Misc phenibut hell

[OcCo]

Hi people haven't used bluelight in a while, due to entering a drug treatment center for opiate addiction and staying away for a while from anything, but about last November I started using phenibut starting with the suggested doses.

overtime I have come to the point were 100g lasts me a week, sometimes a day less, sometimes a day more due to the eyeballing of doses, only recently have I purchased scales due to only being able obtain baclofen in powder form.

I tried various doses of baclofen eventually styling around 3x90mg per day I took this for a week which kept away the severe anxiety but the underlying depression from phenibut withdrawals remains. I'm wondering whether this is due to me taking it in such a high dose it supposedly releases dopamine, could the depression be due to down regulation of my dopamine receptors.

This week I have went to 5g doses of phenibut and am gonna reduce from there does anyone know of anything that may help, I have abused etizolam and pyrazolam so neither of these help, also the anxiety isn't the problem it's the depersonilazation and apathy that is bothering me, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

 

[belfort]

damn, 100 grams of phenibut in a week!?!?

neurontin will basically wipe away 90% of phenibut withdrawals...only problem i see is you seem to like taking any and all drugs and neurontin gives a high for a short while..i dont know what else to suggest...

 

[OcCo]

I've been coping on 5grams a day for the past few days not much anxiety compared to cold turkey but left feeling like I can't be bothered doing anything. I know 100 grams is more than extreme the tollerance with this stuff is abhorrent nearly as bad as my stupidity. Have thought of asking my Dr for pregabalin but he's not back till November, the baclofen helped with a lot of symptoms normally in withdrawals I cannot eat at all or sleep but it did nothing for my motivation and depression.

 

[Toz]

All these GABAergic withdrawals and those from neurontin/pregabalin are far worse than opiate withdrawals because they never fucking end. These drugs should never be used more than a week or two if used at all for opiate withdrawal in my oppinion. Otherwise you are just digging yourself an even deeper hole.

I don't really know anything about phenibut but I can guess it's the same shit as with every other gabaergic withdrawal, anhedonia that can last seemingly forever. I'm pretty sure your withdrawal has nothing to do with dopamine.

Baclofen / GHB / Alcohol should be your best bet to ease withdrawal if you don't have any more phenibut

 

[belfort]

Ghb would last such a short time that it would be almost pointless to take for withdrawals..

what were you taking phenibut for?phenibut doesnt really get me high, it just loosens me up a little and gives a slight mood boost..

the anhedonia and apathy from opiate and benzo withdrawal is hellish..that is the biggest negative effect i get from withdrawals and it does seem to last forever..

 

[Bahamut]

You should try to get your hands on some Gabapentin and take staggered doses, like 150mgs every 45 minutes until your withdrawals ease up. I find them to substitute very well for each other. Those are some pretty high doses of phenibut you are using, a hundred grams usually lasts me a few months. I feel for you man the withdrawls from a habit like that sound horrendous. If you still have more phenibut you should try to keep lowering your doses so it wont be so shitty.

Take care of yourself.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Looks like you got yourself into a pretty deep hole. I suggest maybe tapering your dose down and purchasing a small amount of etizolam for when things get rough but i also know recomending more gaba-ergics to someone currently trying to get off isn't always the best and thats why i recommend only a small amount of etiz. Maybe get 30 or so and treat it like a 30 script of xanax 1mg, thats what I do. The thing with phenibut is 1 day you need 1 gram and a week later you need 5...it's really a tricky drug that's why i choose not to take it daily.

Baclofen and phenibut have a very similar pharmacological profile so i doubt switching to baclofen is doing anything but extending withdrawals but then again the tolerance curve is relatively a lot less steep with baclofen which can be a good thing. I really wish i had more to offer in terms of help, I'm sympathetic of the entire situation your in and never wish to be in the same position. Although i must add when used correctly phenibut is an amazing drug for anxiety. The duration of effects is what intrigues me the most. A dose leaves me anxiety free all day, truely makes me feel like i broke the chains that anxiety holds me to. Good luck man, keep trying... Don't give in the that salty powder, with the right mentality you can get through this. As a phenibut user im interested in what the withdrawals are lile coming from someone with a habit of yours, please list the symptoms you experience going cold turkey...phenibut addiction has always sort of intrigued me to an extent and im sure Dopemegently is curious as well as he's in a similar situation although i think maybe less serious than yours.

 

[dopemegently]

Hi thanks for starting the thread OcCo, it's a problem I have as well. I use up to 30 grams a week in 3-4 day cycles, and I just can't afford to let this get out of control. (Tolerance is building rapidly; last night I took slightly less and felt terrible.

I'm personally starting a detox tomorrow using etizolam for 5 days on a taper, although this obviously isn't a good solution for you. (I'll let you know how the detox goes though).

I'll keep in touch through pm (I'm researching ways out of this problem; etizolam seems the right way for me, but I'm sure there are others).

Edit: it could be tricky getting help from a doc for phenibut, it's almost unheard of over here; my doctor was completely clueless when I brought it up. Do you take it every single day btw?

 

[OcCo]

I started off using it for anxiety as most do then it continued from there, I can acquire more that's not really the problem it is more that since using the stuff it's only since using the baclofen how I've noticed the choices I've been making while under their the influence of this crap are stupid it has killed the anxiety but killed my personality I found myself doing things I would never do or at least feel extreme guilt for, my own stupidity has led me this way.

@captain kratom
It's kind to hard to explain mate I've been through opiate and benzo withdrawal but this is is completely different no better no worse, I have never let it get past 2 or 3 days and have always have had pyrazolam at hand, all I can say is it leaves one with complete apathy towards everything, no feelings towards anything, left completely not wanting to do anything the feeling is very hard to describe every detached from oneself and stuck in limbo sort of with the odd 2 minutes of light 1 which is quickly extinguished, I'm sure without the pyrazolam I'd be suffering severe anxiety but this has been greatly reduced.

The main worry is that as many people whom have been in the so called 'recovery' community is that I can't affords to spend a week or so in bed or 'out of action' or people start asking questions, all I'd say to anyone who is taking this stuff daily is be careful and make sure your not a fool like me tolerance with this stuff is ridiculous and it can easily spiral.

 

[dopemegently]

On the plus side, I've heard the withdrawals last no more than a week-thank christ it hopefully be a six month slog ie benzos. Did the pyrazolam help your symptoms?

Edit: are you still in the recovery community btw? I did my detox approx a year a go but have stopped going to the meetings.

 

[sekio]

can say is it leaves one with complete apathy towards everything, no feelings towards anything, left completely not wanting to do anything the feeling is very hard to describe every detached from oneself

Attempting to re-immerse yourself in the world by going and doing something you like for a while (baking, play a sport, a board game, arts and crafts... something non-computer related and not iPhone games.) is a good way to re-"associate" with your body. Push the strange feelings aside, focus on the moment, and let yourself decompress for a while.

This kind of stuff - depersonalization/derealization - is a negative feedback loop. You feel hollow and like you can't enjoy anything, so you sit around doing nothing. Which, of course, makes you feel bored and spaced out, so you get more dissociated, etc. Anxiety can also contribute by raising cortisol, adrenaline, norepinephrine levels. You need to break the loop by getting the brain circuitry involved in active movement and planning restarted again, and the best way to do that is by using it.

I'm wondering whether this is due to me taking it in such a high dose it supposedly releases dopamine, could the depression be due to down regulation of my dopamine receptors.

More likely it is a consequence the lifestyle choices you made. If you're on tons of phenibut all the time, you're probably not being very active. Phenibut doesn't release dopamine directly, only indirectly, so I doubt it would have resulted in downregulation like, say, multi-gram-per-day meth
usage would.

Also, aside from sharing some effects, benzos like etizolam, pyrazolam etc (GABA-A positive modulators), gabapentin/pregabalin (voltage gated calcium channel agonists), and phenibut/baclofen/GHB (GABA-B agonists) are three separate classes of drugs, that are not necessarily cross-tolerant with each other!

TL;DR: Stay active, maybe take up a new hobby, or restart an old one, continue to taper down to zero (at your own pace), and you will begin to feel better.

 

[His Name Is Frank]

Good god, man! How in the world do you work up to 100 grams a week?! That is an insane amount of Phenibut. I hope you never take it again after you finally kick it. And you will kick it.

 

[dopemegently]

The tolerance this stuff builds to so rapidly is amazing; I've never heard of a drug doing this so rapidly. 20 grams a month will turn into a hundred, and from there, who knows....the real insecurity of phenibut abuse is so little is known about the drug.

 

[velmwend]

I wonder whether a picamilon regime will help you while you taper from Phenibut? Worth looking at...

 

[OcCo]

Thanks for the responses, I was looking into picamilon most people seemed to think it was pretty useless have you tried it?

One of the main side effects I've noticed from such high doses is my stomach always feels bloated, and everytime I go the toilet it is diahorea even undigested foods not surprising it upsets the stomach considering its acid.

Also despite me being the heaviest weight I've ever been my face is not so much as gaunt as with stimulant use, I look healthy but I have always had full chubby like cheeks since taking phenibut this has totally changed as said before I look healthy but if I tense my jaw I do look gaunt.

 

[belfort]

dopemegently-i disagree about phenibut tolerance..i still take around the same amount as when i started last summer..2 grams is a nice functional dose, if i want to party then 4-5 grams really loosens me up..im not sure why others build tolerance so quickly..then again i have never experienced a 'high' from phenibut, its its own unique feeling..

i only know 1 guy that was dosing 10 grams daily for months and at the end he couldnt sleep no matter what he tried..he had to quit phenibut and he tapered off best he could but he said he felt like shit for about a month..not hardcore withdrawals but just apathy, depression, low energy etc etc..

 

[OcCo]

I think tollerance builds with those susceptible to drugs, as I looked to chase the feeling I had previous taking it saying that any gaba or opiate drug I have always had a problem with they rid me of every bit of of angst I feel, I can sit with friends and snort a few lines of cocaine from an ounce on the table then stop were as they won't till it's completely gone. Everyone is different, I apologize if this sounds like I'm defending my addiction to phenibut, I have struggled with anxiety from an early age and downers counteracts this, phenibut tollerance has been noticed far more than benzo tollerance and ask anyone who takes benzos daily for months how their tollerance has increased?

 

[psood0nym]

Phenibut is the only drug I've ever felt withdrawals from, and that was because I didn't realize how quickly even just using 2g every other day for a couple weeks capped off with three days straight of 3g+ could lead to substantial withdrawal symptoms. I quit the day after that, was fine that night, then didn't sleep the next, and for only three hours the night after that, with it ending in vague depressive symptoms for a week. I won't take it more than twice a week now, max. I think the ideal way to taper off in you situation is to take sekio's advice and switch back and forth between similar drugs (GABA-A positive modulators; voltage gated calcium channel agonists), with maybe one or two half-doses or less of phenibut placed a few days apart within an overall regiment that has you reducing day to day from ALL drugs in a step-wise fashion until you're down to nothing (use a calendar and stick to it). Expect to feel not quite up to your baseline for a week or longer after that and don't take recreational doses of anything remotely related. OTC diphenhydramine can help with sleep. I also agree with the exercise suggestion. During my withdrawals I'd start feeling pretty good after about a half-hour of intense handball at the gym. Staying busy outside does wonders itself.

 

[brutus]

I was going through 50g a week, so I never reached your level of abuse. I quit for a good 2 months then I started back. I'm not going to post how I quit because it's not exactly the safest thing to do, but anyone can PM me if they are that interested. It still amazes me that this shit is legal.

I suggest using benzos or alcohol. You know a drug is bad when benzos/alcohol is recommended to quit taking it.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

I'm aware of the general opinion of people on Seroquel here, but it seems it is biased towards the large doses scripted for mental illness other than simple insomnia/anxiety.

Taking 25mg of generic (cheap as all hell) seroquel over my benzos when I performed a taper (i'm not out of taking benzos everyday yet, but I managed to drop the dose by 66%, thanks to valium) and also seroquel. Of course do not take it if you have diabetes and things like that. But at 25mg, there's this site called thelastpsychiatrist and the guys analyzes the binding effects of low dose seroquel and was really mad at big pharma for giving it an indication where it acts as just as very expensive "super benadryl" at 25-50mg.

Oh it won't put anyone back into normality overnight. But if one can afford it, a vacation of the body and mind using it (this shit at 25mg will make most sleep, but do not take it without some GABAergic...sure you'll sleep, but it's gonna be very uncomfortable anyway)...well it's what I learned for myself (sleep paralysis isn't fun, but that might have been seroquel + methadone doing that) but yeah, tapering a GABAergic too fast is bad, not tapering is even worse, I think this stuff is a good compromise if one wants to ignore more gabaergics while doing a taper, and it helps enduring the horrible daytime side effects by touching serotonin slightly at those levels, but not dopamine...only does start doing that at around 200mg...the kind of dosage I think nobody should be taking.