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Phenylpropylaminopentane and the stuffmonger debauchle.

Z

Zara23

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Apr 28, 2011
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Synth question. Poster warned - Jam.
 
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I don't think this is synthesis discussion provided specifics of what and how the stuff was or wasn't made as it seems likely to be a normal degredation product of MDPV freebase.
I don't want to see any methods posted other than that I can't see the problem.

unfortunately the above post contents have been deleted by the mod :-( IMHO it is generally better just to delete the post so it can be resurrected if necessary.

If you want to discuss this stuff feel free provided you abide by the guidance above.
 
I only suggested that to try and explain the effects really. Now that I am more knowledgeable about the chemistry involved in this, I know it.. well becomes other substances in the same "family" (as mdpv). but I don't think I am supposed to talk about that. I was going to list some of the resulting compounds from performing that process but I think providing "specifics of what" would not be allowed. I really don't want to be disruptive, or break the rules or anything like that. This is just really fascinating to me. Would there be any way for either of you mods to change the name of the topic to be more relevant to mdpv degredation?
 
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I don't think talking about a particular set of PV derivatives would normally constitute synth discussion, despite a couple people deciding for themselves that they don't want to get too specific. But maybe it's different since there are hints at process already floating around? I guess I would appreciate clarification here.
 
If it is allowed then, I know that some verified derivatives are alpha-PPP, MOPPP, MDPPP. Also something with an opiate effect like MPPP.

Does anyone have any idea if it is possible that the main active compound in the "tan" is a member of the 2-CB family? They fit the bill because whatever the compound is, is obviously a psychedelic stimulant, dosage range around 1-3 mg. I can't find one that matches though.
 
MPPP the piperidine opioid is not the same as 4'-methyl-PPP the stimulant. And even ignoring the (major) chemical differences I don't think reports about the "good" PV batches bear much resemblance to the effects of the 2C family at all.
 
Okay, i'm just throwing ideas out there :p What about any sort of DOx related compound? It is definitely potent, honestly more psychedelic than stimulating. Mild euphoria.
 
Okay! I think I may have actually figured it out. Given that you said MW 281 Alcyone, I am fairly certain the mysterious substance is Naphyrone. Pyrovalerone analogue, same molecular weight as you said you detected in the oxidized sample. Similar effects as described by people who took it.
 
Zara23 said:
Okay! I think I may have actually figured it out. Given that you said MW 281 Alcyone, I am fairly certain the mysterious substance is Naphyrone. Pyrovalerone analogue, same molecular weight as you said you detected in the oxidized
sample. Similar effects as described by people who took it.
Click to expand...

I can tell you for absolute certain you haven't figured it out, there are lots of molecules with that same molecular weight. there is no concievable way a methylenedioxyphenyl can degrade into a naphthyl moety.

Alcyone's GCMS data suggests some methylenedioxyphenyl ring modification in the oxidised samples, but the mass of the degradation product would require highly novel chemistry I cannot see occurring simply on standing at room temperature. The rest of the molecule appears unchanged.
Other data suggests that it is possible for the pyrrolidine ring to be oxidised.
 
Zara23 said:
Okay! I think I may have actually figured it out. Given that you said MW 281 Alcyone, I am fairly certain the mysterious substance is Naphyrone. Pyrovalerone analogue, same molecular weight as you said you detected in the oxidized sample. Similar effects as described by people who took it.
Click to expand...

Wow your figuerd it out. Though. Thanks!
 
vecktor said:
I can tell you for absolute certain you haven't figured it out, there are lots of molecules with that same molecular weight. there is no concievable way a methylenedioxyphenyl can degrade into a naphthyl moety.

Alcyone's GCMS data suggests some methylenedioxyphenyl ring modification in the oxidised samples, but the mass of the degradation product would require highly novel chemistry I cannot see occurring simply on standing at room temperature. The rest of the molecule appears unchanged.
Other data suggests that it is possible for the pyrrolidine ring to be oxidised.
Click to expand...

The process does not take place at room temperature though, does it? Or does heat not matter so much? Or would discussing that be too specific? I am inclined to trust you on this as you are more knowledgable in this field than me.

Also do you have any idea what the sedative-like substance could be that some have created by modifying the process? I am at a loss.
 
There appears to be confusion between stuff sold as Tan more recently (which quite frankly could be any shit the vendor has lying around) and early MDPV which was tan coloured.
We do know that freebase MDPV degrades at room temperature in air to make a brown colouration and it is possible that the early MDPV batch contained significant amounts of this degradation product, furthermore it is conceivable that the degradation product altered the pharmacology of this early somewhat impure MDPV.

Also to add to the confusion very very little of what has been sold as naphyrone is in fact naphyrone most of it is MDPV or its n-methylamino relative pentylone. (in light of the possible carcinogenic metabolites of naphyrone the vendors misleading the gullable and the stupid in this way probably did the users a favour). Real naphyrone is not active at doses of low double digit mg.

Alcyone's data is for genuine MDPV which has degraded.

I personally think there is something to this impurity, I think it might have interesting pharmacology of its own, but the legal status of MDPV hampers further research. I also guess that there are more than one degradation product, one that seemed very likely was oxidation of the pyrrolidine ring to a pyrrolidinone, the brown discolouration of plain pyrrolidine is due to the formation of pyrrolidinone and then condensation of this to make dimeric and polymeric materials. Alcyone's data does not support this hypothesis.
The opening of the methylenedioxy ring is also a likely degradation route as methylenedioxy rings are unstable, however there seems to be no reason to believe that MDPV alone unlike methylone and MDMA would degrade through MD ring opening.
so it is still a mystery.
 
There were always murmurs many years ago of being careful when doing certain reactions so as to not cleave the methylenedioxy ring when working with MDXX. It never happened in my experience, even under some seriously harsh conditions. It can be done sure, just not under the parameters I've seen mentioned in regards to all this tan crap.
 
"The results don't make sense because they're not at all what I was expecting. I was expecting to see oxidation of the pyrrolidine moiety and possibly hydrolytic cleavage of the resulting lactam, but that's clearly not happening under my reaction conditions. What I'm seeing is a substance with a molecular weight of 281 (that's 6 mass units more than MDPV), and the pyrrolidine and ketone functions are both intact. It appears that there are six hydrogens added to the benzodioxol moiety. That's all I can say for now."
Click to expand...

Not the original post because I don't remember where it was but from the Google cache of this thread.
 
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