Ethnobotanicals Peyote vs Trichs vs Synthetic Mescaline

[Didgital]

Doesn't seem like there's a thread discussing the differences, but I have noticed differences in all, and even within trichocereous species.

I find peyote to be the most schizo/energetic... Seen some real freakouts with it.

I find syn mesc to be much calmer, though i find it to comparable to a less pushy more visual MDA. It's not super visual on it's own, and has a slight disso effect. Not like ketamine, but a few times, i've taken mesc, and at the peak experience, I've forgotten who I was and where I was at.

Trichs can be quite different. Pachanoi i find somewhat sedating, while I find bridgesii to be truly visionary but not so schizo as peyote. Because trichs grow so much faster, people have been breeding them to higher mescaline content than even peyote. However peyote has the isoquinolines and is a much more complex chemical composition than even the most potent trich. Working on a pellotine project now.

I also love TMA-2. Very mescaline like and also shares some similarities with DOM, but it leans closer to mesc IMO. That maybe shouldn't be approached here, but I do find it similar.

If you have any thoughts, please discuss.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I've never had cactus or extracted mescaline so I can't compare, but I have experienced synthetic mescaline half a dozen times and seeing as mescaline is notorious for nausea and purging it's worth mentioning that I've experienced only mild fleeting nausea even on doses of 750mg and have never needed to purge. I usually split the dose into three and take one every 20 minutes.

Maybe I just have a high tolerance for it, but I think it's more likely that it's mainly the secondary alkaloids and cactus matter that are responsible for the nausea everyone associates with mescaline rather than the mescaline itself.

I've only taken TMA-2 once at 25mg and didn't really feel anything so it might be bunk. I still have the vial so maybe I'll try 50mg.

 

[Didgital]

doses of 750mg and have never needed to purge. I usually split the dose into three and take one every 20 minutes.

I think you right. High doses of synthetic mescaline i get "twinges" of nausea, but nothing like taking actual cactus whether it's peyote or a trichocereous. Peyote (if taken a lot in short order) has me and everyone puking.

I do think dried peyote is less nauseating then fresh peyote, not sure why but that's my experience.

I've puked on trichocereous a few times, but I've several experiences where I never did. I don't blame the nausea on mescaline though because i've taken 666mg of HCL and while i was floored (couldn't walk) i never puked.

 

[Dougie Doozer]

I also love TMA-2. Very mescaline like and also shares some similarities with DOM, but it leans closer to mesc IMO. That maybe shouldn't be approached here, but I do find it similar.

If you have any thoughts, please discuss.

What was your tma-2 range? I was maybe going to insufflate 5-10 mg if oral 25-45. Never tried before I don't prefer stims but if like mesc and dom that makes me want it.

 

[Pfafffed]

I've never used enough back to back to properly compare, but I've got the *impression* that pachanoi was dreamy and empathogenic, pure mescaline was crystal clear, and bridgesii was more intensely trippy (like a 4-sub trypt.) But there's all kinds of room for bias and variability between experiences, so who knows?

 

[Didgital]

What was your tma-2 range? I was maybe going to insufflate 5-10 mg if oral 25-45. Never tried before I don't prefer stims but if like mesc and dom that makes me want it.

42mg area.... Oral (i prolly should have boofed it to conserve it. its amazing imo)

Was on my birthday..

Told work to fuck off and dissolved into my bed. and then the universe I came back super happy and empowered. i spent my bday alone high on psychedelics, but was really healing. I can't really tell you much beyond that. Love yourself sometimes...

Ive had disasters w peyote (i wrote about one) on a few occasions and had a very hectic DOM trip once. TMA-2 at this dose was amazing for me at the time. I've only taken it once... I cherish the last i have but I will take it eventually, maybe 2 doses left...

 

[Didgital]

bridgesii was more intensely trippy

my first real vision was with bridgesii
Full on visit from a spirit who offered me guidance./wisdom.
I didn't follow it cuz i was dumb and young.
Bad things happened...

 

[JackARoe]

I have had about 20 cactus trips over 40 years with Trichocereus Peruvianus. The trips had been so rewarding I have not tried other cactus and never had straight mescaline. Never peyote. So curious about San Pedro or Bridgesii. My knowledge on mescaline is limited but what I do know for a fact is humans need to do more mescaline.

I remember in the late 70's and early 80's the little barrels that people called mesc. I would love to know what some of those actually were. Some were shorter than LSD trips. Obviously some type of psychedelic. We all knew it was not mescaline. But some were excellent.

I am curious as to how the trips differ from different cactus or even synthetic. I hope this thread takes off. Thanks Didgital

 

[Didgital]

I have had about 20 cactus trips over 40 years with Trichocereus Peruvianus. The trips had been so rewarding I have not tried other cactus and never had straight mescaline. Never peyote. So curious about San Pedro or Bridgesii. My knowledge on mescaline is limited but what I do know for a fact is humans need to do more mescaline.

I remember in the late 70's and early 80's the little barrels that people called mesc. I would love to know what some of those actually were. Some were shorter than LSD trips. Obviously some type of psychedelic. We all knew it was not mescaline. But some were excellent.

I am curious as to how the trips differ from different cactus or even synthetic. I hope this thread takes off. Thanks Didgital

i wonder if it was DOM. I also got some barrels maybe around 2000? little tiny brown microdots also sold as mescaline.. def wasn't mesc and it wasn't L

 

[JackARoe]

The trips from those little mesc barrels only lasted about 6 to 8 hours. So it seem to be either as long as acid or shorter. However, I’m talking from 1978 to 1981. In fact that’s the last time I’ve heard of those little barrels. So the ones in 2000 could have been DOM. But the ones from years earlier, definitely did not seem like it.

 

[Didgital]

The trips from those little mesc barrels only lasted about 6 to 8 hours. So it seem to be either as long as acid or shorter. However, I’m talking from 1978 to 1981. In fact that’s the last time I’ve heard of those little barrels. So the ones in 2000 could have been DOM. But the ones from years earlier, definitely did not seem like it.

sounds like a mystery. If i had one i would run through the mass spec

 

[JackARoe]

That would be awesome. I know there has been discussion here before on what those little barrels could have been. And then, of course, the different time periods that people came across them.

 

[iom]

This is a very interesting thread. My experience is all with trichos, but even among them I've encountered major differences. Results may depend on a lot more than the particular species but also the variety, growing conditions, timing of harvest, resting time before drying and/or preparation, and the nature of the preparation or extraction.

It is widely (but not universally) assumed that alkaloids other than mescaline are responsible for changing the experience. I'm skeptical in so far as none of the other tricho alkaloids appear to have much obvious effect on their own. Peyote may be a different story, and I'm very much interested in seeing the results of trials with e.g. pellotine. I have seen it suggested that some cactus alkaloids may be reversible MAOIs which, even if not appreciably absorbed from the gut, could increase the amount of mescaline that is absorbed. I'm not sure how this would qualitatively alter the experience, however, excepting maybe pharmacokinetic effects. Let's talk about those.

I personally have only ever gotten mescaline from tricho water infusions. What stands out to me is not so much the qualitative differences in the effects but the time-course of the trip. Most of my lifetime trips were with some dried "skins" (chunks of outer flesh, really) sold as trichocereus terschekii. I call this my "fast" cactus. The species is controversial with many researchers claiming it is inactive or that it only produces anxiety. Whatever I have works very well and is potent. It also has a time course that appears to be nearly identical to reports I've read with synthetic mescaline. In contrast, I've lately been experimenting with some dried and powdered samples of t. pachanoi and t. peruvianus, both allegedly from Peru. (I assume it's very similar to what one might find for sale at the appropriate market in Peru.) I call this my "slow" cactus. Both of these new cacti are much less potent unfortunately. I need close to 3X the dose by dry weight for the same peak level of effects. The time-course with these is totally different compared to my "fast" cactus. On a dose of one of these "slow" cacti I feel very little until t+1.5, and then it climbs very slowly to a peak at around T+6-7 hours (like a reverse plateau). Then it drops off rather rapidly and is mostly over by 12 hours.

Is it just me? I mean, I've never heard anyone else say they noticed such dramatically different time courses from different mescaline sources. My hypothesis is that cactus mucilage (slime) can bind the alkaloids in a way that slows their absorption down. My "fast" cactus makes a very watery infusion that passes effortlessly through a coffee filter. My "slow" cacti both contained a lot of mucilage, and in fact, the infusion appears to become a colloidal gel in so far as the mucilage polysaccharides link to each other. It won't go through a coffee filter at all, at least not without a vacuum.

In any case, I believe the rate of absorption of a psychedelic has a big impact on how it feels. Drinking "slow" cactus infusion in which mescaline absorption is dramatically slowed is analogous to using a different route of administration. With this in mind, any qualitative differences may simply be due to different rates of absorption. As far as I know, this could be the case. I guess if I ever extract pure mescaline or obtain some synthetically prepared, I could try consuming it slowly over a multiple hour period to see if the effects are more like these "slow" trichos. FWIW, I feel the effects of the two "slow" cacti where pretty similar. The pachanoi was maybe a little more stimulating than the peruvianus? Maybe? Or maybe I'm influenced by an online product review for the pachanoi which described it as a stimulating SP. I think I'd need several trials with each to have any confidence in my assessment. The difference between my these two "slow" cacti and my "fast" cactus is pretty stark.

I'm very interested to hear from those who've had different cacti and/or synthetic mescaline, did you notice substantial differences in the time course? Also, what's the mucilage like in peyote? Or is there any?

 

[Didgital]

I'm skeptical in so far as none of the other tricho alkaloids appear to have much obvious effect on their own

what alkaloids have you been able to try alone??

I've never heard anyone else say they noticed such dramatically different time courses from different mescaline sources

IME duration has usually been similar, except for one time i ate 2 feet of bridgesii as a water tea, and that trip went for close to 24hrs.

Also, what's the mucilage like in peyote? Or is there any?

Not nearly as goopy as san pedro (pachanoi) but it might even taste worse. I've taken it as dried powder, fresh plant, and water based tea, and as a goo that I not sure how it was made. It may be even more nauseating though. I puke "almost" every peyote trip.


Also out of all my mesc/cacti experiences I would probably say that Bridgesii was my fav. Was visionary, not schizo, didn't destroy my stomach.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I do think dried peyote is less nauseating then fresh peyote, not sure why but that's my experience

Maybe the alkaloids are more readily absorbed from fresh plant matter than dry resulting in a faster onset and more intense nausea?

There's a chance I may be coming into some peyote in the near future. It'll be a rare find if I do. I really should look into growing my own San Pedro or torch or whatever. Somewhat astonishingly, psychoactive cacti appear to be legal in the UK.

 

[Didgital]

I really should look into growing my own San Pedro or torch or whatever

I whole heartedly agree. They're pretty easy, and it doesn't take too long to amass a collection that will have you tripping for the rest of your life. I don't think UK is ideal place climate-wise but I have still seen some pretty impressive greenhouse gardens there.

Starting from seed is a little trickier.

 

[iom]

what alkaloids have you been able to try alone??

None, actually. Not even mescaline. Sorry that wasn't clear.

IME duration has usually been similar, except for one time i ate 2 feet of bridgesii as a water tea, and that trip went for close to 24hrs.

Yes. The overall durations of my "fast" versus "slow" cacti trips are roughly the same at about 12 hours, but the time it takes to onset and peak are very different. Let me try to break it down:

Trip Stage  "fast"  "slow"

==========================

Alert        0.3     1.0

Coming up    1.0     3.0

Body peak    2.0     4.5

Mental peak  3.0     5.5

Visual peak  4.0     7.0

Coming down  9.0    10.0

Landing     12.0    12.0

These are times in hours after dosing. Note that at say T+2 hours, the difference in effects level between these two materials is night and day. With the "slow" stuff, I'm only lightly feeling it. With the "fast" stuff, my whole body is surging with energy. These timings have been quite consistent across my multiple with these materials, and unlike the many qualitative differences people ascribe to different cacti, I believe time course is not nearly as dependent on set and setting.

Not nearly as goopy as san pedro (pachanoi) but it might even taste worse. I've taken it as dried powder, fresh plant, and water based tea, and as a goo that I not sure how it was made. It may be even more nauseating though. I puke "almost" every peyote trip.

Yes. I believe peyote actually contains soap compounds which induce nausea and vomiting on their own. If peyote is not slimy with mucilage, then I would speculate that the time course will be closer to the "fast" trip. On the subject of nausea, mescaline definitely causes it in some people (see e.g. PIHKAL), but it can usually be minimized by spreading out the dose over a short period of time. Even 20 minutes can make a big difference.

Something I intend to try soon is to A/B extract the peruvianus material I currently have to see if separating the mescaline from the mucilage leads to a "fast" trip instead of a "slow" one. I hope it does because I definitely prefer the "fast" trip. It comes up much faster. The stronger effects (e.g., the time between "mental peak" and "coming down") last longer. And qualitatively I find it to be more energetic and visionary. A possible benefit of the "slow" trips is that the come-up feels a lot smoother (but longer of course), and the experience feels a lot mellower overall, which may make it more friendly to trip newbies.

Also out of all my mesc/cacti experiences I would probably say that Bridgesii was my fav. Was visionary, not schizo, didn't destroy my stomach.

I definitely look forward to trying other tricho cacti. Maybe bridgesii is another low mucilage "fast" cactus? One species I haven't seen mentioned here is t. scopulicola. Scops are becoming popular with growers because they grow very fast and have little to no spines. I expect to be able to try a pure scop as well as some scop crossed with with pach, peru, and bridge. I'm also going to look into pure bridges as well. It should be interesting.

 

[JackARoe]

I will be honest I have outer skin strips from Trichocereus Peruvianus that I powdered. Had it for many years. Even 20 gr is a real nice trip but I usually do 30 gr. I toss and wash. I get no nausea ever from the powdered cactus and it hits within the hour. Also my last handful of cactus trips I have been using kratom daily. So I would wake up on those days. Toss and wash my 15 gr of kratom. Then toss and wash 30 grams of powdered cactus. lol No nausea. But what I do when I have kratom is I take like half a bagel, something bready to absorb. Then I take the cactus and more bagel, cream cheese or peanut butter to absorb. An hour later a few hits of cannabis and I am already tripping. Never had nausea from cactus. I have taken Morning Glory seeds and gotten very nauseas so I can be prone to that. I have also had Morning Glory powder and not get nauseas. The fresher the better. But I start with an empty stomach and eat something to absorb.

I am sort of stubborn with ways I do things in that if it works great I stick with it. So I sandwich DMT between an herb and one day will try a vaporizer. I also have only tossed and washed powdered cactus skins. Never tried eating the raw cactus or making tea. Toss and wash gets it down quick.

Now the effects of different cactus I do now know. But I think there is a thread comparing LSD, Mushrooms, and Mescaline. But the individual cactus effects already posted here are totally interesting.

 

[iom]

Maybe your particular peruvianus powder is low mucilage. I've read plenty of reports from people who got terrible nausea and vomiting from tossing powder. Some say that it seems to expand massively once its in contact with water, which in practice can mean vomiting up large amounts of green goop. Eww! Of course often people are having to take 60+g this way to get off, and the quantity of powder surely matters too.

What kind of trips do you usually get? Do you get a lot of CEVs? OEVs? Auditory hallucinations? Have you ever taken more than 30 g? I see people often claim mescaline is not very visual, but I suspect most people saying that just aren't taking enough. Of course it's great to take in smaller amounts too. Low dose mescaline can be an excellent accompaniment to an art gallery or museum. I want to try going to the zoo on it some time.

 

[JackARoe]

What kind of trips do you usually get? Do you get a lot of CEVs? OEVs? Auditory hallucinations? Have you ever taken more than 30 g? I see people often claim mescaline is not very visual, but I suspect most people saying that just aren't taking enough. Of course it's great to take in smaller amounts too. Low dose mescaline can be an excellent accompaniment to an art gallery or museum. I want to try going to the zoo on it some time.

I have had 40 gr once of the same cactus. However that trip was the only mescaline trip I had that was a bit too strong and I was filled with anxiety. My wife was in Canada, her mother on her death bed and I was home just waiting on news. Like pacing. So again set and setting is important. There is that chapter in TIHKAL, where Ann describes her first mescaline trip. There was a tense moment when an animal was dying and nature stayed tense until the animal died and then nature resumed. Well that day I was on 40 gr it was intense and I honestly just waited for it to be over, but in a good way. Lots of music but I felt like we were waiting for someone to die. About 12 hours later I took 2 mg of etizolam and watched Miles Davis on Netflix. That was relieving.

All my other trips from 25-30 gr were magical. Mescaline has that uncanny way of making a regular moment magical. It also can feel like one moment sober and then next completely tripping. It is gentle. And I do get visuals. I have had visuals on one trip that were exactly like a hit of LSD. I would say mescaline is very visual if you lean into it. It can overtake me if I keep my eyes closed. A good cactus trip lasts me 12-14 hours. I can feel the afterglow for days though.

I can imagine nausea if I had to take 60 gr of powder. It could very well be potent strips I have had and I settled on 30 gr after powdering. But I have heard regular San Pedro takes more than 30 gr.

All this talk. I could use a day of cactus. Why is finding time amongst duty so hard?