☮ Social ☮ PD Social Thread: Trans-dimensional Hyperspace Cocktail Bar - Fractals Apply Within

[Solipsis]

Better start moonshining

 

[xammy]

Well alcohol costs a fortune here. 6 beers (0,33L 4.5 percent of alcohol ) costs 6-10€. A bottle of vodka (0,7L) 20-25€. I remember when I was travelling last summer in Germany, 6x0,5L 5.2% beers cost fucking 2 euros. I rofled.

Drugs are pretty hard to get because of the strict customs, they cost a fuckload too. 1 Gram of cannabis costs 20€ pretty much everywhere.

 

[PepperSocks]

Better start moonshining

It's been on my list of things for a while. I've got all the supplies ready to go when I have a good place to do it. For the time being I'm making my own beer. Making high alcohol content mash for distilling is much easier. Making a good tasting beer is tough. I wouldn't want to try drinking a batch of mash meant for distilling. I'm sure it'd get ya drunk, but yuck!

Well alcohol costs a fortune here. 6 beers (0,33L 4.5 percent of alcohol ) costs 6-10€. A bottle of vodka (0,7L) 20-25€. I remember when I was travelling last summer in Germany, 6x0,5L 5.2% beers cost fucking 2 euros. I rofled.

Drugs are pretty hard to get because of the strict customs, they cost a fuckload too. 1 Gram of cannabis costs 20€ pretty much everywhere.

Aside from the euro conversion those prices are similar to what we have. A bottle (750ml) of the cheapest vodka is $25 CAN. 24 case of the cheapest beer is $28, good beer is $45. Generally $2 per beer for 6 packs.

Illegal drugs cost more, 1g of pot here is $10. I gotta say 20 euros is insane. The $10 grams are ~20% THC stuff too so it's not a quality thing.

When hard drugs are used moderately they're relatively cheap. I get 100 doses out of a gram of my main hard drug, ends up being $0.80 a dose. Like the US, customs increases risk and drives price up, but it certainly doesn't stop anything. Also cannabis and synthetics are domestically produced, so that makes it easier. It seems most developed nations have a strong domestic cannabis production industry. I'd be surprised if it wasn't the case in Finland.

Codeine is OTC and cheap. It's cheap because OTC codeine doesn't have sin-taxes applied to it. Once extracted from the Apap or ASA it can be dosed high. It would be a lot cheaper if it didn't have all that apap and caffeine mixed in. Funny thing is most of out pharm codeine is made by the methylation of morphine. So it would be even cheaper still if they just left it as morphine. I wonder how cheap mass produced morphine as single ingredient actually is.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

I used to hate alcohol, a half-bottle of brandy at age 14...and the resulting hangover kept me from drinking most of my adult life, but post iboga my brain chemistry was rewired and I do enjoy a cup of port wine from a time to time. They say wine is healthy too, and it feels really good to have some with dinner, or maybe i just feel all sophisticated when I drink my $5 Taylor Port. Who knew?

 

[PepperSocks]

Also alcohol seems to be real common problem for a lot of people in Finland, I don't know if theres a word of it in English how to express it.. Something like "sickness of nation" - the world is "kansantauti" in my language but i couldnt find it in dictionary. People drink a lot here and its pretty socially acceptable to get hammered every weekend. Really, if you dont do it you get fucked socially

Alcoholism?

Other than addiction to the substance itself there is a definite element in society where not drinking can make you an 'outsider'. It's socially acceptable to get hammered every weekend, but reality sinks in and it's very unacceptable to have it affect your working life.

 

[xammy]

Yes, there are more than 40 000 (there are 5 million people in total in finland) people who grow cannabis indoors in Finland.. Still the price is fucking insane! I'm going to grow outdoors at my summer place next summer again, should get anywhere between 10-100 grams for that.

I never find psychedelics or MDMA expensive, because you can (or should) use them so rarely. 120€ for a gram of MDMA is common here, and its not much considering its like 12€ per dose. Is this against the rules to discuss the prices tho?

Anyway, alcohol & tobacco taxes and all taxes are high as fuck in Finland. But I can't complain considering this country gives me probably the best education in the world for free, and also welfare. They pay your rent, your bills (like electricity and water) and you get ~500 or more€ per month to use as you like (for food, drugs etc.)

PepperSocks yeah, alcoholism, but alcoholism in Finland is very very common. Also I think drinking considered as "alcoholism" in some countries is normal consumption in here. Finland is also the leading world in suicides along with Japan. And over 700 000 people here use SSRI (or similar) drugs. Its fucking sick. Also 50 000 people (young adults) are considered to be in "social exclusion" as they dont work or study, and may have no social contacts whatsover. This is an increasing 'trend' over any civilized country tho.

 

[PepperSocks]

Is this against the rules to discuss the prices tho?

It's hazy. There was a rule on it, but there was also designated price threads in the regional forums, for the very purpose of discussing prices. I think it's just to keep a non-physical harm of prices from being mixed in with harm reduction forums. I think the social thread is exempt from that rule though, or I think it should be

Anyway, alcohol & tobacco taxes and all taxes are high as fuck in Finland. But I can't complain considering this country gives me probably the best education in the world for free, and also welfare. They pay your rent, your bills (like electricity and water) and you get 477€ per month to use as you like (for food etc.)

The nordic welfare states amaze me. Our taxes are high as hell too, likely not as high as yours, but compared to the US ours are on another level. We still have to pay for tertiary education, dental/scripts over 18 and under 65, unless you have company insurance. The thing is people are afraid to give money to those who don't work as it will suck workers dry, but it doesn't happen in the nordics. I think it's because people don't willingly choose to not work. Generally, healthy people want to work, it feels good and satisfying to do so.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah the Internet has made isolation more of a viable option, because it's not complete isolation, just physical isolation.

I used to hate alcohol, a half-bottle of brandy at age 14...and the resulting hangover kept me from drinking most of my adult life, but post iboga my brain chemistry was rewired and I do enjoy a cup of port wine from a time to time. They say wine is healthy too, and it feels really good to have some with dinner, or maybe i just feel all sophisticated when I drink my $5 Taylor Port. Who knew?

I didn't realize you had had iboga. I'd like to hear about it, did you write a report I could find somewhere? I have a similar thing with alcohol but it wasn't one experience, it was that from 17-21 almost every time I drank I blacked out. I started blacking out after only 4 or 5 drinks and this one time I got alcohol poisoning (and almost a DUI except for some synchronistic luck). Ever since, I rarely feel good from alcohol, even a tiny bit (like a third of a beer or wine) will make me tired, cranky and annoyed. Every so often I am in an energy state where I know I will have fun and I go for it (like last week - a friend's birthday, being out, being with people, dancing to funk music).

 

[Xorkoth]

The nordic welfare states amaze me. Our taxes are high as hell too, likely not as high as yours, but compared to the US ours are on another level. We still have to pay for tertiary education, dental/scripts over 18 and under 65, unless you have company insurance. The thing is people are afraid to give money to those who don't work as it will suck workers dry, but it doesn't happen in the nordics. I think it's because people don't willingly choose to not work. Generally, healthy people want to work, it feels good and satisfying to do so.

Welfare is a hot-button issue in the US right now. Man is it ever. As is universal health care. It's a huge mess and it's causing an alarming amount of division between the 2 "groups" of people that live here (I say "groups" because the whole 2-party system is just a tool for those in power to create dischord, or at least that's what it's become).

 

[Roger&Me]

It's strange how 2013 seemed to be the crash, burn, transition year for so many in here.

those who know me well know that i'm definitely not a superstitious person. but i can't help but think about all the "predictions" about how the end of 2012 marked some kind of paradigm shift. there definitely was a serious paradigm shift for me, what it means that it happened to coincide with all those predictions floating around is up for interpretation.

makes me think of this particular quote for some reason:

There are stories of coincidence and chance, of intersections and strange things told, and which is which and who only knows? And we generally say, "Well, if that was in a movie, I wouldn't believe it." Someone's so-and-so met someone else's so-and-so and so on. And it is in the humble opinion of this narrator that strange things happen all the time. And so it goes, and so it goes. And like the book says, "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us." -Magnolia

 

[PepperSocks]

Welfare is a hot-button issue in the US right now. Man is it ever. As is universal health care. It's a huge mess and it's causing an alarming amount of division between the 2 "groups" of people that live here (I say "groups" because the whole 2-party system is just a tool for those in power to create dischord, or at least that's what it's become).

I've been watching your messy transition to universal health care. I think it's a natural progression. The massive outrage is going to subside and the way it works for the rest of the world will be more commonly known. The very divisive 2-party system does have an awkwardness to it. They can't seem to agree on anything. A multi-party system works well, this past election the 3rd party up here got a massive boost and is now the opposition party because a large portion of voters didn't like either of the two main parties.

We tend to look up to the way Norway does things. They have a similar resource intensive economy, but they have more extensive universal health care (dental/scripts/etc.), and free tertiary education. We're going in that direction, but there's still other nations we look to for improvements. I wonder if the nordics envy other nations.

"We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us."[/I] -Magnolia

Interesting. Has me thinkin'

 

[xammy]

It's hazy. There was a rule on it, but there was also designated price threads in the regional forums, for the very purpose of discussing prices. I think it's just to keep a non-physical harm of prices from being mixed in with harm reduction forums. I think the social thread is exempt from that rule though, or I think it should be



The nordic welfare states amaze me. Our taxes are high as hell too, likely not as high as yours, but compared to the US ours are on another level. We still have to pay for tertiary education, dental/scripts over 18 and under 65, unless you have company insurance. The thing is people are afraid to give money to those who don't work as it will suck workers dry, but it doesn't happen in the nordics. I think it's because people don't willingly choose to not work. Generally, healthy people want to work, it feels good and satisfying to do so.

Those US medical expenses amaze me. Like thenightwatch couldn't go to doctor because he didnt have insurance when he had those nasty frostbites (how are they now btw if youre reading?). Its making me fucking sad. I remember myself complaining when I had to pay for ambulance once (like 8 euros or something, rofl). But you get like fucking 10 000 dollar bills there for some default medical attention. We get all that shit for free, or just very little payment.

About those high welfares, well, there are very low criminality rate, and very few homeless people etc. So people dont have to rob you for food etc. Also its cheaper to keep people living in some "projects" (is that what you call them there?") than in prison. Prisons are also very high quality here.

But that causes the problem that some people abuse the system. Im in a weird position really, im working as intern now. I would get the same money for staying home and fucking doing drugs everyday than working everyday. The system doesnt have any logic, and for sure doesnt encougare you to work when you can get the same money staying home than working your ass of in some low paying job. But I gotta say that having a some kind of job has really done good for me, its not fun being unemployed for years. It makes you depressed.

 

[PepperSocks]

^ yeah, we never have to wonder what it'll cost us if we have to call 911 or go to the ER, thank god. tnw's experience and the bills people were posting about in here had me feeling so sad. That just ain't right.

We only have to pay for ambulance if it turns out the problem didn't actually require it; to the point it was obvious. The reason for that is that frivolous ambulance calls redirect ambulances from other potentially more serious calls.

Doctors/surgeries/serious stuff is all covered, when under 18 or over 65, all the less serious stuff is covered too.

 

[xammy]

Where do you live PepperSocks?

 

[Roger&Me]

yeah its really terrible, actually. and it doesn't look like obamacare is really that great of a solution. maybe they'll get the issues ironed out, but its doubtful, our politicians are all inept. i'm all for universal healthcare though; we waste so much tax money on stupid stuff, why not cut the stupid spending and put that money towards programs that help people? I just don't understand it. I mean, like does the DEA really need satellites and laser guided anti-aircraft missiles and stuff? can't they settle for non-laser guided missiles like everybody else?

 

[PepperSocks]

Canada, south-eastern Ontario. Wherabouts in Finland are ya? ever see midnight sun?

 

[PepperSocks]

yeah its really terrible, actually. and it doesn't look like obamacare is really that great of a solution. maybe they'll get the issues ironed out, but its doubtful, our politicians are all inept. i'm all for universal healthcare though; we waste so much tax money on stupid stuff, why not cut the stupid spending and put that money towards programs that help people? I just don't understand it. I mean, like does the DEA really need satellites and laser guided anti-aircraft missiles and stuff? can't they settle for non-laser guided missiles like everybody else?

Man, the drug war is FUBAR. If it ended the annual 51 bil can be spent on better things, and the revenue from taxation of drugs will bring even more money for better things.

Health care can be solved by ending the drug war. It sounds overly simple, but I see sense in it.

 

[xammy]

I have only heard good things about Canada, it seems one of the best countries in the world I would live there! How cold is it at winter where you live?

I live in Mid-Finland, havent really seen the midnight sun. That is more common phenomenom in Lapland (Northern Finland).

I love Trailer Park boys, you know that series? you must know lol! I have watched it like 3 times or more. Jim Lahey is the best.

Could this video have been filmed in Canada? I have wondered that the nature looks like Canadian.

 

[PepperSocks]

I have only heard good things about Canada, it seems one of the best countries in the world I would live there! How cold is it at winter where you live?

-30C at the very coldest. Temperatures are very similar to Scandinavia, it was +5C a few days ago, -5C today. Average temp in the middle of winter seems to be -5C. Wisconsin/Minnesota are far colder, it's a myth that Canada is some frozen, barren wasteland.

I love Trailer Park boys, you know that series? you must know lol! I have watched it like 3 times or more. Jim Lahey is the best.

Lol, yeah, trailer park boys is the shit. Haven't watched it in years, but yep, that's us alright

Could this video be filmed in Canada? I have wondered that the nature looks like Canadian.

Yeah, that looks like a typical southern ontario forest/field area. We also have a lot of lakes with granite rock/cliff features. That is likely further north though; there's more coniferous (needle) trees there and the deciduous trees are bigger here.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

A lot of people like Dark Hill better though, it's often the piece I get comments on when people are briefly walking by my market table.

I can see why, it's emotively accessible.

The most I drink on a non-drunken night is 3 beer so I don't get much in the way of health problems, but in order to have beer for later times I can't drink every night.

Even that will give me an anxiety ridden comedown these days.

It's strange how 2013 seemed to be the crash, burn, transition year for so many in here.

Given our activities and at least partial rejection of our nations' cultural values, folks on here are far my likely to crash and burn in any given year than the average person.

Were dirty war mongers who are more interested in building our lives entirely on false things, then forcing those beliefs upon every other human...We've lost the plot big-time, as a world culture I think we're literally insane. Like we're lost in a terrible, bad trip.

People have been saying this through all of recorded history. I'm not buying it. Would you rather be stuck with the problems of today or the 19th century (or 15th, or what have you)?

The very divisive 2-party system does have an awkwardness to it. They can't seem to agree on anything. A multi-party system works well, this past election the 3rd party up here got a massive boost and is now the opposition party because a large portion of voters didn't like either of the two main parties.

Even within a two party system, each party has a spectrum of different stances within it. The struggle between the Tea Party and establishment/business-oriented wing of the GOP is getting a lot of media attention these days. Under a proportionally representative electoral system, these factions would likely split into two different parties. IMO most [American] opponents of our winner take all system (which naturally leads to only two big parties) have an argument that amounts to: "My fringe views are not represented in a government based upon majority rule, therefore the government is broken and corrupt!"