I think you could be on to something. I've done DPT a handful of times, but I've never done salvia, ibogaine or any other well known k-opioid agonists. DPT is definitely out there, visionary, dark, and fun is not a word I'd use to describe it. I think it is a good tool to face your own mortality on. It does seem similar what you hear about salvia and ibogaine. However, as a challenge to this idea: maybe you could say the same thing about 5-meo-dmt, which lacks the bulky tail? I haven't gone very far with 5-meo-dmt yet, so can't compare subjectively.
Thanks for the response.
I haven't tried 5-MeO-DMT either yet, but I think I understand your perspective. I've got some theories about that too, which already definitely have to be factored into the salvia comparison.... Since this is pretty much all just going to be brainstorming anyway, I suppose I'll go into it a bit.
I've been suspecting lately that dopamine release in certain area or areas of the brain, most probably including the nucleus accumbens based on certain research, is responsible for causing a lot of the overlaps between different types of hallucinogenic experiences in relation to things like structured, panoramic or interactive environments like a dream, which makes enough sense to me given that dopamine in that area is also thought to be involved in actual dreaming. Salvinorin A, the active chemical in salvia, notably
even increases dopamine here while also uniquely not producing habitual use in rodents, and as most selective kappa-opioid agonists do it actually decreases it almost everywhere else. Interestingly though, that doesn't stop the others from apparently having hallucinogenic properties, but I've never heard them described as being as psychedelic as salvia, more like just delusional hallucinations. So, maybe there really are multiple things going on with salvia....
If some of the mind-altering effects of salvia can be tied to that specific dopamine release, then I need to try to eliminate them from the comparison first by relating them to as many other dopamine-releasing hallucinogens as I can. I've used psychedelics, dissociatives, deliriants, salvia, and amanitas and they've all definitely had certain types of universal hallucinogenic effects at the right doses, not to mention easily getting to the same kinds of states with cannabis and meditation, and so if I remove those effects from all of my salvia experiences in retrospect, I feel like about what I'm left with is some unusual body sensations like a mixed sweating or pins and needles feeling, a very memorable alteration of gravity that often makes me twirl to the left while walking and sometimes comes along with spinning or spiraling visual themes, and an unusually heavy focus on things like feeling "stuck", which can manifest in multiple ways such as being forced to wait, or being trapped in an inanimate object or random body part. On the other hand, this removes the white light aspect of the experience, the duality of fear or bliss depending on how you accept it, and the possibility of mystical visions, all of which I have found in the other types of hallucinations including even the deliriants, and which also fits with what is spoken about with 5-MeO-DMT quite often.
When it comes to a relationship between DPT and 5-MeO-DMT, that makes total sense to me. From all the research I've seen so far, it would seem that 5-MeO-DMT is essentially a full agonist at 5-HT2A, whereas DMT has lower efficacy and psilocin lower still, but then, with few exceptions, extending the bulk of the tail seems to increase efficacy again, sometimes drastically. By at least one study I know that comes to mind, DPT is listed as a full agonist. I also think it's interesting, though, I can't speak for DPT specifically, that a lot of tail extension receptor affinity data seems to suggest that greater bulk can increase the ratio of 5-HT2A to 5-HT2C affinity, which based on my knowledge of those receptors might mean that they release more dopamine in various areas of the brain for the same amount of other chemical cascade activation by 5-HT2A, since 5-HT2C is supposed to oppose dopamine release. Likewise, DPT seems like it might have pretty high 5-HT1A binding affinity probably due to being alike 8-OH-DPAT, and though it's probably still not as much activity as 5-MeO-DMT has at that site compared to 5-HT2A, that combined with the other thing really seem like they could give DPT a good amount of dopaminergic activity compared to the rest of its psychedelic effects, explaining the its relationship to salvia in that way as well. I actually think that a lot of synthetic tryptamines may work this way as well based on my experiences with them, particularly the fact that a linear progression up through tail alkyls has proven to me to consistently increase the prominence of visionary over geometric visuals effects....
Anyway though, so I suppose what I would really be the most interested in learning about in the effects of DPT would be those "salvia-only" effects that I mentioned before. Notably, these are the kinds of effects I got on 4-AcO-DALT as well.... Both before and after I was aware of the DALT compounds having kappa-opioid receptor affinity, I noticed that I felt sweatier on it than I do on most other tryptamines and I felt the pull to twirl to the left as I was walking, and after I knew and took a higher dose I also felt like I was getting a little bit of a pins and needles sensation, and also had some weirdly dark and alien visual designs for the light level of patterning I was getting. The first time I ever did it I also smoked it, and at the very beginning I felt so dreamy that I basically just lied back for a moment and got lost in something ineffable I can't much recall now, but it was very colorful like LSD and had sort of a visual carnival feeling to it. Afterwards it came with some odd anxiety as well....
Based on what I'm getting so far, my guess would be that if these tryptamines do have kappa-opioid receptor agonist activity it may only become a significant contributor at higher doses, but that also makes sense to me with how high doses of DPT are said to be extremely psychological and uniquely visionary. I really do wonder how much they might apply to normal doses of other tryptamines too though, like interestingly I've also felt a brief compulsion to spin while walking and had some weirdly dark visuals on 50 mg of 4-HO-MPT, but had no such physical feelings of any kind nor any dark visions at all on 4-HO-EPT at any dose. It's really too bad that testing novel tryptamine binding at kappa-opioid receptors is not something you typically see researched, but I really hope that that same team that's already been investigating it will continue doing so....
Kaleida, if you find a study that is locked that you'd like access to, send it my way, I'll post it in the what.cd research study thread, and have someone there with access to such things get the full text.
Thanks psy, I'll definitely keep that in mind!
I've been having luck with a lot of these, but that would be very helpful if I come across something I can't get that I really need.
it was a fantastic time. Fell asleep at 4am after watching a shit ton of movies and Star Trek hah.
