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Phenylpropylaminopentane and the stuffmonger debauchle.

sockpuppet said:
Could you elaborate on the subjective effects of this a-pbp and compare it to vaping mdpv? And did you ever vape the "tan" yourself?

Still the most fascinating topic on BL and the quest most likely to destroy my sobriety if the Tan Grail is ever found.....Hopefully y'all will solve this one this year!
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As I said above, I'm pretty sure I've discovered the identity of the grail. I've been following and studying this for YEARS. I've read the monger thread in its entirety multiple times.... once or thrice even before all the editing. I knew as soon as I read it that he was NOT full of shit or a shill. i knew because I had already seen some evidence of the efficacy of his process, prior to seeing the thread. Well prior. i have also picked up on hints here and there, and taken all together it seems to make the most sense.

I have heard that when it was first released, MDPV may have been confused with its FOUR CARBON relative, as someone said

Maybe they mistook the structure of MDPV (i've seen some sources show it as having 4 carbons instead of 5) and prepared this instead?
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That quote is from TheAzo in this post: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/503871-quot-tan-quot-mdpv?p=8395891&viewfull=1#post8395891

I believe I read another person or two make a similar speculation, though i presently can't recall where. i'll try to see if I can find it. I've also read that MDPV is a very reactive chemical. Now, I recently found a thread about a-pbp, which conveniently contained this diagram. Take a look at the differences.

wWRM4.png


I am no chemical genius. Far from it. But would it really be hard to go from the structure in blue to the structure in red? (consider that rhetorical, if it borders on synth discussion. However, please allow me to point out that allegedly this process can happen "accidentally" when attempting to prepare a freebase of MDPV.)

There is NO user-end literature available (that I could find). And believe me I've looked. I have only seen a couple vendors ever even CLAIM to stock this. (Vendors whose legitimacy i could not attest to. Asian ones with suspiciously long product lists...)

Might it be fair to assume MDPBP may share similarities with a-pbp (image on the right in red)? What is a-pbp like? There is little data on that one, either. Let me share what i know about a-pbp. I have spoken to a couple people in the online community who have encountered samples. This is what I've gathered:

There is both a white and a "tan" version making their way around the market. The white version seemed substantially (even suspiciously) similar to white a-pvp. (The person I reference here also claims to have encountered both white and tan a-pvp as well, with the tan version seeming slightly superior). While the white may have seemed hard to tell from a-pvp (mind you, this is a single researcher, with a single exposure to the white a-pbp... which may have even been misrepresented a-pvp) the tan a-pbp seemed like a different animal.

Tan a-pbp was so tan it was almost a light brown. Like brown sugar. The texture was similar as well. Grainy. Very very dense. 100mg was a disturbingly small amount. Eyeballing the material could be very very risky, especially if one were accustomed to "fluffier" stuff like MDPV or pentylone. Insufflated there is a bit of sting, and one person found that amounts in the range of 5mg showed activity. Maybe active with less. Cumulative effect that builds quickly. Pro sexual.

When combined with soda and water a fizzing was VERY pronounced. The freebase is an oil that is yellowish in color. Depending on how the base is prepared, it can take on a range of colors.... sound familiar? The colors seemed to range from a lighter yellow, to a darker yellow, to something that could become brown or reddish (I believe the darker brown/red is an oxidation product, and at this point I wouldn't be reluctant to guess it may be something else altogether at that point. (I know stuffmonger mentions browns and reds in his thread)

Vapor is harsh on the lungs. Highly pro-sexual. At first there is that almost paradoxical... feels-like-you-took-an-opiate-and-a-nootropic, clear and stimulated yet relaxed state. All my sources reported that if carried on too long, the calm dissolves leaving frantic stimulation and possibly panic, if taken too far. One source speculated this was due to preparation of the base as she went along (ie, she got too messed up to prepare it properly, or was in too much of a hurry, and accidentally left unconverted HCl in the stuff) it seems much edgier without being freebased. Oh, and the base has the signature smell. You know the one.... it is not the same, to be exact. But close enough to fool some humans.

That is the gist of the info I got on a-pbp. Both primary sources said it blew a-pvp out of the water. If that is the case, all things considered... might MDPBP be the true identity of "The Grail?" And for those who seek the grail... please be safe. Nothing is worth your life. Oh, those are the other important bits... I mentioned the harshness on the lungs. Sources did also mention feeling short of breath or congested for a while after. Also, both had harsh (emotionally, psychologically) comedowns, that seemed mostly short, but particularly brutal. One reported comedown was long and drawn out. Oddly, though, both reported that their "freakout" episodes culminated in what felt like epiphanies. One had an "afterglow" lasting into the next day or two, and a shifted perspective on life (for the positive) that she claims still persists.

That last part does seem a bit odd. Perhaps odder when you consider that a certain famous and reputable island chemical company lists a-pbp as being an "ANTI-psychotic" on their site's catalog.

I hope this was clear enough. Trying to piece together A LOT of info from different sources into something coherent.
 
As far as I can tell, MDPBP is not what you guys are looking for. MDPBP just seems like a weaker form of MDPV (as would be expected between MDPPP and MDPV in strength). Was vaped and tasted much like MDPV (both in powder form and vaporized, yum...safroley!), much weaker rush than a-PVP and MDPV. Lacked much of the paranoia and madness thankfully, but this could just be due to weaker strength and less of it being consumed. Nothing too special overall, sorry.
 
Big thanks to Sekio for rescuing and resurrecting my last post, which was MIA due to my tripping a spam filter. Whoops.

drdoctor said:
As far as I can tell, MDPBP is not what you guys are looking for. MDPBP just seems like a weaker form of MDPV (as would be expected between MDPPP and MDPV in strength). Was vaped and tasted much like MDPV (both in powder form and vaporized, yum...safroley!), much weaker rush than a-PVP and MDPV. Lacked much of the paranoia and madness thankfully, but this could just be due to weaker strength and less of it being consumed. Nothing too special overall, sorry.
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MDPBP has made its way to the commercial scene, and PRELIMINARY reports seem to agree with what you've just told me. But something seems.... off....

You mention "vaporized" but I wonder if this was the HCl or the freebase. IMO this makes a huge difference when dealing with MDPV and a-pvp, and with a-pbp vaporization of the base is WHOLLY different than vaporization of the HCl. Vaping a-pbp HCl is a considerably more "mild".... less stimmy, less euphoric, less moreish...less everything, really, as opposed to vaporization of freebase a-pbp, which is quite similar to a-pvp or MDPV in this way.

So was it the base?

Also, if you've encountered this material, can you describe its physical properties? Color, texture, etc?
 
The material came as a very fine bright white powder. Had a very faint "candy/root-beer like/floral odor" that became stronger upon heating. This smell always reminds me of sass oil/safrole, and has been noted by me in some batches of MDPV,MDPPP,MDMA,MDA and especially early (pre-web tryp) batches of Methylone. If you've noticed it as well you probably know what I'm talking about. The powder was presumed to be the HCl, but this was not specified.

The "salt" was heated carefully on foil ("vaporized", hope that helps) and melted while the vapor was inhaled. The powder turned into a light beige liquid which quickly reddened and blackened if heat was continued. This produced only a mild buzz most notable for a sense of tenseness and mild anxiety, not very pleasant. The remainder was converted to the freebase, mostly on a per dose basis, via sodium bicarbonate and water or IpOH (created that pyrrolidine smell, ugh). The freebase produced a stronger and more enjoyable rush and high than the salt, and tasted very similar to freebase MDPV. However, the effect was not near the rush/stimulation/ or occasional euporia produced by MDPV, and required larger doses, although not as large as MDPPP.

Having had extensive experience with MDPV (including the "tan" from many years ago), MDPPP, PVP, and PBP, I'm pretty comfortable with the belief that this substance was indeed MDPBP. I wish could confirm your hopes that this was the unidentified "mystery" in the tan, but this was not my experience. I'm not quite sure what you meant by "....off....", but please let me know if I can provide any other information.
 
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iwilliam said:
[...]But would it really be hard to go from the structure in blue to the structure in red? (consider that rhetorical, if it borders on synth discussion. However, please allow me to point out that allegedly this process can happen "accidentally" when attempting to prepare a freebase of MDPV.)
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Yes, it certainly is hard (impossible!) to extend a saturated chain in the way you suggest. There just is no synth to discuss here.

iwilliam said:
When combined with soda and water a fizzing was VERY pronounced.
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Unaccurately neutralized freebase can certainly make carbonate fizzing. A salt is likely to do that too, depending on the ratio and temperature. So that doesn't prove anything either way.

Don't have any input besides basic chemistry or know anything specific about the topic here but it sounds like it comes down to a drug identification thread and all its consequences: nobody can tell anything definite.
 
drdoctor said:
The material came as a very fine bright white powder. Had a very faint "candy/root-beer like/floral odor" that became stronger upon heating. This smell always reminds me of sass oil/safrole, and has been noted by me in some batches of MDPV,MDPPP,MDMA,MDA and especially early (pre-web tryp) batches of Methylone. If you've noticed it as well you probably know what I'm talking about. The powder was presumed to be the HCl, but this was not specified.

The "salt" was heated carefully on foil ("vaporized", hope that helps) and melted while the vapor was inhaled. The powder turned into a light beige liquid which quickly reddened and blackened if heat was continued. This produced only a mild buzz most notable for a sense of tenseness and mild anxiety, not very pleasant. The remainder was converted to the freebase, mostly on a per dose basis, via sodium bicarbonate and water or IpOH (created that pyrrolidine smell, ugh). The freebase produced a stronger and more enjoyable rush and high than the salt, and tasted very similar to freebase MDPV. However, the effect was not near the rush/stimulation/ or occasional euporia produced by MDPV, and required larger doses, although not as large as MDPPP.

Having had extensive experience with MDPV (including the "tan" from many years ago), MDPPP, PVP, and PBP, I'm pretty comfortable with the belief that this substance was indeed MDPBP. I wish could confirm your hopes that this was the unidentified "mystery" in the tan, but this was not my experience. I'm not quite sure what you meant by "....off....", but please let me know if I can provide any other information.
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Thank you for your response. This aligns closely with what I've expected, save the color of the material. Yes, I know all the odors you described. a-pbp salt vs freebase behaves similarly in vapor experiments to how you describe. You say "I'm pretty comfortable with the belief that this substance was indeed MDPBP" and I don't really doubt you, based on your account of how the substance behaves. However, I will note (and you should agree with your extensive experience) that some chems in this family can act VERY similarly to this one. And if the list you gave is a complete one, there are a few in the family on the commercial market you have not yet worked with.

My knowledge is most extensive with MDPV, a-pbp, pentylone (only vaguely related, and not a pyrrolidine, I know) a-pvp, and MDPPP. I've seen a-pvp and a-pbp that seemed of reasonable purity, appear in different shades with differing effects. Call me crazy (and you might be right to) but part of me suspects that there is a TAN VERSION of your MDPBP floating around out there.

Other completely wild and less likely speculations, are that the mystery chem might have be A DIFFERENT a-PBP relaltive. I believe there is an "meo" version about to hit the market, and I think an "oxo"...but don't quote me on that.



@SA23: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the chain in red SHORTER than the blue? I thought I was talking about accidental shortening of the chain, not lengthening. Also, I don't recall if I said that fizzing proved anything, per se. Just being descriptive of characteristics.
 
iwilliam said:
@SA23: Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the chain in red SHORTER than the blue? I thought I was talking about accidental shortening of the chain, not lengthening. Also, I don't recall if I said that fizzing proved anything, per se. Just being descriptive of characteristics.
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Oh wow, I sincerly apologize for not reading attentively and missing that :) You put a lot of effort into your posts, so I see how unnerving my post is for you.

But I still think that an aliphatic side chain is the least reactive place of these substances. I believe that any such process that is harsh enough to get at aliphatics would form other byproducts faster and therefore yield a mixture of mostly (entirely?) unwanted substances. I admit, this is only theory but I'd be very surprised if such a conversion is preparatively feasible.
 
No harm done.

If you think the side chain would be theoretically the "least reactive" place on the molecule, which would you consider the "most reactive?" Just curious....
 
The pyrrolidine nitrogen & the keto =O are what I would consider to be the "weak links".
 
I wish this debate about "the" tan could be put to bed with a definitive answer. PLEASE if someone has some of the old tan, get it tested!!!
 
Is this the only thread on here on PPAP which became widely available by the way...


Let me tell you it it some STRANGE stuff especially when IMed after playing with dopamine stimulants :) things got weird
 
Yoyoman, I was just discussing PPAP with someone recently elsewhere. Now what can you tell me about its actual in vivo effects. Weird?

This is a fascinating drug on the surface, as is BPAP, the benzofuranyl analog. The way these act is unique, in that they increase the amount of neurotransmitter released when an action potential (monoaminergic) is already being fired off, but do not directly induce neurotransmitter release or act as reuptake inhibitors.

DO tell me, tell me telle meletellmetammittellme! this is a compound I REALLY want to know about.

What happens with DARIs, releasing agents like amphetamines, and direct (orthosteric) dopamine agonists like say, pramipexole or piribedil, or the ergolines?
 
Just took 1100mg PPAP orally, along with 150mg bupropion. I've heard elsewhere that BPAP is more potent. Haven't seen it anywhere, though. It sound like PPAP should be like methylphenidate except it needs priming. We'll see.
 
I came to the conclusion that tan and white MDVP had identical effects, the whole conversion story was a strange prank by McAfee. (Yes that John McAfee!)
 
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