• 🇬🇧󠁿 🇸🇪 🇿🇦 🇮🇪 🇬🇭 🇩🇪 🇪🇺
    European & African
    Drug Discussion

    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Phase I Clinical Trial Disaster

I have rudimentary knowledge of enzyme inhibitors and even that would tell me to stay clear of this kind of drug trial. Not that it's the fault of the patients. It just goes to show you that years of rat studies sometimes don't convert to human compatibility, in major ways.

When I was a kid my father did a two day drug trial in a closed facility. After the first day the trial got scrapped because one of the other patients went into anaphylaxis, and this side effect wasn't predicted. My father still got $400 or something like that... but my mother lectured him and told him to never do anything like that again.
 
Pretty shocking to hear about this but in theory the people taking part should understand the risks. As others have said, I doubt they fully grasped that death is an inherent risk however unlikely, it may be or seem at least.

Tangerine Dream said:
A RC opiate gave people Parkinson's, effectively, a while ago...
Click to expand...

I thought was a stimulant of some variety... in Russia... I can't find anything about it for the life of me. Certainly read about some RC doing that though. I seem to remember it had "p"(s) in it's abbreviation whatever it was.

Could be making it up, but I suppose between the two of us the fact is there somewhere.

*edit* - I think you are referring to Desmethylprodine (MPPP)? Quite possibly what I am too. An impurity in it can cause irreversible symptoms akin to parkinsons.
 
Last edited:
Si Dread said:
The chemists & pharmacologists are the ones who make sure that whatever I am testing is already safe & likely to have a particular effect. I think it's much riskier "using" RC's regularly or on nights out that it is to research lysergamides correctly but again, that's just my opinion.



Fair enough, we clearly differ.

I think of "taking" drugs as something to do for fun. Like having a beer in the evening over a curry or necking half a pill to enjoy bouncing at a gig.

When I get given a brand new psychedelic to test, I am not taking it for fun. I am taking it to make notes of the onset, effects & duration, any physical effects such as on blood pressure & heart rate, breathing etc. The experiment is done is the same environment every time, usually my home & a nearby, quiet local park & always during a sunny day. Repeating experiments under the same conditions aids differentiation of effects with often extremely similar com pounds. Socialising & having "fun" is out of the question. Sometimes it's challenging enough making the notes themsleves! lol

I'm not inclined to use RC's for fun anymore because I decided it was too dangerous after poisoning my brain on the still popular 5-mapb. You don't need to preach to me about the dangers of RC's, I am personally experienced. Which is why I focus my interest in novel psychedelics.

Sasha Shulgin spent decades inventing, synthesising & assying personally new materials & he died of natural causes.

Nonetheless, this sort of work is not for the slightly dim or faint hearted.
Click to expand...


What is the longest river in the world?
 
Chatative said:
Pretty shocking to hear about this but in theory the people taking part should understand the risks. As others have said, I doubt they fully grasped that death is an inherent risk however unlikely, it may be or seem at least.



I thought was a stimulant of some variety... in Russia... I can't find anything about it for the life of me. Certainly read about some RC doing that though. I seem to remember it had "p"(s) in it's abbreviation whatever it was.

Could be making it up, but I suppose between the two of us the fact is there somewhere.

*edit* - I think you are referring to Desmethylprodine (MPPP)? Quite possibly what I am too. An impurity in it can cause irreversible symptoms akin to parkinsons.
Click to expand...

Thats the one yeah, tis an opiate I think. Either way pretty grim 8(
 
the guy synthesized it himself and basically it completely destroyed all his dopamine receptors.
 
BecomingJulie said:
Anyone else think this could be a false-flag operation designed to stir up anti-cannabis sentiment?
Click to expand...
Categorically no.
The disgrace of a journalism industry is willingly generating such sentiment with their complete lack of scientific literacy.

Endocannabinoids and other FAA's are some of the most vital biomolecules in our bodies. They act as chemosignal generators, alter cellular permeability, are responsible for controlling appetite and subjective pleasure from food, fat production and storage, pituitary axis function and countless other things.
We are discovering new actions almost daily.

Medications with a similar mechanism of action (or rather, the intended action - this could have been the result of the drug hitting non-target areas) have passed all safety trials and are either on the market or nearing release: Merck's MK-4409 for example.

These drugs are really nothing much to do with Cannabis at all, it's just the nomenclature.
FAAHi's as a class are one I would never willingly consume, like consuming Tyramine with MAOi's I would be terrified of unwittingly consuming a precursor given we still aren't clear on all possible pathways.
The idea of selectively modulating CBR's is, relatively speaking, pretty damn new. One of the most influential papers was published in 2001 (Free on Pubmed) and documented the capacity of Sulfonylfluoride-containing triglycerides as irreversible inhibitors at nanomolar concentrations in rat models (and some even more potent (!) structures).
Last year it was discovered that the progression of Huntington's is related to dysfunction of the CB and DA systems and dependent on epigenetics.

There is the possibility that this particular drug was being considered for use in HD patients - Bial did have it filed in their pipeline as intended for "Neurological and Psychiatric pathologies" but they aren't exactly being entirely open at this point. The 5 casualties could very well have been significant expressors of a gene which transcribes differently to the 108 (?) who showed no problems upon exposure and as a result biosynthesised a major neurotoxin.

There is so much more to this story than Bullshit Broadcast Cunts could ever conceive of.
 
@Ceres: Just reading wiki now... I thought it was more than one person and also more recent than 1976. But I guess it was still technically an RC. Also it seems like something that could have happened to more people if it had of happened/been synthed a different way, at a different time. I doubt he was expecting to get parkinsons from it :\
 
consumer said:
Yeah i have to agree there. A lot of these RC's have no history of human use. It's been a miracle that nothing like this has happened, well at least to my knowledge it hasn't.
Click to expand...
MPTP/MPPP+ induced Parkinsonian Disorder.
MDMB-FUBINACA was a plague on Russia's drug users - at least 25 dead and 700 hospitalised.
XLR-11 blew up the nephrotic system of some users.
XLR-12 is an easily weaponisable nephro/neuro/cardio/hepato-toxin.

Many examples, a lot of suffering, and the SCRA's in particular are unrivaled.
 
Tangerine Dream said:
@Ceres: Just reading wiki now... I thought it was more than one person and also more recent than 1976. But I guess it was still technically an RC. Also it seems like something that could have happened to more people if it had of happened/been synthed a different way, at a different time. I doubt he was expecting to get parkinsons from it :\
Click to expand...

Oh I was remembering this:

In 1982, six people in Santa Clara County, California, US, were diagnosed with Parkinsonism after having used MPPP contaminated with MPTP. The neurologist J. William Langston in collaboration with NIH tracked down MPTP as the cause, and its effects on primates were researched. The motor symptoms of two of the seven patients were eventually successfully treated at Lund University Hospital in Sweden with neural grafts of fetal tissue.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPTP
 
THECATINTHEHAT said:
What is the longest river in the world?
Click to expand...

The Amazon?

(that's irony by the way).

I do think that for the most part, RCs aren't as novel as some of the drugs used in exploratory human trials - to a degree the RC makers will want to be similar to something already existent so that people will know what it is and it will hopefully have similar effects (that's not to say they will of course). Plus despite how people perceive them, i doubt many RC manufacturers want to actually kill their customers, if only for capitalist reasons. Maybe the comparison to human trials of analogues of known drugs would be a bit closer.

Still, nonetheless, risk is risk - it doesn't matter what the odds are when you end up the one in the one in a million.
 
Vurtual said:
The Amazon?

(that's irony by the way).

I do think that for the most part, RCs aren't as novel as some of the drugs used in exploratory human trials - to a degree the RC makers will want to be similar to something already existent so that people will know what it is and it will hopefully have similar effects (that's not to say they will of course). Plus despite how people perceive them, i doubt many RC manufacturers want to actually kill their customers, if only for capitalist reasons. Maybe the comparison to human trials of analogues of known drugs would be a bit closer.

Still, nonetheless, risk is risk - it doesn't matter what the odds are when you end up the one in the one in a million.
Click to expand...
RC "innovation" is nothing more than attaining a copy of Bayer/Merck's patents from the last 40 years, finding the structure of what they scrapped and e-mailing [email protected] [if any of you are stupid enough to think that's a real e-mail: please stop taking drugs immediately] with an IUPAC name, the synthesis from the patent and a price offer.

The original generations of RC's were almost exclusively scrapped pharmaceutical suggestions, the fact they were scrapped should say something - ineffective, toxic or out-classed by another compound. However, those that reached trials at least have data to go off.

Shit gets really messy once the safe, known options like Diclazepam (out-classed Diaz 7-fold potency wise, but less effective as a muscle relaxant or hypnotic with a loooong HL) are used up. Then we get actual chemical innovation and enter the most dangerous realm, the realm of theoretical chemistry and absolutely no toxicology. The further we head down the rabbit-hole the worse it gets, often the next generation appears before any major concerns of the predecessor come to light. This is how we end up with abominations like Flubromazolam, Fluorinated Cannabinoids which decompose into Fluoroacetate way below their vapourisation point, Diphenidine, 4F-PVP, MDMB FUBINACA, XLR 12....

The snowball has rolled so far down the hill that there's too much money involved for the consideration of destroying biological systems to exist.
 
Last edited:
Tangerine Dream said:
Oh I was remembering this:

In 1982, six people in Santa Clara County, California, US, were diagnosed with Parkinsonism after having used MPPP contaminated with MPTP. The neurologist J. William Langston in collaboration with NIH tracked down MPTP as the cause, and its effects on primates were researched. The motor symptoms of two of the seven patients were eventually successfully treated at Lund University Hospital in Sweden with neural grafts of fetal tissue.[7]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPTP
Click to expand...

As a result of this the US government rushed through a law banning MDMA in 1985 against the wishes of hundreds of psychiatrists who had been working safely & effectively with it because of the media furore surrounding the MPTP/China White Designer Drug tragedy. Apparently the fact that both drugs abbreviated to the same number of letter both beginning with "M" was enough to convince the DEA to rush through a law change that MAPS has been fighting ever since.
 
Si Dread said:
As a result of this the US government rushed through a law banning MDMA in 1985 against the wishes of hundreds of psychiatrists who had been working safely & effectively with it because of the media furore surrounding the MPTP/China White Designer Drug tragedy. Apparently the fact that both drugs abbreviated to the same number of letter both beginning with "M" was enough to convince the DEA to rush through a law change that MAPS has been fighting ever since.
Click to expand...

Yeah - it's all alphabetic relativism; because alcohol is legal and so beloved, alprazolam, adderall, Ambien, acetaminophen, and Alka-Seltzer are legal, too ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top