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People who don't do drugs are missing out

i'm not being pedantic - i'm trying to have a discussion. on a discussion board - go figure. :)

if anybody's being pedantic here, it's bowdenta. i'm going to step back again - i'm trying to keep this on topic by discussing the substantive question and the intent behind it. to me, all these contrived hypothetical situations are just dragging this further and futher off-topic.

alasdair
 
alasdairm said:
thence, anyone who hasn't done everything (i.e. everyone) is missing out on something...

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alasdair
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this is a good point

let me put my thoughts another way

most drugs tend to be very rewarding for most people, and they can be used safely. i think that what the OP is getting at is that most people who abstain from drugs believe that drugs CAN'T be used safely, and thus their abstinence is based on misinformation. if they knew the truth, there's a good chance their choice would be different

let's say there's a peaceful little village, and red line circling it. the village leaders say you'll die if you cross the line--you have to stay. little do these villagers know, leaving would give them the adventure of a lifetime. (this analogy would only apply to psychedelics). are these villagers missing out? the basic human drives of curiosity, wonder, awe, beauty, and whatever allows us to have 'spiritual' experience, which are integral parts of most 'positive' trips (and, controlling set and setting, there is negligible risk of a 'bad trip'), are stifled in both the analogy and in a similar manner in real life

p.s. many people would indeed not enjoy losing their mind, or they may have other reasons for abstaining which are not 'misinformed,' EG medical reasons. these people can make that choice, and i won't be bothered at all. the people i am talking about are those who abstain because they are misled. how much of the american population would you estimate are misled to an absurd degree about drugs, because of society's intensely emotional attitude towards drugs?
 
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alasdairm said:
i'm not being pedantic - i'm trying to have a discussion. on a discussion board - go figure. :)

if anybody's being pedantic here, it's bowdenta. i'm going to step back again - i'm trying to keep this on topic by discussing the substantive question and the intent behind it. to me, all these contrived hypothetical situations are just dragging this further and futher off-topic.
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^ that's what i was getting at.

i couldn't read far enough to see what was going on with bowdenta, i was just getting frustrated at the way My Higher Self's fairly simple premise was being deconstructed like it was a shakespeare play. fwiw i agree with pretty much everything he has said in this thread.

back on topic: yes, people who *haven't tried* drugs are missing out. their loss. ;)
 
well if I cant win this argument by arguing what my gut feels then Ill just contrive situations until you're eventually forced to conceed certain points until my assertion eventually becomes incontrovertible
Ive been doing this before steven colbert was even on the daily show
 
bowdenta said:
cmon alasdair she is categorically better served medically

it would ease her pain
allow her to eat
it would literally even CURE her CANCER!!
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alasdair has a point here. medical service involves HER body, it has to revolve around what she wants to do with HER body

however, i believe what you are trying to get across, and i agree, is that she would probably be more comfortable and healthy by accepting the medical help. but this isn't what matters in this particular contrived hypothetical situation
 
bowdenta said:
is she better served by remaining drug free her entire life or is she better served by hittin the ganja and reduce her suffering
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alasdairm said:
that's her decision, obviously.
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I wish that was the case legally. I think it should always be someones personal choice, I dont think anyone else should have the authority to make that choice for you, including law enforcement people.

edit: although, I'm sure thats the one thing every person on this site CAN agree on.
 
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Taking drugs is a complex thing; although I'd like my friends to experience the qualities of ecstasy, which I consider an incredible wonder drug which has shown me so much, there is also the fact that I have abused ecstasy a little because of its very nature - a pill that makes you happy - and hence it can be argued that certain people will naturally benefit, whether in general health, or happiness (as heavy "e" use can cause depression) from never touching the drug.

How many people do you know that have taken ecstasy 2 or 3 times never to touch it again? Or, if you use regularly but "safely", have you never gone through periods of abuse through it, at one stage or another? How good was the hundredth time you took it compared to the first, revealing time, that I want my friends to see?...

I believe it is very hard for someone never to abuse a substance once one had shed ones fear of taking it and its consequences. I'm not saying its impossible, just not a very common thing. And heavy drug abuse does lead to a general decreased happiness, doesn't it?...

Perhaps the reason some people here are so keen on others "missing out" by not taking drugs is because they want others to suffer the same fate they have?... Or to comfort themselves in their life choices; that taking drugs IS the best way to lead our lives?...
 
I believe it is very hard for someone never to abuse a substance once one had shed ones fear of taking it and its consequences
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you just have to understand the consequences of the abuse. eg i limit my opiate intake because i dont tolerance to drain my wallet and give me less of a high and give me shitty withdrawal. i don't 'fear' the consequences, i just understand what they are, that they should be avoided, and how to avoid them
 
Of course you do; but my point is you wouldn't have any withdrawals at all, more money and probably more brain cells if you hadn't touched drugs at all. Some people would no doubt have led better, happier lives if they had never touched drugs. That might not be the case for either you or me, but for someone else, you never know

hence coming back to the point, it might be hypocritical to say, people who aren't taking drugs are missing out.
 
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im going to have to go with alasdairm.

there's no way you can make an argument that some experiences are inherently better than others.

while it might appear that an ice cream sundae is better than cancer, i'm sure i can find someone who hates ice cream and would welcome the cancer that relieves them of crippling fibromyalgia.

while you could argue that everyone finds pleasure better than pain, the things that give people pleasure or pain are differing and interchangeable. and theres always masochists...

:\
 
DragonFly31 said:
it can be argued that certain people will naturally benefit, whether in general health, or happiness (as heavy "e" use can cause depression) from never touching the drug.
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this is the anti-argument to my assertion

you cant say that it is inherent to the drug or the user to stop when sufficient gain i achieved

we are going back to the argument that you cant compare one user (or nonusers) experience to another

but i gotcha ali

even though i might have only been 18 before i first tried a drug and there is alot to be learned in life past 18 years I was still an adult by the time I was able to discern which life was better - one with drugs and one without

this gives me expert authority on life seen through the eyes of both a sober person and a drug user

and my expert authority is that adult life having tried drugs is more beneficial than adult life not having tried drugs

again - I can only ascertain that I am better through personal experience and over 5 years on Bl comparing the experience of say 100k registered blers- cant say its true for everyone - but it holds true for most

booyah
 
pennywise said:
im going to have to go with alasdairm.

there's no way you can make an argument that some experiences are inherently better than others.

while it might appear that an ice cream sundae is better than cancer, i'm sure i can find someone who hates ice cream and would welcome the cancer that relieves them of crippling fibromyalgia.

while you could argue that everyone finds pleasure better than pain, the things that give people pleasure or pain are differing and interchangeable. and theres always masochists...

:\
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that is the first time it made sense, i see what you are saying....but again...it is about what WE think they are missing out on, and like felix said, you are just nitpicking.

dragonfly31 said:
Perhaps the reason some people here are so keen on others "missing out" by not taking drugs is because they want others to suffer the same fate they have?... Or to comfort themselves in their life choices; that taking drugs IS the best way to lead our lives?...
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not at all. i was actually thinking perhaps it was just the opposite, since drugs haven't affected me negatively, nor my higher self (he is my hubby, so i know) we rarely use anything. i was assuming others must have seriously been negatively influenced if they are so against others experiencing what they did. perhaps alasdair and pff have suffered massive addictions, i don't know them. i can't understand their pov otherwise.

i mean srsly, if i like something, i want others to have it too. if i don't, i don't. im selfless like that.
 
People here seem to be adept at reading motives and ideologies into the simplest posts. I think some here should try out for the shadow boxing olympics.
 
DragonFly31 said:
Of course you do; but my point is you wouldn't have any withdrawals at all, more money and probably more brain cells if you hadn't touched drugs at all. Some people would no doubt have led better, happier lives if they had never touched drugs. That might not be the case for either you or me, but for someone else, you never know

hence coming back to the point, it might be hypocritical to say, people who aren't taking drugs are missing out.
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You wouldn't have the pain of divorce, more money and less emotional baggage if you had never gotten married.
Some people would no doubt have led better, happier lives if they had never fallen in love. That might not be the case for either you or me, but for someone else, you never know.

hence coming back to the point, it might be hypocritical to say, people who never experience love are missing out.
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Avoiding something for fear of the worst possible outcome is the worst reason to.
 
garuda said:
Avoiding something for fear of the worst possible outcome is the worst reason to.
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Thats a good point. If people didnt do stuff because of the possability of something bad happening we would all lead very boring lives living on our couches.... except that could be dangerous, theres always the possability of the roof caving in.

However, I dont think the discussion going on here has anything to do with people not doing drugs out of fear.
 
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