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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

Pledges, promises & other bullshit from the Parties...

The grassroots members of the labour party are decent people, on the whole. The grassroots members of the Tories and the lib dems are grasping, closet racist homophobes and unprincipled cowards respectively. That's the difference
 
Shambles said:
Oh I don't disagree. Am just pointing out that all the other parties do the same all the time and this was clearly a case of the weaker party being humiliated early on by the stronger party in a coalition government to muddy the future election waters in the hope of distracting gullible people with shiny (actually grubby) things whilist missing the massive shit they took upon everybody - including those who believed in their own manifesto promises - in the meantime.

Honestly, SHM? I think of you as a more sophisticated political animal than that and am kinda surprised how easily you will take negatives towards a party you dislike whilst ignoring the very same issues with other parties (I'm gonna potshot that you probably broadly go with Labour who also lied on tuition fees... if by some miracle you are Tory then they also lied on tuition fees). Gotta say I'm disappointed with your apparent knee-jerk partisanship which smacks of tabloidism which is not usually your kinda thang so am a tad confused in all honesty :?
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I'm a Communist. Anarchist on a good day. I'm merely pointing out Greenthumbs ridiculousness on believing manifesto pledges.

Burn it down.
 
Dear Electorate

You have as much chance of winning the election as I have of winning last nights lottery.

LOL etc.

Thank you and goodnight.
 
By members, I mean just that - I'm not talking about the politicians or wannabe politicians (I'm not a member, by the way, so you can't hold that against them ;) )
 
spudgun said:
The grassroots members of the labour party are decent people, on the whole. The grassroots members of the Tories and the lib dems are grasping, closet racist homophobes and unprincipled cowards respectively. That's the difference
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I'd say if only it was as easy as that - black hat, white hat. The grassroots members of all the parties are decent people at heart, but with differeing perspectives and different categories of 'other'. I make it easy on myself and just say: all people are nice - some just need more effort to see their niceness as they hide it so well under self loathing directed outwards. Seeing the nice qualites in people, any people, is so much more important to me than judging them according to the particular brand of bollocks they've been infected by. I can hate certain types of politics but never the people - they're just deluded idiots like the rest of us.
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
I'm a Communist. Anarchist on a good day. I'm merely pointing out Greenthumbs ridiculousness on believing manifesto pledges.

Burn it down.
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Who says I believe them. I just repeated them. I even said the Lib Dems are full of shit, you can see they're muddled hypocrites just from their manifesto pledges about liberalising possession & cracking down on dealers.

I think it's some small amount of progress that it's being mentioned in a couple of the smaller parties manifestos, but I don't believe it'll happen, neither of those parties is going to win or make it a coalition deal-breaker.
 
Vurtual said:
I'd say if only it was as easy as that - black hat, white hat. The grassroots members of all the parties are decent people at heart, but with differeing perspectives and different categories of 'other'. I make it easy on myself and just say: all people are nice - some just need more effort to see their niceness as they hide it so well under self loathing directed outwards. Seeing the nice qualites in people, any people, is so much more important to me than judging them according to the particular brand of bollocks they've been infected by. I can hate certain types of politics but never the people - they're just deluded idiots like the rest of us.
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Obviously I was ramping things up a bit for polemical effect, but I reject the idea you can't judge people for their core beliefs. This effete attitude that 'we''re all good deep down' glosses over the fact that some attitudes need to be challenged if we're ever going to progress.

I'm sure members of Combat 18 have nice qualities, it doesn't mean I can't hate them for what they stand for.
 
Ooooo I was loving that debate last night n well lets face it the fact the rats never showed up just speaks VOLUME to the people doesn't it?! Cameron has made a mockery of this country; ruined our welfare system - nicely got the workers hating people on benefits, done fuck all to sort the immigration problem. I'm not racist but we do not have room to keep letting everyone into the country. We just DONT. Already building more houses, getting rid of nature (our survival resource). Major cuts to the NHS, AnE departments are burst with people, people needing bed in hospital having to be sent home.

Surely people are not planning on voting him in again? We'll all be poir, having to go to food banks, the country will be too full n we can kiss our countryside goodbye. The Americans will finally be right by cling the UK, London because that's what it's going to look like - rows n rows n rows n rows of houses everywhere, the sky may as well be the smoke as its all going to be poluted to hell with vehicles trying to ram their way hom / to work; more ashma, more lung problems.............

What a joyful future. No one will be homeless though ;)

Evey
 
I agree - its a shamble's - let them talk there bullshit as its only there own rep ( if they have any rep?) they are ruining? fuck them i say. make a stand and take the country!

lets get high and forget all about it kids.. :!
 
spudgun said:
Obviously I was ramping things up a bit for polemical effect, but I reject the idea you can't judge people for their core beliefs. This effete attitude that 'we''re all good deep down' glosses over the fact that some attitudes need to be challenged if we're ever going to progress.

I'm sure members of Combat 18 have nice qualities, it doesn't mean I can't hate them for what they stand for.
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Effette or not it's my choice of world view. Notice i said i can hate their politics and so their attitudes, so i am judging them for their beliefs, but individually they're just lost souls the same as me - combat 18 included (even especially). I hate their politics and want them to not believe in it partly as an act of care for them as a human. Whether accurate or not, i just prefer the world when i view it that way, so that's my choice. In hippy language, infinite love = infinite understanding (or if you could understand anyone fully enough, you would love them fully). Don't get me wrong, i'm not a pacifist and wouldn't chuck flowers at them if they descended on vulnerable people in my community (i'd probably run away actually, have you seen them? ;)).

...

Evey - agree with you about the tories, though i'd say we would have room/resources for the immigrants if the public services hadn't been cut so much, or been expanded as needed (they weren't so there are problems) - expanding services this way would actually make the economy grow by putting money in workers' pockets. Apparently the economy at the moment would be in an even worse state than it is (in official terms) if we hadn't had the immigration we have had recently - i read something somewhere saying that immigration from europe is part of the reason our economy is doing better relative to continental europe (many other factors obviously (QE)) - the tories always bang on about the record employment figures, the highest ever; they talk less about how much of this is from immigrants (or how much of the unemployment figure is made up of sanctions for that matter); similarly immigrants proportionally claim less benefits than indigenous people so their tax has helped the strain on the defecit. (also, an interesting fact about health tourism: we get quite a bit more money in from people from abroad who pay for their treatment in the NHS than we pay out for so-called health tourists who get it for free - they keep quiet about that one too (worth remembering for when talking to kippers))

I'm happy for people from anywhere to live in my community but i don't particularly agree with the government/EU policy of encouraging mass immigration as it's mainly there to benefit bosses by putting downward pressure on wages - the answer to this is to fight for better workers rights, union powers and full employment; if we also campaigned to do this across europe (along with syriza and podemos) there'd be less need for people to move around anyway (and people would much rather stay where they come from if they could).
 
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Vurtual said:
(and people would much rather stay where they come from if they could).
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But why?

For myself, I couldn't stand to live where I was brought up. Small town, small-minded idiots for whom violence was the only outlet from their narrow lives. Aren't we naturally nomadic? Didn't we all start out from somewhere in Africa (or somewhere) and move on accordingly?

Where did the phrase 'broaden your horizons' come from do you think? Where do you think conservatism is bred from?
 
with you on that one


StoneHappyMonday said:
But why?

For myself, I couldn't stand to live where I was brought up. Small town, small-minded idiots for whom violence was the only outlet from their narrow lives. Aren't we naturally nomadic? Didn't we all start out from somewhere in Africa (or somewhere) and move on accordingly?

Where did the phrase 'broaden your horizons' come from do you think? Where do you think conservatism is bred from?
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...e-ashamed-to-admit-im-from-essex-9425810.html
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
But why?

For myself, I couldn't stand to live where I was brought up. Small town, small-minded idiots for whom violence was the only outlet from their narrow lives. Aren't we naturally nomadic? Didn't we all start out from somewhere in Africa (or somewhere) and move on accordingly?

Where did the phrase 'broaden your horizons' come from do you think? Where do you think conservatism is bred from?
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I meant to say 'most people' - i think the majority of people are homebodies and do want to stay where they're from (at least in terms of country) unless circumstances make it difficult (can't remember where i read this but it was based on some sort of something). I'm glad the minority who do wander do or else the rest would be even more small minded than they/we are as you said - We all benefit when people are emigrating to broaden their horizons - when they're just desparate to survive i'm not so sure (we and they still benefit, maybe the country of origin doesn't). It's pie in the sky but it'd be better to fix what's wrong in the shit-poor countries (ie us keeping them poor so we stay rich, in simple terms) so people don't need to emigrate - wanting to emigrate is something else (i'm probably patronising you now :))

Until then i'd personally let anyone in as payment for all the wealth extraction and war we've got up to in the shit-poor countries over the centuries (and still do). Not to mention all the tax money corporations based in poor countries avoid helped by the city of london tax haven network (billions at least) - we do owe the world big time.
 
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Vurtual said:
Effette or not it's my choice of world view.
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I try and see the best in people too mate (even the most salivating of the knuckle-draggers), but I don't think it does the discourse any favours when people say 'they're all the same, it's all bullshit' when, in fact, there's some quite fundamental differences between the mindsets involved.
 
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I agree totally (i don't think i said that though). if you heard me shouting at the telly at the politicians i wouldn't sound quite so hippy-dippy - i try and remember at the end of a tirade about 'the cunts' to add on 'i'm sure he's lovely in his own terms though; i'm sure his kids/wife/mum love him' - i mostly forget though. I'm just like everyone else - i've got 'others' (maybe faceless bankers, neoliberals or the royal family currently) - so far i've found my 'othering' doesn't survive individual contact with the 'enemy' (not that i've met the royal family or any bankers).

When i talked about everyone being infected by bollocks i didn't mean all politics were equally bollocks or i wouldn't waffle about socialism so much - i meant concpetual frameworks in themself are ultimately bollocks (in the sense of being a map not a territory - bit too metaphysical for a politics thread maybe) and are often just built by grabbing the most convenient clothing available to cover our existential nakedness as we grow - underneath that is the true person which i can only love (cos i also happen to believe we're somehow all the same person anyway (btw blame post 1plsd mania for all this waffle - i'm usually a bit more sensible)
 
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