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Poll - Do you think Acid is just Acid or Batches Can Vary

B & C make no sense from a pharmacodynamic perspective.
If the substance is impure, the LSD is still there, just in a lower quantity by mass, LSD is LSD and will bind to the receptors all the same.
However if perhaps improper synthesis leads to a product which also contains impurities that are also psychoactive then B & C would hold validity.
 
I very strongly believe that batches can have variance and it certainly DOES make sense from a pharmalogical stand point if you consider the possibilities that that we do not know about the combined activity of LSD breakdown products. The only argument that's ever thrown against what I'm saying is that ISO-LSD and other breakdown products are inactive.
I say so what to that... How do we know they don't show activity in the presence of actual LSD thus qualitatively changing the experience? Mescaline cactus has other sympathomimetic chemicals that are inactive on their own but potentiate mescaline.
I've had such varying experiences on different batches - that has been tested.
I've had some acid that was purely tactile - and that was before I ever tried Ecstacy. You all can think what you want. I have my suspicions and I feel their MORE than justified.
 
Ballz_Trippington said:
I very strongly believe that batches can have variance and it certainly DOES make sense from a pharmalogical stand point if you consider the possibilities that that we do not know about the combined activity of LSD breakdown products. The only argument that's ever thrown against what I'm saying is that ISO-LSD and other breakdown products are inactive.
I say so what to that... How do we know they don't show activity in the presence of actual LSD thus qualitatively changing the experience? Mescaline cactus has other sympathomimetic chemicals that are inactive on their own but potentiate mescaline.
I've had such varying experiences on different batches - that has been tested.
I've had some acid that was purely tactile - and that was before I ever tried Ecstacy. You all can think what you want. I have my suspicions and I feel their MORE than justified.
Click to expand...

That was something I never knew before, very interesting. At the same time it's very hard to tell with psychedelics because even with the same batches of 2ce I have had wildly varying trips due to the unique nature of the psychedelic experience and differences in set/setting etc etc.
 
You don't take into account degradation at all. LSD is not a stable chemical by any means. You might handle it religiously but it's very likely the people who had it before you did not.


That piece of paper has probably been through quite a few hands before it's gotten into yours, how long ago it was made and how much it's degraded since then will likely have a large effect. I had some LSD in solution for nearly a year and when I finally got around to taking it it was quite obvious that the "rough" effects were from it's degradation.
 
My answer is D: you've taken too much LSD
I've read and reread your post numerous times and still can't figure out what your asking??

Edit. I kinda understand...I think set, setting, mind frame, etc have WAY more effect then your trying to read into it. Dose plus things I mentioned.
 
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You're missing one option! I believe most LSD is just LSD, at varying purities which don't have any bearing what so ever on it's effects. But once in a blue moon LSD analogs will make the rounds as LSD. Either due to easier acces of precursors or maybe just because they can.

LSM-775 has once been found in European blotters, as well as another mystery ergoloid as seen in this thread. Possibly LSP or LSB.

Why it's not sell it as an RC if it's legal? Because the origin still is an illegal LSD lab. And because your ordinary acid head never heard of the analogs, and they'll be wary of something they never heard of called LSM-775 or what ever. Most ordinary trippers just want LSD.

I know it's a controversial view, but ask yourself this, how much black market LSD is really tested with anything more than an Erhlich? I'd say 1% tops.

Yeah, as people already point out, options B and C doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Good luck with the can of worms you just opened ;)
 
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For me LSD is LSD is LSD and when having a constant supply to real LSD I have never noticed any stronger differences trip to trip than any other psychedelic. However, I could easily see how some might come to the conclusion that there are different types of L when they're getting a cycle of NBOMe, DOx, and LSD. Please don't give me shit, this is simply my opinion/experience. I know these types of threads tend to turn into shit-storms most of the time...

Another thing I wanna add is that people forget just how variable the psychedelic experience is even off the same drug. A prime example for me was 4-ho-det, my first Ethocin trip was pretty fucking decent but when I decided to give it another shot ~1 month later at the same dose it felt like I took a totally different drug, this trip was full of tremors, anxiety, and nausea. The 4-ho-det was stored in an air-tight, amber vial that I taped over so no light gets in and thrown in the freezer so degradation was not to blame and yes, I defrosted it before opening.
 
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Fagott said:
You're missing one option! I believe most LSD is just LSD, at varying purities which don't have any bearing what so ever on it's effects. But once in a blue moon LSD analogs will make the rounds as LSD. Either due to easier acces of precursors or maybe just because they can.

LSM-775 has once been found in European blotters, as well as another mystery ergoloid as seen in this thread. Possibly LSP or LSB.

Why it's not sell it as an RC if it's legal? Because the origin still is an illegal LSD lab. And because your ordinary acid head never heard of the analogs, and they'll be wary of something they never heard of called LSM-775 or what ever. Most ordinary trippers just want LSD.

I know it's a controversial view, but ask yourself this, how much black market LSD is really tested with anything more than an Erhlich? I'd say 1% tops.

Yeah, as people already point out, options B and C doesn't make any sense what so ever.

Good luck with the can of worms you just opened ;)
Click to expand...
But why go to the trouble of making the (usually) harder to make analogues and sell them as LSD? AL-LAD and LSZ proved there's a market for lysargemide RCs.

As to the op I believe that LSD is LSD, but the inactive remnants from the synth and degradation products may not be as inactive as usually claimed and affect the experience.
 
Folley said:
You don't take into account degradation at all. LSD is not a stable chemical by any means. You might handle it religiously but it's very likely the people who had it before you did not.
Click to expand...

Never noticed that folley - I've had acid in blotter form for at least 3 years and it's as active now as it was 3 years ago. And that's just storing it at room temp.
 
Not this again, please check this thread / unfinished FAQ:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/683253-Dirty-Acid-FAQ-amp-Discussion

I actually added the poll you requested to that FAQ thread, if you have no objections I will proceed with merging this thread into that one.
Sorry but I'm not going to distinguish between your options B and C, that would be the next chapter in this shitstorm of a neverending debate.
 
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Ballz_Trippington said:
I very strongly believe that batches can have variance and it certainly DOES make sense from a pharmalogical stand point if you consider the possibilities that that we do not know about the combined activity of LSD breakdown products. The only argument that's ever thrown against what I'm saying is that ISO-LSD and other breakdown products are inactive.
I say so what to that... How do we know they don't show activity in the presence of actual LSD thus qualitatively changing the experience? Mescaline cactus has other sympathomimetic chemicals that are inactive on their own but potentiate mescaline.
I've had such varying experiences on different batches - that has been tested.
I've had some acid that was purely tactile - and that was before I ever tried Ecstacy. You all can think what you want. I have my suspicions and I feel their MORE than justified.
Click to expand...
Except the problem with that is those chemicals in the cactus which you say are "inactive" are inactive in the sense of effects felt at low doses not in the sense of affinity for receptors these are two separate things. ISO LSD has been tested by David Nichols to have 0 receptor affinity whatsoever so no your comparison is not the same.
 
black53 said:
But why go to the trouble of making the (usually) harder to make analogues and sell them as LSD? AL-LAD and LSZ proved there's a market for lysargemide RCs.

As to the op I believe that LSD is LSD, but the inactive remnants from the synth and degradation products may not be as inactive as usually claimed and affect the experience.
Click to expand...
Simply put no. The degredation products show no receptor affinity.
 
From Erowid:
Which contaminants do appear depends on whether the starting material was ergot, ergotamine tartate or morning-glory seeds. And once these proper precursors have been synthesized into LSD, various isomers and lumi-LSD (LSD saturated with water) may contaminate the final product if not removed by proper chromatographic procedures.

...
There is a great deal of superstition regarding purification of psychedelics. Actually, any impurities which may be present as a result of synthetic procedures will almost certainly be without any effect on the trip.
...

If there are 200 micrograms of impurities present... and few compounds will produce a significant effect until a hundred to a thousand times this amount has been ingested. Even mescaline, which has a rather specific psychedelic effect, requires about a thousand times this amount.


Isomers of LSD are another possible contaminant and indeed are reported present by the drug analysis groups. There are four possible isomers of LSD, but only the d-lysergic acid diethyl amide form is active. The other rotation forms - l-lysergic acid diethyl amide, d and l iso-lysergic acid diethyl amide (contrary to recent reports!) - are inactive. they have no pharmacological role, except possibly as a catalyst for some latent effect of LSD, or to block the action of LSD at the receptor site.
Click to expand...



I'm not sure at all that these impurities play "no pharmacological role", it really doesn't make sense to me. Especially when the symptoms are close to ergot poisoning... obvioiusly they aren't going to impact the "high" through direct physical intoxication but the addition of side effects will CERTAINLY have an impact on a heavy trip.

Ismene said:
Never noticed that folley - I've had acid in blotter form for at least 3 years and it's as active now as it was 3 years ago. And that's just storing it at room temp.
Click to expand...

Blotter is MUCH more stable than liquid, though. The point stands, however. How many times have you taken those blotters out and exposed them to air/light? I'm guessing a very minimal amount of times.



A dealer will have to open his stash nearly ever other day if he's any good, obviously exposing it to the elements quite a bit more.
 
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Ive only ever tried LSD from one batch, but I had 23 hits total in a variety of 1.5 to 5 strip blotter doses from that batch. I noticed a lot of jaw clenching as the doses increased, what Ive seen some to refer to as some of the "body load". And Ive also seen someone say that "good acid" didnt cause a body load and was some kind of serene spiritual epiphany that whisked them from sobriety to afterglow in some kind of wondrous mind explogasm. Which I got a lot of, but I dealt with quite a bit of comeup anxiety at higher doses and accompanying jaw clenching that left my jaw sore for a day or 2 after.

Is it true that there are pure varieties of acid available that dont have traditional "unpure" LSD body loads? Has anyone experienced both an unpure trip with body load AND a pure trip without any body load in their lives?
 
I've had some body load from the same batches of LSD which I normally experience no body load, it can arise from other factors such as lack of sleep or not being nourished before your trip etc.
 
Solipsis said:
Not this again, please check this thread / unfinished FAQ:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/683253-Dirty-Acid-FAQ-amp-Discussion

I actually added the poll you requested to that FAQ thread, if you have no objections I will proceed with merging this thread into that one.
Sorry but I'm not going to distinguish between your options B and C, that would be the next chapter in this shitstorm of a neverending debate.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly, these threads always turn into 'the battle of pure speculation' and constant debate.

FWIW I've experience varying levels of bodyload off the same sheet plenty of times.
 
black53 said:
But why go to the trouble of making the (usually) harder to make analogues and sell them as LSD? AL-LAD and LSZ proved there's a market for lysargemide RCs.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think they are harder to make than LSD proper. And some of the precursors can be easier to get, because ethylamide is just as scheduled worldwide as LSD is. Acually I don't think Shulgins lysergamides have been made before, I'm thinking more some of Hoffmans. Ethylpropyl for instance, MIPLA, LSM etc etc

Yes, AL-LAD and LSZ were sold as RC's, but first they were actually sold on the black market, untill some english RC vendor said "NBOMe's are banned, I'll just buy a bunch of AL-LAD off the black market and sell it legally"

As I've already said, most acid heads don't want to buy SS-LSZX80 from their dealer. They want LSD. If you have a clandestine LSD lab, you already have your routes of distribution set up. You're not going to jeopardize it all by going into some grey area RC market. It's a lot more risky.
 
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