Piracetam & Psychedelics

[yaesutom]

Experimenting with taking 700-1200mg piracetam a while or same time as one of my normal dex-amphetamine doses (morning usually). I might notice a little of some potentiation, but barely anything (it could just be, the day, my mood, placebo effect), maybe I should try 4-5g next time.

Just takes a few minutes to put it in some capsules, and after I eat them i dont notice anything else of..anything helpful, but since it won't hurt i'll try a big dose with d-amphetamine next time. Yay. Exciting.

 

[gnrm23]

piracetam & several other potentially interesting "smart drugs" are available from euro & brit & asian vendors...
check out the nootropics vault at erowid.org...
the ceri link there has an old list of vendors, most of whom are still selling various substances alleged to tweek up cognitive functions...

 

[who mE?]

Can someone tell me if piracetam is an OTC available drug in the US? I've never heard of it before.

YES it is legal and available within the US, no, you can't get it from your corner pharmacy. I do know a great source of nootropics in bulk powder form within the US... (PM me)

Also, I've been taking piracetam (1600-2400mg) or aniracetam (500mg) with dexedrine (2.5mg) every day, and I don't notice any potentiation from them (although I've got a natural super low tolerance to dexedrine).

 

[blase deviant]

2.5mg dexedrine? Is that even past a threshold dose?

 

[blase deviant]

Piracetam activated striatal and hypothalamic total MAO, hypothalamic MAO A and MAO B but exerted a pronounced inhibitory effect on MAO A and MAO B activity in the striatum

PMID: 3137089 (PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE)

Does this mean it's a MAOI, which you aren't supposed to mix with SSRIs? Or does it mean something different by 'pronounced inhibitory effect on MAO A and MAO B activity in the striatum'?

 

[yaesutom]

^^^^^

Yeah some of that makes no sense..typo's maybe?

Just a google search brought up all sorts of stuff about it, mao this, that, dopamine there, here, blah, serotonin, etc..

Well.... I had the BEST 2c-d trip ever a couple days ago. I had taken some piracetam a while before, but also i think because i took a 30mg pregnenolone also early that day, most likely had a lot to do with what happened..

Usually, any dose of 2c-d, lasts...4hrs, MAX, i mean, i'm totally sober then. I start coming down at 3hrs-3.5 usually sort of fast (from the time the trip actually starts to come on). Well, I took 70mg, and also 10mg d-amphetamine (for some reason, with 2c-d I do like the amphetamine, why? i dunno!). Well, i dose off for 2-3 hours. I did take the capsule of 2c-d and dexedrine in the middle of eating, which as expected it would take longer to kick in.

Well, when I woke up, the amphetamine was definitely working, and I felt very 'relaxed' more like meth/more dopamine. I found it wierd that i'd be sleeping so well.. (afterwards I read on erowid of a trip report of someone who also would take amph. with 2c-d, and it would help induce trance like states/relaxation).

Well waking up there were very very minor visuals, like it was just starting up. Well it got going good, around 4-5am i'd say the 'trip' really started. Well, it was the BEST, and longest lasting 2c-d trip i've had...awesome!

I was still semi-tripping at noon-1pm, and eventually just went to sleep then. I'd say around.. 9-10am, (didnt keep much track of the times..), i took a capsule of piracetam. I had a conversation with a sober person, who had no clue I was tripping strong. Thats one thing i love about 2c-d, with me, it seems it would take a LOT of that stuff to induce any kind of 'ego-loss'. After a half hour or so, i noticed, the trip was boosting back up! Awesome, super clear visuals..rainbows..strongest trip i've had on 2c-d. It also had this, pain numbing effect which i've noticed before on 2c-d (and 2c-p) which I can just guess it was a dopamine related thing..

Its now a few days later, and i've been experimenting with piracetam. I do notice the feeling of "the left and right parts of the brain are communicating a lot more information", a feeling of being "more conscious" than normal. Opposite of a dissociative. More 'access' to the more creative, parallel processing right half of the brain. Motion and vision, are more "fluid", like MDMA, multitasking is much easier.

It seems to allow me to be more aware of my mind, in a strange way. When I take a dexedrine with/after taking piracetam, I can "see" ...uhh...brain stuff, moving faster, thats all i can really explain about that..

Right now I am on dexedrine with piracetam before, and I even tested out 200mg caffeine before that. It seems like, if i just take piracetam alone, I notice more patterns and things, like a mild psychedelic. When the dexedrine kicks in, or even the caffeine somewhat, the patterns aren't visible anymore, and i am "extra" focused on things. My eyes also can jump from looking at something close, and then far away, and focus faster than normal.

I don't know really for me, if piracetam alone, would help with things like studying-- BUT, i can tell after taking 10mg dexedrine, this would be GREAT if you have to read a lot of stuff fast, and remember it good, cram for tests, learning in general... The amphetamine also, seems more like, well, methamphetamine, in that it feels like there is more of that dopamine "calmness", and even more focus on what you are doing. My vision is extra crisp and clear also, and colors are enhanced.

I still don't know if the pregnenolone capsule i took days ago is what is potentiating the piracetam, but after a while i'll be able to tell. I dont think pregnenolone is something people should take daily...Once in a long while it does seem to do some kind of 'good', i dunno.

I get this same 'fluidness' effect from MDMA, and... 5-meo-dmt. Not a breakthrough god dose, but a lower dose, things not only feel sorta like this, but 5-meo-dmt at just the right dose almost seems like it may block the left/logical side of the brain, and let more of the creative, multitasking right take over. I am not a 'dancer'. But when I smoke that stuff, i'm one mad crazy guy all over the place, different body parts doing different things with barely any effort. Also it might just be you can mentally choose to block out that stuff, like a couple experiences i had where everything was mostly normal except, i didnt understand english anymore - yet can hear perfectly fine.

Well, i'm not sure if i like it, unless i take a stim with it.. even caffeine seems to work OK.

Interesting stuff.. wierd.. I want to know more!

 

[smartshop]

In a good cactus book it says piracetam was tried and it potentiated the trip to about double intensity, but the intensification of the trip was not uniform; some aspects where intesified more than others.

 

[blase deviant]

I tried it with between 8-12mg of 2c-t-2 (had 10, some blew away through my stupidity, so about 5 minutes later I had another 5mg), and there was some potentiation. I dosed low on piracetam that day though, since I still don't know whether it'd increase damage of free-radicals from pea breakdown since there is more bloodflow to the brain (like the faq says it does with alcohol), or would protect the brain...

Also, would it potentiate valerian root?

I still am not sure if it increases blood flow to the brain or if it actually helps chemicals cross the blood-brain barrier easier. Is that the same thing (I'm guessing not?)? I'm no MD, obviously...

EDIT: As far as pirac. + SSRI, I'm not dead or flopping around like a fish w/ no motor control yet, so I guess it's harmless? The striatum only controls motor control, right?

 

[yaesutom]

Well if it potentiates amphetamines / some psychedelic effects (my 2c-d trip was certainly, uhm, real real good), and alcohol, possibly increasing free radicals/etc, well maybe if taken with a big dose of ALA and other vitamins/etc maybe these would also enter the brain more than normal?

The 2c-d trip, some of the visuals, for some reason, reminded me of the movie Yellow Submarine, like....maybe the DVD menu or something..hehe. They were more.."something". There is that feeling of left/right brain communication going on, like the opposite of a dissociative kinda..!?

I find vinpocetine to have a much bigger effect taken alone, compared to piracetam, both combined would probably be stronger, i'll have to mix those two up before...hmm 2c-d sounds good.. hehe, some day.

 

[yaesutom]

Anyone try with any other 'racetams?

I will be getting some cheap bulk aniracetam soon and i'll see how that compares to piracetam with potentiating or changing psychedelics.



-- I am thinking that a capsule of 30mg "pregnenolone" I took before that 2c-d trip to play more into intensifying it, and also intensifying piracetam when I took that also.

A while back I took one of those pregnenolone's, and late in the day, sucked a couple nitrous balloons with a friend. It was incredible, no words.. It was not like a normal nitrous "trip", the "vision" there when you become one with the universe was still there, i could see it anywhere I looked if i chose to. This lasted a good 10 minutes after the balloon. Also during those minutes, i felt no barrier between me, my body, and the air around me or anything else. Touching or moving something felt more like just some signals sent to my head from my hand, just the feeling or being really conscious of the air between things.

Later on that same night when i got home, I did another balloon because I was so curious. Well coming "out" of the nitrous hole-thingiedo, not knowing who i was yet I actually heard and thought that I, was a different guy, and he (i) was talking to whoever about these..wierd topics, and well, somehow I knew this guy wasn't too smart and what he was (well, i) saying made me think "oh no! Am I this person?? what? no!". I'm wondering now if since the pregnenolone seems to super-boost memory for a good while that my mind wasn't so dissociated from memory or something.. If I come across some ketamine again I definitely would want to take pregnenolone before...

Kinda off the topic of piracetam, but since were talking about 'nootropics', Pregnenolone isn't one to take daily like most of them and its some 'hormone' or..whatever, but, I highly recommend trying that with (take long before) a psychedelic .

 

[yaesutom]

Couple weeks ago or so I found this note on the ground as i was walking and thought it related to this:

2C-E combined with piracetam, potentiation/difference?

There were 5 baggies with 1-4 capsules in each, labeled A-E. The first 3 baggies had all doses of about 14-15mg 2C-E, with either 600mg piracetam, 1200mg, or 2400mg. The last two baggies had each an 8mg dose of 2C-E, with either 600mg or 2400mg piracetam. Baggies were given to 5 human sized rats with human brain implants that can speak, all knowing they were going to get a dose of 2C-E but did not know the dose of piracetam. They said, "fun!", and consumed the contents of their bag.

The 600/15 and 600/8 said nothing too noticeable maybe a very minor effect. Now the one that got 2400/14 said first thing noticed was a visual effect of things "snapping quickly into place" (I know exactly what this is i've experienced it, with 'racetams and tripping), and had a fun good trip - mentioned colors were even more brighter, and clearer headed, and he slept like a baby afterwards. The one with 1200/14 also said he had the same 'snap' visual effect, although didnt say much else about it. I dont think the 14mg trips were potentiated a LOT but hard to tell.

Now, the one that took 2400/8, the next day reported a pretty strong trip. Usually this rat likes a dose of 15-20mg. Not much else said about it, but possibly the lower dose was potentiated more? who knows.

---------

I've been taking piracetam and aniracetam pretty much daily now, because I do notice the big improvement.

I once took 120mg DXM (just a low dose, should have felt it though), with piracetam/aniracetam, and, it didnt do anything! I've also had a ketamine trip that also seemed less intense for the dose from taking these.

%)

 

[antigod]

My current daily nootropics regimen includes:

1470 mg Aniracetam
135 mg Idebenone
200 mg DMAE
20 mg Vinpocetine

Along with nutrients/vitamins:

2000 mg Omega-3
2400 mg Lecithin
500 mg Ester-C
2 ounces of Green Kamut

5 grams L-Arginine at bedtime.
3 mg Melatonin for sleep.

I prefer Aniracetam to Piracetam already. The half-life of Aniracetam is much shorter then Piracetam, so the insomnia is not so troubling. The effect can be compared to a caffeine or mild amphetamine buzz without the comedown, anxiety, or sleeping problems. My attention span has been greatly increased recently.

Yaesutom, if I may ask, what is your complete daily regimen? In the next few weeks, I'll be working on optimizing mine. Amongst the changes, I'm thinking of upping the DMAE, adding some huperzine a and phosphatidyl serine.

 

[yaesutom]

Yaesutom, if I may ask, what is your complete daily regimen? In the next few weeks, I'll be working on optimizing mine. Amongst the changes, I'm thinking of upping the DMAE, adding some huperzine a and phosphatidyl serine.

Well although it varies some every day, this is what i do tend to take pretty much daily -

Piracetam, 1200-1800mg/day.

Aniracetam, well i just filled up a couple capsules to see the actual weight and 2 caps looks like around 750mg or so. Sometimes I take both at once sometimes one then one later.. or two/one, whatever i feel like i guess. I notice the difference from just one capsule which is ~375mg, although usually taken with some piracetam.

L-theanine about 200mg/day.

Now not every day just when i 'feel like it or remember' -

acetyl-l-carnitine ~450mg usually with some ALA ~250-300mg (read they are supposed to be better in combination, probably more of an anti oxidant effect than anything else i'm not sure).

Not often just do not feel the need to.. but I would wake up and take some l-tyrosine sometimes.

Vinpocetine I used to take daily and it worked, now I tend to take it once in a while, probably should go back to taking it daily to see how it is combined with, especially the 'racetams. Used to take anywhere from 10mg-40mg in a day. 30-40mg taken when your not used to taking it, really makes a difference fast.

Once in a LONG while, i'll take a capsule of pregnenolone, which i've read up on and doesn't seem necessarily good to take daily unless its a tiny dose. I have this bottle of 30mg capsules, and one of those, and whoa! It works immediately and the effect lasts days slowly wearing off.

I was taking sam-e for a short while, right away noticed a big difference, especially things like mood/motivation. A good dose for that is more like 800-1600mg, i'd notice the effect within a day or two.

Hmm.. other than that, just the occasional fat multi vitamin.

-------

Yeah I think the piracetam and aniracetam do the most of anything, they allow me to multitask a lot more. I realised how good it really was, when I was talking to a friend, the phone rang, talked to this girl on the phone, listening to her, my friend, and writing something down, all at the same time, and i wasn't "switching" between all three, I really was doing all tasks at the same time, while doing that I also even thought about how cool this was that i'm able to do this with not much effort. If I go a couple days without piracetam/aniracetam, I notice it, I notice words won't come as fast and easy, my brain feels slower, more like being "normal" again i guess.

I'm curious about what the other 'racetams do. All I could find cheap was just the two of them.

 

[infinity]

in case anyone cares, i have taken 2400mg piracetam daily for two months without any effects

i stopped taking them because i couldn't afford to spend that much money on something that might or might not work, and for the most part didn't. there are lots of good supplements out there that i would love to take every day (DMAE, some *cetam*, ALA, hydergine, vinpocetinet, etc.), but i could never afford to take a third of those i'd like to supplement with (which leaves me with fish oil & vitamins )

 

[antigod]

~$4 a day is not particularly expensive. People smoke packs of cigarettes at $5+ daily.

 

[Coolio]

Maybe that's not expensive to you, but it is to most people. I don't even spend as much on food in a few days as you spend on supplements in one day man.

 

[monkeytouch]

I have been taking large doses of powdered piracetam 2 grams 2 or three times a day dissolved in juice or soda and a kinda prefer it to aniractam (I take one 800mg cap per day) because its water soluable and I personally feel it quicker. I feel more ordered, in a better mood kinda like it potentiates well with effexor. I take the anracetam with lethicin and I also take Idebenone every day. I am a heavy pot smoker (not a hippie, not a delivery boy thanks) and it helps with memory loss.

My two cents

 

[blase deviant]

I've been taking 1-4g piracetam per day. Took 2g on a day wiht 35mg amph (normal dose is 70-100 with tolerance, when I started 50-60, but I weighed less then) and a gram of l-tyrosine. It kicked in pretty hard, so I took some l-theanine. I swear the amphetamines lasted like over 36 hours. Way longer than they used to back in the day.

Blah blah, that was a dream. And stuff.

 

[Xorkoth]

You know, I was thinking back to my two 2C-E experiences, and how drastically different they were from one another despite equivalent dosages. For the stronger of the two experiences, I took piracetam (and choline and DMAE) beforehand, and the level of intensity went up orders of magnitude from the first experience. I've also taken piracetam before MDMA which was later followed by a small amount of LSD, and I never had the abrupt drop-off in effects that MDMA usually gives me. I just slowly came down until I was mostly feeling normal, then took the LSD and just coasted until sometime in the early afternoon the next day. At no point was there any kind of discomfort or unpleasant come-down or emotional aftereffects like there usually are with MDMA.

I was just wondering if anyone else has any experience with this. After my 2C-E experience with piracetam, I haven't used it with any other psychedelics because it freaked me out a little. But Erowid has several reports about combinations with psychedelics and piracetam in particular. I have a briefly formulated theory that much of the confusion and lack of clarity that can happen in a trip is due to the brain's inability to deal with the changing stimuli it is receiving, and since piracetam is both neuroprotective and allows an increased rate of communication between the hemispheres of the brain via stimulation of the corpus collosum, I feel that it might reduce this possible confusion, plunging you deeper into the experience. And, its documented neuroprotective qualities could exlain the way that it seems to smooth out strong stimulants like MDMA and (from a report I've read) methamphetamine.

Any thoughts or experiences? I've been thinking about this for awhile and brought it up on another forum, but that forum doesn't really like to talk about psychedelics in particular as much as general brain function and nootropics.

 

[nanobrain]

yyeh, pyrrolidine derivs, esp piracetam are a weird bunch, with a fairly complex mech of action, including changing neuronal membrane fluidity, binding with phospholipids to form complexes of very specific topology, disinhibition of the VC and far greater firing rates across the CC.

thats a brimmin hatful of bioactivity - even if attempts at direct measurement of receptor binding activity have shown little. no wonder the perceived effects in the user include modification of action of a coadministered psychoactive agent - esp if you are also taking a cholinergic phospholipid complex (DMAE)alongside - and a psychedelic ontop.

but then, i find some psychedelics, esp some 2C derivs (2C-D in particular) and some 4-substitued trypts, are indeeed themselves nootropics of an entirely different order of magnitude - in nootropic doses and with all proper disclaimers, of course.

as far as traditional nootropics go, there are a couple noteworthy ones besides of course the ones mentioned elsewhere on this board, so i'l just list my new and improved stack:

piracetam: ~3,000mg morning
l-phenylalanine: 1,000mg morning
caffeine: ~250mg via strong coffee in morning
selegeline: 5mg morning
centrophenoxine: 250mg morning
bromocriptine: 2.5mg morning
GHV (concentrated Gingko, Huperzine, Vinpocetine): 1 cap morning
ALA: 100mg morning
megapotency multivite, magnesium, tissue salts: afternoon
Hydergine: 2.5mg once weekly

now, suffice to say, it is very rare when anything above the Shulgin low dose range is required in re psychedelics for full flight effects, and often, doses 1/4 of the low range more than suffice.