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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards

Phenibut

joshpills

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
6
hi there, I'm new to this forum so sorry if this is in the wrong place. i apologise if it is long, but id imagine this is a question/ theory many people won't have heard before

i want to discuss phenibut. i know phenibut is a form of gaba that has an extra phenyl ring bonded to it, allowing it to cross the blood brain barrier.

i went to a natural doctor with general anxiety all the time and over-stimulation. I'm always hyped up, can't relax etc.

he did a urine neurotransmitter test, the results showed low gaba levels, and high adrenaline levels. i went to the doctors after this, they did tests and said i has no medical reasons for this, no tumours etc. i know urine neurotransmitter tests aren't accepted as accurate by some, but the results matched my symptoms very well, i did 2 more urines neurotransmitter tests under different names, and they all came back the same, with the low gaba and high adrenaline. so i do believe they are accurate.

i have been put on amino acids and herbs to gradually replenish my levels. however it'll obviously take a fair amount of time, but i want to properly balance myself out and return to normal, not be drug dependant forever.

now i know a lot of people take phenibut for my issues, and they say it is very very good and can relief anxiety and over-stimulation completely. but a quick tolerance develops. however, i think i know why. we are dosing far far far too high. most people want instant relief. they want their symptoms to be fully gone within hours of taking the pills, so this is why doses of 500mg-2 grams are advised. this delivers a huge amount of gaba to the brain, shutting down all anxiety. but obviously tolerance develops.

in my opinion I'm not surprised. now i don't know how much gaba a healthy brain will make, but i know for sure it is nowhere near 2 grams. or even 500mg. by overloading your brain with gaba, it will obviously down regulate receptors to compensate.

id guess the brain makes a fraction of this amount of gaba per day in healthy individuals with no anxiety. id love to know the exact amounts, but lets says the brain only makes about 20-30mg of gaba per day. anything more will cause down regulation, tolerance, withdrawals, and also stop natural gaba production because the brain is fooled into thinking the body has adequate gaba.

naturally restoring gaba levels is tricky, because once gaba is low, adrenaline becomes very high as there is nothing to counter it. now every time gaba is made, it is instantly used to try bring down the high adrenaline, so it isn't allowed to accumulate and replenish. so what i was thinking is. if i provide myself a very very low dose of phenibut daily, say 20mg-30mg, this will simply just replace what gaba is missing, maybe even provide a little boost in gaba but still leave me somewhat deficient. this way, the adrenaline can be calmed down slightly, to allow gaba to naturally start replenishing and accumulating, but at the same time, the receptors won't be overwhelmed by huge amounts of gaba and down regulate, it'll lead to no tolerance, and no withdrawals, even when taken daily.


most people would never dose this low, because you are likely to not even feel its effects, well not at first anyway. people want instant relief of symptoms, not to actually cure themselves.

for example 2 grams of phenibut lets say lowers adrenaline by 70% after one dose, this causes huge reductions in anxiety, but the huge amount of gaba the receptors are given makes them down regulate and this leads to all the negatives and means it can't be taken daily, it also completely stops natural gaba production because the brain thinks it has enough.

however, the tiny 30mg dose maybe only lowers adrenaline by 1% at a time. so 1 % a day. this will likely not even be felt at all. people will be unsatisfied and say it is a waste of time. but, after 10 days your adrenaline will be 10% lower, still maybe not enough to have less anxiety, but you're making a dent. after 20 days its 20% lower and after 30 days you have 30% less adrenaline. you may now be feeling a reduction in anxiety. after 2 months, your adrenaline would be 60% lower, this is when you would see huge improvements in anxiety. but, at the same time, it is sustainable, your brain receptors are only receiving a normal healthy amount of gaba that it should be receiving from a healthy brain, so receptors do not down regulate, just like they never down regulate in any normal person with no anxiety who produces all the gaba he needs himself.

along side this low dose phenibut, you are supplementing all the amino acid building blocks for natural gaba production ( l glutamine, taurine, theanine, vitamin b6, zinc, magnesium etc) so your natural gaba levels are replenishing and accumulating, while not being used up from the constant demands of high adrenaline, because the phenibut is taking the workload.

over time, your gaba levels will build up back to normal, it is then that you can discontinue the phenibut supplement, and your body has huge stores of natural gaba it can use to counter stress. basically, your brain chemistry is back rebalanced and you are cured.


i was just wondering what peoples opinions were on this?

would you likely develop tolerance to phenibut with tiny tiny doses of 20-30mg a day ( usual dose is 500mg-2000mg). or should you be fine?


this is similar to the kalish method for fixing adrenal fatigue. you supplement tiny tiny amounts of rhea and cortisol, basically replacing what the body is missing but not going over, then over time as your body balances you discontinue the supplements are you're back to functioning on your own.


thanks for reading, i know it was a long post but i think this is a question you likely won't have heard before.
 
Phenibut is pretty hit and miss. For example I took a pretty solid dose when I first got some and felt pretty good about two or three hours afterwards...I remember sitting in a hot tub and just thinking yeaaah, this is nice. But the real benefit of it came when I woke up the next day...I felt really good all the following day, it was nice. Unfortunately despite subsequent doses of the drug, I was never really able to replicate the good feels of my first run with it. Some people don't really seem to respond to it at all, but then again others swear by it...it's one of those drugs which is hard to say if you'll get anything out of it.
 
what dose did you take?

id imagine you took something in the 500mg-2000mg range? with this dose, I'm not surprised you could never get that good feeling again, because all your receptors down regulated, meaning you'll need a much high dose. this is why i proposed a really really low dose, something you'd not initially feel working, but would work over time, and would cause tolerance and down regulation.

id imagine those who don't get anything from it, are people who already have adequate gaba levels. i don't, i definitely have low gaba levels, because i got tested. this is why ssris won't work for some people. because they act on the serotonin system,those with good levels of serotonin won't feel any effects.


people think just because they feel low or have anxiety that their gaba will be low, this isn't the case, anxiety and low mood can be caused by many things, such as long testosterone, low magnesium, low pea levels, all these people wont get a good affect from phenibut


i think i will, due to my proven low gaba levels



id imagine if you had a few months off the phenibut, and took that dose again that you took to start with, then you'd get the good feeling again, once your receptors unregulated again. but again it'd build tolerance fast. its not sustainable and isn't a cure, it just fixes symptoms
 
I took a gram.

I'm not sure if I have GABA issues or not...I've been prescribed GABAergic drugs (Xanax and Ambien, to be specific) and I enjoy anxiolytic drugs but I don't think my anxiety is that bad compared to a lot of other people.
 
yes a gram will build tolerance rather quickly. thats providing more gaba than you'd ever get naturally.

i want to just replace the amount of gaba i should be releasing, which will be a fraction of this. ill try look and find out how much gaba the healthy brain makes per day.

thanks for your input
 
I found phenibut to be helpful when coming off benzos this past week. I had to get clean for my probation and I found 500-700mgs helpful in relaxing.

I've taken up to 1-1.3grams for sleep but last time I did so, I ended up feeling like I was 'falling' before I actually fell asleep (I believe I was going into REM before I actually fell asleep). That really sucked.

Just my experience with it so far.

-dp
 
thanks for your input

does anyone have an idea on my theory that very small doses of say 30mg will provide relief over time, while avoiding the side effects like tolerance, receptor down regulation and withdrawal?

like i said in my post, does one big dose lower adrenaline and stress hormones by a huge amount, e.g. 2 grams will instantly lower adrenaline 70% but small doses of 30mg will have an accumulative effect, maybe lowering adrenaline 1% per day, so after 2 months it'll have lowered it 60% but gradually?

while avoiding huge doses that lead to down regulation?
 
I wouldn't know honestly. I think the only way to test it is to either a) find someone whose tried this before, or b) try it for yourself.

For those of us who are hard headed, sometimes we need to try things for ourselves anyway before we believe it. In this case I think it's safe to say you'd not be hurt in the effects of attempting to do this, so be as hard headed as you want. Go for it, and make sure you share your findings. Don't let someone else find the place you have gotten without an answer - share whatever you learn.

-dp
 
It's an interesting scenario. Again, tolerance builds very quickly, so are your 30mg daily doses going to provide any relief over time? Not too sure that I'm talking any sense.
I take phenibut once a week, normally on a Thursday evening before bed. I've done this every week for about 3 years now, and I enjoy it.

Why don't you try your experiment, keep a post open about it and let us know.
 
I don't think taking small doses of Phenibut (20-30mgs) a day would do anything beneficial for you besides you'd be putting a chemical in your body that isn't really doing much of anything. Phenibut is good to use on occasion. For instance I have some in my supplement cabinet but I don't take it everyday or every night just on days or nights when I think to myself "Oh yeah, I got some phenibut, i haven't done that in awhile - i think ill do some today/tonight and chill..." But I will admit I did let a good friend try some one day when I first got some long ago and ever sense he tried it he says it helps with his "ADD ADHD" or whatever the hell you wanna call that made up nonsense of a "disorder." lol but it did help him he said and got him to stop taking that god-forsaken shit called adderall.. oh god that shit just gives me a headache and stomach just thinking about it lol. :D
 
thanks for your replies. my thinking is this.

prelonged stress uses too much gaba, gaba is used to neutralise high adrenaline from the stress. i know this can be cured naturally. because i used to have depression, anxiety, poor erections and sexual function, and low energy

i got a neurotransmitter test and found my dopamine, serotonin, gaba, glutamate and acetycholine were all low, and was put on natural therapies, herbs and amino acids to balance me. since then i have seen a lift in the depression, good erections, and boost in energy. i got a resets and my dopamine, serotonin and acetycholine had returned to normal. but gaba remained low.

i think the reason my gaba stayed low is, i never stopped the anxiety, so the adrenaline never went down, so the gaba never had a chance to replenish itself, any that was made was used immediately to try bring down the adrenaline.

i now know i must stop this adrenaline release, i was told all along stress would stop my progress, but i can't not stress!

this is why i wanted to use phenibut. phenibut basically is gaba, but that can cross the blood brain barrier.when my plan was, was to supplement the gaba, which will bring down my adrenaline. and i would continue the natural gaba amino acids and precursors to boost my gaba production. the lowered adrenaline from the phenibut would allow my gaba to accumulate and replenish, at this time i could stop the phenibut and my natural gaba is restored and able to calm me naturally.

however, people look for instant relief and take big doses like 1 gram. but the body only makes a small amount of gaba per day. this huge dose will down regulate receptors, this is the tolerance!

so taking it at low doses, similar to what the brain would naturally release if its stores were high, should theoretically produce no tolerance.

people saying it won't be effective, i believe it won't be affective instantly, like huge doses, because huge doses lower adrenaline dramatically. but the body doesn't naturally do that. it takes time to slowly lower adrenaline back to normal levels after a period of prolonged stress, I'm not looking for instant relief, I'm looking for gradual daily/ weekly improvements. as the adrenaline gets lower and lower each day, eventually lowering it back to normal.


im not looking to remove the symptoms, I'm looking for a cure. to balance my bodies chemicals.

this is possible.

many people don't realise this, they believe doctors, who are told information by pharma companies that drugs are needed forever, this is to make money for the big pharma companies. doctors never heal diseases, they just deal with symptoms, ignoring underlying causes.

i want to heal myself, not provide instant temporary relief.
 
Hi. Your theory is very interesting. I also agree with your philosophy on self healing. I have been taking for a couple of weeks pretty much daily all under 1g. The dose you were talking about May work. My hope is that the amount I'm taking now, Will not increase tolerance. I know I will need to back off the dosage to achieve that.my self stated goal is to not go over 1 g a day. I have seen a small number of successful storiesof people using similar dosing strategies who claim to have not increased tolerance. It definitely has been a godsend for me.I quit taking Adderall 2 1/2 years ago and know of the neurotoxicity of it in hindsight. Phenibut on the other hand, is beneficial neurologically if used responsibly according to the literature and studies out there. I am not taking it to get high and the vast majority of love people having problems with it are ones that are taking far too much and too short a time. I'm hoping to find a way to therapeutically use substance and any success stories out there would be great to hear about it. Please keep this thread updated with your progress or lack thereof and good luck.
 
on a small side note

has anyone noticed a change in their ejaculation control while taking phenibut.

when all this started with anxiety and over stimulation, i began ejaculation faster, everything seems over sensitive.

I'm thinking phenibut may help
 
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