and OD. So obviously calling 911 afterwards is the preferred route... just probably not the likely route unfortunately. But there is no doubt that narcan will work a large portion of the time so it's absolutely better than nothing.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
I have used narcan on friends and have had it used on me many times... although it's a horrible experience.. it saves lives and a lot of people I know (including me) wouldn't be around without it. So, I admire what you're doing. It's very important.

As to whether addicts will call 911 after using narcan on a friend... don't count on it. Hah. Many of us want to avoid calling 911 at all costs. The smart ones will but... we're a paranoid bunch.

The danger in that is I have shot people up with narcan, brought them back, but only to have them fall back into their OD once it wore off.. Sometimes if the user has done a really large amount of an opiate, they are still at risk after the narcan for respiratory depression and OD. So obviously calling 911 afterwards is the preferred route... just probably not the likely route unfortunately. But there is no doubt that narcan will work a large portion of the time so it's absolutely better than nothing.
Click to expand...

There are rare side effects of Narcan, the most previlant being flash pulmunary edema which will kill you and sometimes the opiates outlast the narcan and you're in the same spot, thats why I would prefer people calling 911 afterwards.
 
If it's not a problem taking supply from your job (though I imagine what you're trying to say is, it actually is), I see no negative side of giving out narcan. Only positive events could come from it's use. Hopefully.
 
TCMVegas said:
I thought that it wasn't illegal to give out. I saw it on Drugs Inc. in the US. Or are you saying the danger is in you diverting it from your work?

I'd honestly probably use it on the person, and then NOT call 911. I didn't call 911 on a heroin OD once in the past though, so it's better than making us call.

Also, it will make people feel safe shooting doses that aren't actually something they know to be safe.

But overall, definitely make it available
Click to expand...

I think I saw the same show and there was one guy who went around to houses of known H addicts and gathered them around, gave his speech and left a some narcan for them. Very noble gester and I'm sure he's saved many a life doing what he does. Personally, I don't use the stuff but if I did, I'd sure feel better having it around. Also, how many folks shoot up with another person around? Many times it seems like a solitary sort of routine and unless there is someone else there, you'd still be in trouble. Please be safe guys!
 
I honestly applaud your desire to save someone from an OD even if it means consequences for you, but I think u need to consider something.

You mentioned you are also in medical school. I'm a second yr med student myself and I think you need to consider the possible effect handing out Narcan without permission could have on your medical career. My guess is that you would be ok but the stakes are sooooo high in your case (possibly risking your future in medicine), that this has to be a serious consideration, no matter how slim the risk is that you could be thrown out of med school for example.

You and I both know the sacrifices we've made to get to medical school and I would hate to find out that you were thrown out for simply trying to help. It's a shitty dilemma, but one you must take very seriously.

I may be a little paranoid here. As I said, even if u were caught I doubt e consequences would be so severe that you would be thrown out of med school, but stranger things have happened.


Btw...how the FUCK do u have time to be an EMT while in medical school?? As I said, I'm a 2nd yr med student and I don't have time to take a shit.
 
The only way this would probably work is if they are given out with the clear message that the drug is only meant to buy time until emergency responders arrive.
 
100% yes it should be made available to street opiate users. i used to have a tiny vial but i never needed to use it, i actually got it because of 2 od's that i was witness to. at some point either my old roomate took it or i lost it, but knowing you have that drug in case of a serious emergency not only lets you feel a bit safer about ppl using around you who may or may not be on the same page tolerance wise, but also it lets you save the time that could possibly result in death or bodily damage while waiting for the emt's to arrive. where i live they were there for the first od in about 5 minutes, had we had the narcan then, we would have given it to him.

I think most ppl wouldnt call 911 bc they would see the narcan as an ace in thee hole kinda thing thats almost like a get out of trouble free card, but as many know sometimes one narcan shot isnt enough if the person is serevely overdosed and a second or even third shot may be needed, plus its always safe to take a trip to the hospital after pulling a bluey, or at least be able to get a read on vitals. luckily ive never needed the antidote, i think a few times had a sternum rub not worked they would have shot me up with it, but luckily i have never had to deal with that much induced WD (besides taking a suboxone too early, which is bad enough)

no doubt you would be fired if caught diverting drugs, no matter if it was insulin or saline bags, theft is theft. it should be move available because i mean, its not like its recreational or anything in any way. but when minutes count, having a vial of narcan is most def a good idea and more junkies should be educated on it, and how to use it.
 
I carry around a ready to go narcan kit. it's nasal spray and distributed at exchanges nearby. you should distribute the nasal spray, the needle thing freaks people out. you don't want to lose your job, so the best bet is to work with the city to make a program available. distributing a prescription only drug with a needle to inject it on your own would be considered going rogue by your superiors, and although it would make a heartwarming headline it could end with you unemployed and possibly in legal trouble. if you do it on the side and don't involve it in your work you might have more success. I always say that if you save a life things will work out in the end (i've never actually said that), so if you believe it's the right thing then you shouldn't let anyone stop you.

due to my states high od rate and liberal attitude we were one of the first to have a pilot program. so far it's been very successful, but that doesn't stop people from arguing that it does more harm than good. people say you're more likely to be reckless if you have narcan, they say your less likely to call an ambulance, they think narcan can somehow be harmful if administered for the wrong reason, they say it encourages drug use. moronic if you ask me. read this article

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma.../more_overdose_victims_are_saved_with_narcan/

parents are reviving their children, addicts are using it on their friends. I think its an incredible thing. I would push to start a legit program and if that doesn't work then take matters into your own hands. giving a case of them to dealers would be a good idea, until the dealers start selling them for 10 bucks a vial.
 
Znegative said:
I would like to say though, that you should be careful about posting possibly incriminating activities such as this one. While I'm not completely sure of the legality surrounding Narcane/Naloxone without a prescription, or rather, a practicing paramedic handing them out to known opiate users, so while I admire such an actions, please be careful (I really don't see what ACTUALL harm could come from handing out Narcane, the drug of anti-abuse)
Click to expand...

I agree with this. It clearly comes from very good intentions though, so kudos for that.
I always have Narcan in my room just in case, which I've had to use once so far and which saved me from a potentially fatal OD. If opiate abusers had immediate access to it I'm sure they would use it on themselves (if they can) or on a friend were they to OD, but it's true I wouldn't count on them calling 911 afterwards...but them having naloxone around would still be a big improvement and would already save a lot of people.
 
Narcan is a prescription medication, so I wouldn't hand it out to just anyone. If it's someone you know and trust, you could, but keep in mind that you technically need a prescription to legally obtain/use it.

I have four to six of the vials too, even though I don't use heroin anymore, just in case a friend overdoses.
 
I pretty much agree with the rest of the posters here. What I would add, which my local needle exchange did for me, would be to include a brief pamphlet or little write-up on how to use narcan effectively. They gave me an empty sharps container with a vial of narcan, 4 rigs, and a pamphlet on signs of an opiate overdose and how to use the narcan. That way the container could be passed around to anyone who might need it and eliminate the dissemination of any mis-information, as well as eliminate the anxieties of anyone who thinks they may or may not be using it properly.
 
id give someone narcan if the situation ever arose, but would i call 911 after? not if they were fine n responsive after the shot, medics are kool with me but a lot of the times (especially in tx) the cops come with n if the person is fine after the shot id rather not have the police around personally
 
HighonLife said:
id give someone narcan if the situation ever arose, but would i call 911 after? not if they were fine n responsive after the shot, medics are kool with me but a lot of the times (especially in tx) the cops come with n if the person is fine after the shot id rather not have the police around personally
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and then 20 minutes later when the naloxone wears off they slip back into a coma, only this time their body is still weak from the last one and it takes half as long to kill them. get real man. if they wake up you tell them the risk and that they should call 911 and if they decide to then you suck it up and wait for the emt's to show. if you need to go out the back door when they get there. "not having the police around" or "not having your friend around" forever.

some peoples prioritys are fucked. I'd punch a cop in the dick if it meant saving one of the people who've died around me in the paa\st.
 
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Whenever you report an od the police always show up, thats a given. Personally i think there is no need for them to be there, they will usually always look for something to charge you with. If not the od, then paraphenilia, drugs whatever it may be. If it ever happened again i would just say heart attack and collapsed. Once you have the emts there thats all you really need.
 
the narcan pilot program in my state also makes it so that the police can't search or charge people for reporting an o/d, if they show up and there's an ounce of heroin on the table you might run into trouble, but they don't generally send police to od's. get the number for a private ambulance company, use that if anyone od's around you. it depends alot of the language of the person dialing 911. most won't say its a drug overdose so the dispatcher hears "oh my god its horrible he's turning blue.. no he's unresponsive" and the first thing that comes to mind is assault or attempted murder. this depemds on the area but for the most part the police presence is to make sure the paramedics are safe and so are the bystanders and if it's a crazed gunman or something like that they don't look like idiots for not responding
 
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