Police Brutality Thread

[empeebee]

what other species has a social construct that allows it's sick and weak to survive

Well if we are talking about hospitals and healthcare systems, the answer would be 'none', for obvious reasons.

If we are talking about species that protect and care for their elderly and their young, the answer would be 'a lot'. Dolphins, whales, gorilla's, elephants have all been recorded protecting their vulnerable. Birds defend their nests and hatchlings against predators.

I recently saw a video in which two adult Africa elephants rescued a baby elephant at risk of drowning in a watering hole. In the past I have seen a video in which an elephant faces off against a crocodile which had grabbed hold of a young wildebeest (I seem to remember it was a wildebeest - but am happy to be corrected) until the crocodile retreated. There are tales (unconfirmed in person but available on YouTube and general searches) of dolphins protecting humans from sharks. I also vaguely remember seeing a documentary many years ago of turtles guarding and shepherding their newborn from the beach into the sea.

I think the argument can thus be made that many species have the social constructs you refer to. Perhaps we do it better as we have more tools at our disposal.

Don't know of any instances of dolphin 'tribes' going to war with each other though.

 

[Deru]

The roots of modern society started growing before men drew lines on maps and the notion of "country".

I agree with this, and that's kind of what I was getting at. In order to understand how our country was founded and has evolved to it's current state, we needed to consider where things were prior to that happening.

 

[Deru]

I'm more inclined to suggest that religion was used as a weapon to control human behavior, not govern it. Exceptions apply, of course.

Govern = Control. At this point, were saying the same thing and arguing semantics.

 

[Deru]

Well if we are talking about hospitals and healthcare systems, the answer would be 'none', for obvious

Subtle nuances of other species attempts notwithstanding, correct. I mean a system that allows many of it's own species, who should have died off in any other situation due to natural selection or otherwise, to remain alive. And not only remain alive, but allowed to reproduce - the opposite of what nature intended. I digress, that subject will go off topic.

 

[empeebee]

I agree with this, and that's kind of what I was getting at

OK, We agree to temporarily erase the lines on the maps then

Govern = Control. At this point, were saying the same thing and arguing semantics

All good. We define the common Glossary or Terms and Definitions as we go along

I mean a system that allows many of it's own species, who should have died off in any other situation...

Our species did too until the advent of 'modern' medicine. It wasn't that long ago, in terms of our evolution, that leeches were commonly used to bleed the bad blood out of the sick. But as you rightly say - this is going in a completely new direction

 

[JGrimez]

Black people have a very specific history in the US, different from any other race. BLM, the USA. Bringing in other races, other time periods, and other parts of the world is obscuring the point. Which I'm sure is what you're trying to do.

What's the point? I'd like to talk about why specifically African-Americans are allegedly at a disadvantage and how that can be helped. But that is a valid point you make about per capita comparing Indian-Americans (many being immigrants) with African-Americans who have a more extensive history domestically. But what I showed does prove that the USA is not a white supremacist country.

Also why is the worst police brutality in strong Democrat cities?

Public health experts do not condemn the protests, I think we were discussing this topic a while ago. But, now many of them have come out and publicly stated the right to protest, the reason for the protest, and the age group involved far outweighs the risks. I was pleasantly surprised to see that what I hypothesized was correct.

Yeah so this to me is a massive litmus test. If this doesn't wake you up or cause some cognitive dissonance then I believe you are completely programmed by the establishment.

We've been warned for months now that even doing stuff like going to the beach alone could put grandmas everywhere at risk from dying. This is the reason they've shut down half the world and billions of people are on track to losing their jobs. Now those same authorities are completely going back on everything they've said - because they think protesting (mostly exaggerated, mind you) police brutality is worth the risk? What do they hope to achieve with these protests/riots versus allowing elderly deaths or possibly accelerating another outbreak? The health authorities also said that just because they support anti-police protests it doesn't mean that anyone is allowed to engage in any anti-lockdown protests. HOW CAN ANYONE BE BUYING THIS LOGIC?

Also police brutality is not a new issue, Doesn't anyone wonder why THAT specifically, all of a sudden is right up in the spotlight and everyone is being extremely pressured to take a knee and follow the agenda?

^ it's as if human beings sometimes decide one thing is more important than another thing. astonishing!

You failed the test too, unsurprisingly.

Those of us who have been paying attention will never support the racist black supremacist group black lives matter. They are racist, militant/extremist, terrorists, and want chaos, and anarchy.

George Soros, the globalist and jewish guy (or white guy depending on how left you are) gave BLM $35 million. This is the same guy who funds groups overseas that enact what looks like organic protests in order to justify removing governments and carrying out a regime change. What's more likely, Soros really cares about black people or he has an ulterior motive? Just look at BLM's hypocrisy - don't care when blacks kills blacks only the (far less frequent) incidents where whites kill blacks.

 

[mal3volent]

Also why is the worst police brutality in strong Democrat cities?

higher population-->more young people , more minorities--> more progressive values--> dem leadership

also no electoral bullshit to thwart the will of the people.

 

[Deru]

Yeah so this to me is a massive litmus test. If this doesn't wake you up or cause some cognitive dissonance then I believe you are completely programmed by the establishment

Am I programmed or able to analyze data and make an informed decision for myself? Who said I'm listening to these public health experts without doing my own research?

I don't take anyone's word alone, I look at the data and make an informed decision on my own. The data is public. Stop relying and worrying about what the media and others say and the paranoia will fade away.

What do they hope to achieve with these protests/riots versus allowing elderly deaths or possibly accelerating another outbreak?

Allowing society to continue to function. The possibility of grandma dieing, with the new set of variables, is less worse than the alternative. I just answered this earlier.

HOW CAN ANYONE BE BUYING THIS LOGIC?

New data, new compounding set of variables. Things change. Simple.

Also police brutality is not a new issue, Doesn't anyone wonder why THAT specifically, all of a sudden is right up in the spotlight and everyone is being extremely pressured to take a knee and follow the agenda?

New compounding variables. The threshold limit to which the majority accepted it was exceeded. Come on, this is too easy.

 

[Deru]

OK, We agree to temporarily erase the lines on the maps then

Sure, for the sake of this discussion. The question is, how far do we go back?

Our species did too until the advent of 'modern' medicine. It wasn't that long ago, in terms of our evolution, that leeches were commonly used to bleed the bad blood out of the sick

And just think, at the time, leeches were brilliant to use. That's what makes our species so unique, our cognition ability and our capabilities to continue to quickly evolve in terms of making these advanced social constructs.

Further, this is why I truly think we would be ready to start evolving into a better one. I wonder even if we were to take everything into consideration, how biased our views would still be of what it would look like. Since, the system has to constantly evolve and be in flux due to the majority to begin with, it's almost like a constantly evolving, moving target of ranges depending upon an almost infinite amount of variables, up to and including how many new people are born everyday and from what socioeconomic backgrounds, among too many others to list.

 

[TheLoveBandit]

 

[alasdairm]

that's really sad

alasdair

 

[mal3volent]

A meme included two images labeled respectively, “The 54th Massachusetts Regiment Memorial vandalized by Black Lives Matter this week” and “The 54th Massachusetts Regiment.” The first was an image of a monument known as the Memorial to Robert Gould Shaw and the Massachusetts Fifty-Fourth Regiment in Boston. The back of the monument was defaced by unknown parties during protests and counter-protests on May 30 and 31 2020. The second image showed the “District of Columbia. Company E, 4th U.S. Colored Infantry, at Fort Lincoln” per the Library of Congress, not the 54th Massachusetts Regiment.

Protests over the killing of George Floyd while in police custody in Minneapolis continued in dozens of U.S. cities [on May 30 2020], and Boston was no exception: After demonstrations here on [the night of May 29 2020] resulted in 10 arrests and injuries to four officers, crowds of protesters came out again on Saturday afternoon [May 30 2020] and evening in downtown Boston.

Adding to the unrest was a State House protest by the group “Super Happy Fun America,” best known for sponsoring last August’s [2019] “Straight Pride Parade.” This time they were calling for Gov. Charlie Baker to repeal all government restrictions related to concern about the spread of COVID-19 and reopen the state immediately, an effort that drew a sizable counter-protest from demonstrators concerned about the spread of the deadly virus and its disproportionate impact on people of color.

It is not clear who was responsible for the vandalism seen in the meme.

‘This is the 54th Regiment’ Memorial Defaced ‘This Week’ Claim

A viral but misleading meme claims a photograph shows the 54th Regiment, and that a memorial to the same regiment was defaced in June 2020.

www.truthorfiction.com

 

[Deru]

If you could find the vandalism to the Lincoln Memorial, that too would be similar to how far some of the people have strayed from what that the movement is all about - purposeful or unwittingly.

 

[empeebee]

The question is, how far do we go back?

I don't think there is any point in going back. We cannot change the past, we can however attempt to change the future but learn from the past so that we don't make the same mistakes again.

this is why I truly think we would be ready to start evolving into a better one.

how biased our views would still be of what it would look like

I don't think we are ready to move forward as the way (one way) it would need to be done, would be to isolate future generations from the bias of the past and present generations otherwise the next generation will be just as tainted as the current one

moving target of ranges depending upon an almost infinite amount of variables

which is why the number of variables has to be reduced

including how many new people are born everyday and from what socioeconomic backgrounds, among too many others to list.

which requires the equalization of socio-economics

 

[Deru]

I don't think there is any point in going back. We cannot change the past, we can however attempt to change the future but learn from the past so that we don't make the same mistakes again.

Lol, I meant how far back do we go for the sake of this discussion. Of course we wouldn't want to devolve - for the majority of the time, anyway.

would be to isolate future generations from the bias of the past and present generations otherwise the next generation will be just as tainted as the current one

That's kind of what I was getting at, the changes would need to be slow and need to be specifically and intelligently targeted, small changes. Evolution happens very slowly, not all at once. But again, who decides what these changes would be?

which is why the number of variables has to be reduced

This is a problem in and of itself, some of the variables can not be reduced, or we would devolve backwards. Some could, potentially, be reduced, but which ones?

The bigger question kind of goes something like this: is our species capable of handling the nuances, on a very finely granular level, to affect the outcome of a system evolving - and what would that look like, without bias, to achieve what one would considered optimized?

 

[empeebee]

@Deru,

"How far do we go back" deserves it own thread, perhaps entitled "How long ago did we fuck up"

The changes could be done a few ways (not claiming to have the ultimate answer here) but it will be based on education and re-education. Who decides, those acting for the common code, who can see beyond lines on maps, colors of skins, slant of eyes, language.

The variables can be reduced. We deliberately impose complications on ourselves, our interactions and society. Ponder a moment on the simplicity of life of socially isolated Amazonian tribes. ranted they don't have mortgages, TVs, cellphones, refrigerators, malls, supermarkets and so on, but they sure as hell look a lot more satisfied with life than modern society. This doesn't mean would should all start wearing bearskins and return to nature, it means we should learn from our ancestors, aka the past.

 

[Deru]

Who decides, those acting for the common code, who can see beyond lines on maps, colors of skins, slant of eyes, language.

I agree this all sounds great. But when you start talking about seeing beyond lines on a map, I need to stop you. Although it's fine in the context of figuring out how we got here, out of that context it doesn't work.

Different countries, different societies are all at different points than our country is and all function, currently, with their own idiosyncrasies and nuances. Take for example of how mental disorders are diagnosed, they are based on cultural norms that differ from culture to culture. It's something constantly in flux.

That would start to lead into a one world government type thinking, which is beyond impossible, especially considering there are still tribes and people who have been untouched by any type of modern society to this day.

Some things can be simplified. Human behavior, as it is, in it's most basic form is beyond insanely complex. Add in more than one human being, and it's chaos. And that's where social constructs come into play, to find some type of equilibrium in the chaos, to further benefit our species, as a whole.

I agree, everything you're saying sounds great. In realistic terms, I don't think were quite ready for that much evolution.

If we're just limiting the scope to systemic racism and social injustices, then yes, that would be easier to change - I think if we start with that example in our country and set a precedent, then maybe other countries will follow. But, we can't ignore these lines on a map because they are essential to how that change would happen in current day situations. That's what I meant when I said our species was ready to evolve now.

 

[empeebee]

Different countries, different societies are all at different points than our country is and all function, currently, with their own idiosyncrasies and nuances

You wouldn't be introducing variables that may not necessarily be required in the global context now, would you?

at different points than our country

You're doing it again, need to apply a little top-down thinking

how mental disorders are diagnosed, they are based on cultural norms

I tend towards the belief that diagnosis is based on medical training and availability of the diagnoser than cultural norms.

That would start to lead into a one world government type thinking

Going to disagree with this. You would still have multiple regional governments, with multiple belief systems and customs, but there would all be based on the foundation that all men (and women ) are created equal, have equal opportunities, have equal education, have equal access to healthcare, etc.

I don't think were quite ready for that much evolution

Depends on how you sell it. If wider society were to believe that the evolution (revolution?) would improve their quality of life (i.e. pander to their self-interest) you could probably do this within one or two generations. Politicians have been doing something similar for nearly a century. Gotta learn from the past right?

 

[Deru]

@empeebee One thing I'll concede, is you were definitely right, this needed it's own thread

 

[Deru]

Going to disagree with this. You would still have multiple regional governments, with multiple belief systems and customs, but there would all be based on the foundation that all men (and women ) are created equal, have equal opportunities, have equal education, have equal access to healthcare, etc.

I edited in my last post, not sure if you saw it, but I somewhat touched on this. And, I'll agree more to your point here, if we are just limiting the scope to equality (and I won't be difficult and we can just agree on the standard variables for equality) - then for this alone, a top down approach may work.