• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ
  • PD Moderators: Esperighanto | JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

☮ Social ☮ PD Social Thread: N-Dimensional Funhouse of Possibilities

all this tryptamine talk is making me excited to try the 4-HO-MiPT that i just acquired :) idk when i'll have a chance to, though... been super busy lately.
 
Goddess Mode said:
Is there any reason to believe that 4-AcO tryptamines would not cause the blood-brain barrier well? My understanding was that if anything they should cross it more readily. I know that this is at least known for a fact to be the case when going from 5-HO-DMT to 5-AcO-DMT. Kinetics may be a factor as well, but I would bet money that that's not the only thing happening.... I've taken a few different psychedelics by multiple routes of administration, including DMT, and for me no matter how different the experience is it's always been recognizable as the same psychedelic. But the beginning of 4-AcO-DMT and mushrooms for me are as different as night and day. There's no way in hell I could mistake one for the other. However, I could easily mistake 4-AcO-DMT for DMT, but I also seriously doubt that I could mix up DMT and mushrooms. This leads me to believe that there is much more than just a kinetic difference.
Click to expand...

5-AcO-DMT is not really a thing, I think you mean 5-MeO-DMT. This difference is important / relevant because MeO, methoxy is an ether group which compared to a hydroxy is less polar, since it is a methyl put on the hydroxy covering / shielding it basically and methyl is non-polar. Still, it doesn't remove the fact that there is an ogygen there which has electron pairs bulking from it, and that is a polar thing.

With AcO, acetyl, its different. It is an ester, there is an extra oxygen on that which is not even protonated... And that is added on top of the oxygen present already. it is quite polar indeed I think, the fact that there is also a non-polar part to the acetoxy does not shield or compensate AFAIK.

I just seem to remember reading that 4-AcO-DMT probably does not pass the BBB all too well and I guess the extra polar stuff is the reason.

I must add though that despite the chemistry differences I just mentioned, they might not have the consequences I am talking about - I am not really sure about that is what I am saying.
Read some more though: polar molecules are prevented or delayed from passing the BBB, if you check some molecules you will see that they are 'economical' with their polarity and exposure (shielded or not) of it.




Whew! I had some homebrewed (by a friend who came for dinner) beer which is like an unfiltered lager+wheat type beer flavored with cilantro and orange peel and it is really super tasty. Actually there used to be a type of beer available to buy years ago which I LOVED but they stopped selling it, and it is flavored just about the same way so it is awesome to be able to drink it again!!

I was sorta planning on starting a brew today myself here with that friend, but it is getting postponed till next week.

After this brew I plan on testing something my dad asked me to try which is to make beer with wormwood (which is in absinthe) as the bittering agent instead of hops... though hops also do something with the sugars so I would have to find a solution to that..

I wonder what I will be flavoring my own brew with.
 
Last edited:
Solipsis said:
5-AcO-DMT is not really a thing, I think you mean 5-MeO-DMT. This difference is important / relevant because MeO, methoxy is an ether group which compared to a hydroxy is less polar, since it is a methyl put on the hydroxy covering / shielding it basically and methyl is non-polar. Still, it doesn't remove the fact that there is an ogygen there which has electron pairs bulking from it, and that is a polar thing.

With AcO, acetyl, its different. It is an ester, there is an extra oxygen on that which is not even protonated... And that is added on top of the oxygen present already. it is quite polar indeed I think, the fact that there is also a non-polar part to the acetoxy does not shield or compensate AFAIK.

I just seem to remember reading that 4-AcO-DMT probably does not pass the BBB all too well and I guess the extra polar stuff is the reason.

I must add though that despite the chemistry differences I just mentioned, they might not have the consequences I am talking about - I am not really sure about that is what I am saying.
Read some more though: polar molecules are prevented or delayed from passing the BBB, if you check some molecules you will see that they are 'economical' with their polarity and exposure (shielded or not) of it.
Click to expand...

Nah, I'm definitely talking about 5-AcO-DMT, which is a real thing. Here's an Erowid link to a paper that talks about it being synthesized and tested: click.

5AcO-DMT is of particular interest since its lipid solubility characteristics should permit it to cross the blood brain baarrier where by the action of tissue esterase it could give rise to 5HO-DMT (bufotenine) a compound which would otherwise not be expected to enter the nervous system too readily. Accordingly, an attempt was made to establish the dose-response curve for the behavioral effects of this compound. Thus, the effect of several doses of 5-acetoxy-N:N-dimethyltryptamine was investigated, using again a Latin-square experimental design (N = 6: 6 animals x 5 dose levels and saline). The conditioned avoidance response failure frequencies were converted first into percentage of total responses possible in the experimental period and then into probit units. The resulting regression line was calculated by the method of Finney and is shown in Fig. 1. Analysis of variance shows that there is significant regression. Interestingly, even 5 micromoles/kg, the lowest dose given, differed from saline in its behavioral effects at the 0.01 level of significance.
Click to expand...

That paper gives data on a few other tryptamines as well, including 5-HO-DMT for comparison. Supposedly there is a follow-up paper by at least one of the same researchers which verifies that 5-AcO-DMT hydrolizes into 5-HO-DMT, but I haven't been able to find it online. I was however able to find this paper (abstract only unfortunately) which claims that O-acetylserotonin is hydrolized by acetylcholinesterase and butyrylcholinesterase, so I'd believe it.

Doesn't really say anything for sure about 4-AcO-DMT, and I can't pretend to know anything about polarity and stuff in this case, but it does support this for 5-AcO-DMT at least.
 
In the case of psilocybin to psilocin, this saponification is essential for activity, as the phosphate ester is far too polar to get across the blood-brain barrier. But this problem need not exist with the acetate ester. I have explored the 4-hydroxy-DET but I am more familiar with the 4-hydroxy-DIPT. It is of a rather rapid onset implying possible absorption directly from the stomach. However, in a group study with the corresponding ester 4-AcO-DIPT, we felt that it had an even faster onset and perhaps a increased potency. This would suggest that it might be considered an active drug in its own right rather than simply a precursor to the active drug 4-HO-DIPT."
Click to expand...

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_acetoxy_det/4_acetoxy_det_article1.shtml

Hmm

this, and the 5-AcO being mentioned as fat soluble (I had not heard about other AcO's, still by not a thing I meant that it is not used by people and very rarely mentioned probably), and Xorkoth plus this quote saying that a 4-AcO tryptamine acts fast goes pretty much against what I thought I knew about the compounds.
I guess sometimes things turn out to be way different than you thought.

And I guess I did misremember the thing about esters and the BBB. It would make sense, a lot of drugs are esterified to enhance pharmacological properties just like heroin is the double acetoxy ester of morphine. But I still thought that was pharmacokinetics stuff and the active wouldn't really mainly be heroin itself. Indeed apparently one of the mono acetoxy esters is the sweet stuff, but I guess it still does pass the BBB first.

There are apparently plenty of esterases in the body - blood, the hydrolyse of the tryptamine esters is assumed by many, but it is still interesting to see if the parent esters are centrally active.
 
Yeah, 4-AcO-DMT lasts 2, 2.5 hours maximum (orally ) for me, and feels like slowed down smoked DMT 100%, while pure 4-HO-DMT lasts for at least 4 hours total. I realize that for a lot of people 4-AcO-DMT lasts substantially longer and is quite mushroom-like, I wish it affected me that way actually, but it doesn't
 
Made a fridge magnet poem for PD:

NSFW:

psypoem.jpg

 
Yeah, 4-AcO-DMT lasts 2, 2.5 hours maximum (orally ) for me, and feels like slowed down smoked DMT 100%, while pure 4-HO-DMT lasts for at least 4 hours total. I realize that for a lot of people 4-AcO-DMT lasts substantially longer and is quite mushroom-like, I wish it affected me that way actually, but it doesn't
 
Solipsis said:
https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/4_acetoxy_det/4_acetoxy_det_article1.shtml

Hmm

this, and the 5-AcO being mentioned as fat soluble (I had not heard about other AcO's, still by not a thing I meant that it is not used by people and very rarely mentioned probably), and Xorkoth plus this quote saying that a 4-AcO tryptamine acts fast goes pretty much against what I thought I knew about the compounds.
I guess sometimes things turn out to be way different than you thought.

And I guess I did misremember the thing about esters and the BBB. It would make sense, a lot of drugs are esterified to enhance pharmacological properties just like heroin is the double acetoxy ester of morphine. But I still thought that was pharmacokinetics stuff and the active wouldn't really mainly be heroin itself. Indeed apparently one of the mono acetoxy esters is the sweet stuff, but I guess it still does pass the BBB first.

There are apparently plenty of esterases in the body - blood, the hydrolyse of the tryptamine esters is assumed by many, but it is still interesting to see if the parent esters are centrally active.
Click to expand...

Hehe, yeah I was thinking about mentioning heroin too, but I honestly don't know enough about chemistry to have been sure about whether or not the same situation would apply just because of that. I had a hunch, though. What I can say about the 4-AcO-DMT too is that it also kicked in at least as fast for me as mushrooms, if not faster, and I usually chew those up pretty well as opposed to just swallowing this powder.

As for being able to say whether or not it's truly active on its own, of course I couldn't tell you for certain, but I am as absolutely sure as I could possibly be without seeing the scientific research done with my own eyes.... It's really nothing like mushrooms at all for me at the beginning, and I've heard enough about people comparing other 4-HO an 4-AcO tryptamines to believe that this is the case for them as well.

I found this paper when I was researching as well and thought it was pretty interesting.

Bufotenine (5-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine) has been reported to be behaviorally inactive or only very weakly active in man and animals; this may be a consequence of its low partition coefficient and resultant inabbility to penetrate the blood-brain barrier. The acetyl, propionyl, butyryl, isobutyryl, and pivalyl esters of bufotenine were prepared for future pharmacological evaluation. Unexpectedly, it was found that all of these esters possess a relatively high affinity for the serotonin receptors of the isolated rat stomach fundus preparation. A semiquanititative chromatographic measurement of ester hydrolysis suggests that extensive hydrolysis of the esters to bufotenine does not occur under the conditions of the affinity assay.
Click to expand...

So, that would seem to suggest that at least those 5-HO-DMT esters are active in and of themselves, so I would imagine that they should or at least could have central effects of their own if they do get into the brain before they're hydrolized, as they supposedly do. Once again though, it doesn't necessarily have to apply to 4-AcO tryptamines.... Like for example, it occurs to me that 5-MeO tryptamines are already known to be active anyway, but 4-MeO-MiPT seems to be mostly a dud, so extending the 4 position in this case might not be as useful either, though 4-MeO-DMT is supposed to be an active psychedelic so it could just be that it doesn't quite as well specifically in the MiPT's case....

So much to think about~ <3

Xorkoth said:
Yeah, 4-AcO-DMT lasts 2, 2.5 hours maximum (orally ) for me, and feels like slowed down smoked DMT 100%, while pure 4-HO-DMT lasts for at least 4 hours total. I realize that for a lot of people 4-AcO-DMT lasts substantially longer and is quite mushroom-like, I wish it affected me that way actually, but it doesn't
Click to expand...

That was about what I noticed too. I started writing my trip report at T+3:05 lol. By then I was pretty much in a nice afterglow, still sort of feeling something like psilocin but as I said earlier feeling pretty sober by comparison to the beginning of the trip. I'm actually pretty happy with the way 4-AcO-DMT effects me though, there are plenty of mushroom-like drugs I can take including mushrooms themselves.... 4-AcO-DMT seems much more unique for me in this way. It's sort of like my answer to saying I would like DMT better if I could take it orally. And as I said before, it makes me way more excited for other 4-AcO tryptamines. Like, 4-HO-MiPT is already similar to mushrooms for me, so I'd be pretty happy if 4-AcO-MiPT was more similar to 4-AcO-DMT instead.
 
Solipsis said:
Why do you maybe not wanna do that again? Was it overly intense, or is there something else 'off' about it?
Click to expand...

It it was similar to what I experienced last night. It's so intense that it feels like a k-hole (in that I am not aware of my body), but it's not powerful enough to take me all the way there. E.g. last night I went to the bathroom & while in there I started laughing & all the sounds I was making became incredibly distorted, electronic, & kinda crackly, so to speak. I was stuck for what seemed like 10 minutes in a fit of laughter. When I made it back to my room (which is right next to the bathroom), it reminded my of 2-3rd plateau dxm trips. Keeping the doses small, though, would probably be rather tolerable. Just have a bed nearby to collapse on! I also don't want to IV this solution because it has turned from dark brown to an almost obsidian colour. I haven't been preserving it well.

Last night was by far the most intense trip that I've had; I kept switching between the greatest euphoria I've ever felt & being completely unable to make heads or tails of anything at all, including how the days of the week functioned. I ended up taking 100mg seroquel between hours 4 & 5. It took me about 30 min to even decipher that the pill had SEROQUEL 50 MG on it.

Nice poem & beer btw!
 
^^ I think I'm failing to find the part of that that would make you not want to repeat it, haha. I actually feel even more encouraged to IV it after reading that.
 
Xorkoth said:
Yeah, 4-AcO-DMT lasts 2, 2.5 hours maximum (orally ) for me, and feels like slowed down smoked DMT 100%, while pure 4-HO-DMT lasts for at least 4 hours total. I realize that for a lot of people 4-AcO-DMT lasts substantially longer and is quite mushroom-like, I wish it affected me that way actually, but it doesn't
Click to expand...
This could have to do with different batches. A recent batch has tested positive for psilocin.
 
I'm laying in bed in Page, AZ. I wanted to stay up and party tonight but my brother decided he's tired... We played a bunch of music and hung out but it's only 10:30 here. Oh well, tomorrow is Zion national park. The Grand Canyon was incredible.

We've discovered that my sister's relatively new husband is a really uptight control freak, it's kind of pissing us off, I hope he chills out. He kinda took it upon himself to plan everything, rent the vehicle so only he and my sister can drive. And he's being a schedule nazi. Like today we left at 4:45am and ended up with hours with nothing to do because we couldn't check into it hotel until 3. He just gets it in his head that we are going to do something and if t deviates he gets super uncomfortable. It's clearly stressing my sister out a bunch. Like this morning my mom went off to a short hike my herself after we all went and after a while I went after her and found her crying. I have her a hug and talked to her and she was freaking out about my dad (who has a terminal illness and is close to totally disabled now). We spent about 20 minutes talking about it and then I started making her laugh to get her mind off it which worked. Then my sister's husband comes around telling is about how we're "late" and need to get moving right now. I was just like, fuck you dude, get your head pulled out of your tight asshole and remove the stick while you're at it (I didn't say it though, don't want to put my sister in a worse place). Like, this is all of our vacation, not yours alone. Plus, he already went to see all this stuff with his family like 2 years ago. I don't think he means to be selfish but he just has no concept of anything but his own narrow view.

Whew... Good to get that out. :). Hope you all are doing well
 
Maybe if you make a nice bed of ashes and herbs to prevent molten liquid DMT from seeping through? Not sure if the glass was made for using as a glass dick but you could try vaping any dripped DMT from the bottom if that happens.

Also the second screen before the straw... maybe that condenses some of the vapor... Though maybe it is necessary to prevent you from inhaling too hot DMT fume droplets.
 
Yea its supposed to be a vaporizer pipe and the herb is meant to put on the glass so yeah as a glass dick. I was thinking if i put the dmt powder in there and heat it, i only have 50mg of dmt and dont want to waste it
 
That pipe looks fine-

I may be fucked in the head but I only ever smoke DMT from a bong and get fantastic results from it :)

YMMV.
 
willow11 said:
That pipe looks fine-

I may be fucked in the head but I only ever smoke DMT from a bong and get fantastic results from it :)

YMMV.
Click to expand...

For me it has never failed while sprinkled on top of a layer of weed and then maybe with an additional tiny pinch of weed on top to kind of sandwich the DMT in between for good measures, all of this done through a bubbler. Like this:
Colour-Changing-Glass-Bubbler-red.jpg

I really pride myself on knowing how to harness the hit though.
I couldn't picture a bong to NOT work, if I can get a bubbler to do the trick every time.

If only I had some DMT right now I would love to blast some through my bong for a change.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top