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Bluelighter
Prohibition clearly keeps drugs out of the hands of kids.
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⫸STICKY⫷ Pm(m)a warning thread -- now: red Chupa Chups & possibly 'Teddy Bears'
- Thread starter BigG
- Start date
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
It is not 'sasafrol' but 'safrole' that is the classic precursor for MDMA.
And it does appear younger kids are more sensitive to MD. Seen a 13yo girl need me to hold her hair back and carry her to the bogs to barf on a comeup during a party many years ago, whereat, I had taken the same dose (and indeed my first) of MDMA. Some real good double cherries back in the day. This girl prunie, had had one, so had i, and being somewhat older, and the older of the partygoers were fine, but this girl, and a couple of younger lasses did need to spew.
Although the table laden with beer and vodka by the hosting family possibly had something to do with it. I preferred the diethyl ether I'd brought as part of my contribution (the other being some home-done yopo snuff), as I am not a huge drinker, many of the younger girls did rather lay into the EtOH however. Personally I stick more to the ether, since there is little hangover with it.
And it does appear younger kids are more sensitive to MD. Seen a 13yo girl need me to hold her hair back and carry her to the bogs to barf on a comeup during a party many years ago, whereat, I had taken the same dose (and indeed my first) of MDMA. Some real good double cherries back in the day. This girl prunie, had had one, so had i, and being somewhat older, and the older of the partygoers were fine, but this girl, and a couple of younger lasses did need to spew.
Although the table laden with beer and vodka by the hosting family possibly had something to do with it. I preferred the diethyl ether I'd brought as part of my contribution (the other being some home-done yopo snuff), as I am not a huge drinker, many of the younger girls did rather lay into the EtOH however. Personally I stick more to the ether, since there is little hangover with it.
bogman
Bluelighter
Green Smurfs tested in NL with 70mg PMMA
Pink Supermans 160mg PMMA
Pink Star 82mg PMMA 3mg MDMA
White Diamond 59mg PMMA 1mg MDMA.
All above found here http://www.drugsredalert.nl/
Pink Supermans 160mg PMMA
Pink Star 82mg PMMA 3mg MDMA
White Diamond 59mg PMMA 1mg MDMA.
All above found here http://www.drugsredalert.nl/
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
What's the point in putting 1 or even 3mg MDMA in a pill that's predominantly PMMA? Or could a dodgy synth produce both compounds in varying ratios?
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
Simple, to fool a testkit. Even with trace amounts of MDMA those pills will test positive for it
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Ah. Surely that means test kits are a waste of time if they are so easily fooled?
steewith2ees
Bluelight Crew
This. It's been a concern of mine since the 07/08 drought and subsequent piperazine explosion but if this is the reality then a simple marquis reagent may just not cut it at all any more (it's all I have ever bothered with) - would a full set of test reagents be able to pick this poison up? I've never used anything else to test apart from the above (and prior to my discovering PR's and reagents - my gob + 'brain').
EDIT: ok so a quick google suggests that a Mandelin should detect both PMA & PMMA. ?.
EDIT: Ok so I should have read Si's post before even commenting. Ignore me it's early.
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Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
'mastercard' pills. Potentially lethal. On the news the other day (manchester area news) do not know extent of issues.
Pills shown were not specified as to ingredient, but said to be a 'variant of' 'extacy' and are of a distinctive shape-like a figure 8, solid where the holes would be in an '8' numeral character. Looked orange, the ones shown. These are potentially lethal. And have hospitalized, and I believe already killed.
Pills shown were not specified as to ingredient, but said to be a 'variant of' 'extacy' and are of a distinctive shape-like a figure 8, solid where the holes would be in an '8' numeral character. Looked orange, the ones shown. These are potentially lethal. And have hospitalized, and I believe already killed.
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
Read that too. Picture for reference. No confirmation what the cause is. Could have been heat stroke, could have been something else. RIP
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Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
And the hypothesis that the cause of PMA being made, likewise PMMA is easier to obtain the precursors for compared to more desirable compounds such as MDxx, MMDAs, TMA and analogs, nobody is really interested in controlling anethole. It is present in many essential oils, and easy to obtain. Whereas safrole-containing plants are more difficult to get hold of, parsely and its essential oils are not difficult or extremely regulated. The same types of syntheses are used for either, and various other propenylbenzenes and allylbenzenes are present in essential oils of many plants, its not like they are going to be able to eradicate availability of parsely (the allylbenzenes can be isomerized to the propenylbenzenes usable for production of the 'essential amphetamines' as Sasha Shulgin termed the ten or so amphetamines produced from such essential oils) and there are many present in nature, in essential oils of many common plants. Unfortunately safrole is one of the ones present in plants more difficult to obtain.
Although even things like cork, and oilseed rape residues after extraction of the oil from oilseed rape could provide better, more useful polyalkoxlated phenolics for production of those of greater items, various such entities are hosted, some in multiple mixtures of varying concentrations per phenylpropenoid, and at greater or lesser levels to others.
Sadly it seems anethole is the easiest to obtain by clandestine chemists, along with eugenol from clove oil, which if ring-methylated would give interesting things, or if first formed into an amphetamine, and the ether linkage cleaved to give a diol type moiety could then be methylenated with methylene bromide or better, methylene iodide (iodide is a better leaving group and ought to give a bit better yield than bromide), if simply made into an amphetamine then the result from eugenol would be 2,4-dimethoxyamphetamine, after methylating its remaining phenolic group using fr.ex MeI (before forming the amphetamine, so as to avoid formation of secondary/tertiary amine derivatives from the primary aminated amphetamine derivatives. The entactogens can tolerate a sec. amine, and the simple stimulants (E.g methamphetamine) it works, but the psychedelic amphetamine pharmacophore will not tolerate well a secondary or tertiary amine. Secondary amine versions of, just for example, picking one or two at random, DOx, or TMA-x lead to dramatically reduced potency and effectiveness, and effects closer to antidepressants, a tertiary amine would probably kill it right off or damn close to it.
Although even things like cork, and oilseed rape residues after extraction of the oil from oilseed rape could provide better, more useful polyalkoxlated phenolics for production of those of greater items, various such entities are hosted, some in multiple mixtures of varying concentrations per phenylpropenoid, and at greater or lesser levels to others.
Sadly it seems anethole is the easiest to obtain by clandestine chemists, along with eugenol from clove oil, which if ring-methylated would give interesting things, or if first formed into an amphetamine, and the ether linkage cleaved to give a diol type moiety could then be methylenated with methylene bromide or better, methylene iodide (iodide is a better leaving group and ought to give a bit better yield than bromide), if simply made into an amphetamine then the result from eugenol would be 2,4-dimethoxyamphetamine, after methylating its remaining phenolic group using fr.ex MeI (before forming the amphetamine, so as to avoid formation of secondary/tertiary amine derivatives from the primary aminated amphetamine derivatives. The entactogens can tolerate a sec. amine, and the simple stimulants (E.g methamphetamine) it works, but the psychedelic amphetamine pharmacophore will not tolerate well a secondary or tertiary amine. Secondary amine versions of, just for example, picking one or two at random, DOx, or TMA-x lead to dramatically reduced potency and effectiveness, and effects closer to antidepressants, a tertiary amine would probably kill it right off or damn close to it.
Fishface
Bluelighter
Bugger . . .
Limpet_Chicken
Bluelighter
I'd very much prefer it if you didn't 
thats an exit-only route. Unless the thing to enter is a needle-less syringe loaded with strong opiates, some sort of potent DARI or both.
All joking aside (well mostly joking, I'd definitely prefer not to be buggered), its fucking prohibition and the anti-drug fundamentalist fruitcake mindset that most politicians seem to be so desperate to cling to their diehard faggotry over that causes it. If there were no prohibition, I doubt that, short of Shulgin's bioassays in PIHKAL etc. and the odd (would no longer have to be-)clandestine chemist of the xenobiotic psychotropic enthusiast variety, as soon as the danger became known of PMMA and PMA they'd ever see the light of day, and certainly people would be concentrating on MDxx, their benzofuran, cathinone analogs, TMA derivatives, 2C-Tx, MMDA analogs. If only we bees and bee-ettes could just pop online and place an order for a pint of sassafrass essential oil, brown camphor oil, or even pure safrole, things like dillapiol, and any of the propenyl/allylbenzenes or the essential oils that we can distill them from and in the case of the allylbenzenes, isomerize them to the propenylbenzenes needed, these deaths just wouldn't happen, save for cases of people being seriously irresponsible, or truly tragic, and rare accidents, incidents resulting in deaths would be massively higher even if these safer, superior methyloxylated or methoxymethylenedioxy-substituted amphetamines were to be as commonly used as alcohol, I'm pretty fucking confident that the toll from alcohol on society would be far higher. Not only on users directly, but in those who drunks so often hurt, deliberately or otherwise. Ever seen MDMA turn somebody into a bloodthirsty thug? I haven't. On the other hand I've been in a couple of scrapes with drunken trash that I am lucky to have survived. Such as a 40-odd foot drop off a railway bridge, or getting the shite kicked out of me, knee crippled permanently and left for dead, leaving me on opioids for, most probably, life (and to say nothing of failed surgery leaving further nerve damage) and having my head stamped on. Or face split open with a brick. Had the same worthless pieces of dog shit been on MDxx or similar, bet my arse that these things would not have happened.
thats an exit-only route. Unless the thing to enter is a needle-less syringe loaded with strong opiates, some sort of potent DARI or both.All joking aside (well mostly joking, I'd definitely prefer not to be buggered), its fucking prohibition and the anti-drug fundamentalist fruitcake mindset that most politicians seem to be so desperate to cling to their diehard faggotry over that causes it. If there were no prohibition, I doubt that, short of Shulgin's bioassays in PIHKAL etc. and the odd (would no longer have to be-)clandestine chemist of the xenobiotic psychotropic enthusiast variety, as soon as the danger became known of PMMA and PMA they'd ever see the light of day, and certainly people would be concentrating on MDxx, their benzofuran, cathinone analogs, TMA derivatives, 2C-Tx, MMDA analogs. If only we bees and bee-ettes could just pop online and place an order for a pint of sassafrass essential oil, brown camphor oil, or even pure safrole, things like dillapiol, and any of the propenyl/allylbenzenes or the essential oils that we can distill them from and in the case of the allylbenzenes, isomerize them to the propenylbenzenes needed, these deaths just wouldn't happen, save for cases of people being seriously irresponsible, or truly tragic, and rare accidents, incidents resulting in deaths would be massively higher even if these safer, superior methyloxylated or methoxymethylenedioxy-substituted amphetamines were to be as commonly used as alcohol, I'm pretty fucking confident that the toll from alcohol on society would be far higher. Not only on users directly, but in those who drunks so often hurt, deliberately or otherwise. Ever seen MDMA turn somebody into a bloodthirsty thug? I haven't. On the other hand I've been in a couple of scrapes with drunken trash that I am lucky to have survived. Such as a 40-odd foot drop off a railway bridge, or getting the shite kicked out of me, knee crippled permanently and left for dead, leaving me on opioids for, most probably, life (and to say nothing of failed surgery leaving further nerve damage) and having my head stamped on. Or face split open with a brick. Had the same worthless pieces of dog shit been on MDxx or similar, bet my arse that these things would not have happened.
BlueBull
Moderator: MDMA
bogman
Bluelighter
Grey 3D Diamond pills being lab tested in NL.
115mg MDMA + 30mg PMMA
115mg MDMA + 30mg PMMA
steewith2ees
Bluelight Crew
unbelievable. what is the point in tainting them with such a high risk substance if they can include what is at least a moderate - reasonable dose of mdma?
F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Could it just be a case of a poor synth? I'm no expert but I believe that PMMA can be a by product of of a botched reaction or summat. There is certainly no logic in adding it to an otherwise good product...
steewith2ees
Bluelight Crew
Interesting notion, but looking closer it appears that 'PM(+M)A is commonly synthesized from anethole, the flavor compound of anise and fennel, mainly because the starting material for MDMA, safrole, has become less available due to law enforcement action, causing illicit drug manufacturers to use anethole as an alternative.' (wikipedia) and this case report states that 'PMA is not a by-product in the synthesis of MDMA, and it would appear that MDMA is also not produced in the synthesized of PMA.'
BecomingJulie
Bluelight Crew
A molecule which is a drug that should not be combined with an MAO inhibitor at one end, and an MAO inhibitor at the other end, could not possibly exist in the same universe as a loving God.