☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread: Somatic Swirly Sepia Summer Sausage Stage Set Suppository

[psy997]

Yea Creamy - I'm gonna shorten it to that - Texas has the best local burn scene out of any state, Burning Flipside being the biggest burn in the US after the big kahuna at Black Rock. I've only been to Flipside once but it was absolutely amazing. The only downside is after attending a burn regular festivals are never the same, they just can't compare. Burning Flipside is an hour East of Austin every Memorial Day weekend. FreezerBurn is around that same area every February. Myschievia is up North around the DFW area I don't know when. Burnt Soup is really small but cool every Labor Day weekend. Then I think there's another small one in Corpus Christi too? We have a big and great scene here dude.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I never knew how to get into that shit. I honestly didn't know what the term 'burn' meant till just recently. I'm excited to go and experience one!

To be quite frank, going to something like that intimidates me unless I have people to go with. I never got into Renfest till I moved back here and started going yearly with people who have a large group.

 

[psy997]

If I'm still in Texas in May you should come to Flipside with my friends and I then. I'd say lets do FreezerBurn but there's already 200 people on the ticket fairy list and I'm not even sure who all I know that's going.

 

[SKL]

Burning Man was always too bourgeois for me and carried a lot of weird ideological (an extremely ambivalent relationship with capitalism, among other things) and occultic undercurrents, the resemblance to Bohemian Grove, Moloch-worship, etc. is unsettling. Not to mention just a lot of New Age bullshit and total banal art (of the sensibility that "anyone can be an artist, unleash your creativity", this producing some of the worst. But a lot of actual artists who are involved are pretty banal too [Alex Gray is their prince-regent.]) Further discussion, including how the Silicon Valley subspecies of BoBo, perhaps among my least favorite type of person in the world, are commonly to be found there. No thanks. Also the drugs, as a rule, were better at Grateful Dead-oriented festivals, but this may have changed in light of the sea-changes in the niché psychedelic economy brought upon by the beginning of open consumer-oriented "darkweb sites." Which is another thing that really pisses me off so I think not.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I'm not about to drive out to Nevada, but if there's something similar that's closer and affordable, I'd at least like to try it.

It is weird though how the people who go out to Nevada are the types who will spend thousands on such things; accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc. I find it very odd, but I suppose that's what the event is structured around - excess.

 

[TheAppleCore]

Okay, I could Google it and pretend that I knew all along, but, I'd prefer to ask here... what is a burn?

SKL's post earlier made me realize that not a single person on here would know if I passed. Not plannin' on doin' that soon, but still... interesting thought.

Same here. I would tell my friends and family to announce TheAppleCore's passing on BL, but due to legal reasons I want to preserve the anonymity of this particular online identity. Anyway, if I stop posting for like a year straight without any advanced notice, that probably means I kicked the can. I don't think that's happening anytime soon, though. I feel like I've still got a good couple decades' worth of tomfoolery left in me. :D

I always knew that I wouldn't be ready to be a father in years but after visiting my girlfriend and seeing her children I'm not sure if I will ever be. I can't fathom the strength of being a parent, constant worrying about your child etc. The utmost respect to her and all good parents in the world. I appreciate my mother so much for raising 2 boys alone. And I appreciate my life being so easy so much more than before.

I sympathize with that sentiment. The idea of being responsible for children is terrifying... but then again, investing your energy in anything worthwhile -- whether it's children, a career, or even a relationship -- is inherently stressful, because it always involves the risk of failure. And, I think it's somewhat of a choice to live in fear of losing what we have, or gratitude that we ever had it to begin with.

I think it might be an exciting challenge to raise a family to carry on the beacon of radiant swirly life-energy that I have cultivated for myself over the years... but only after I've got my career well underway.

What do some of you other younger Bluelighters think about the topic of children? Do you seem them in your future?

 

[SKL]

I'm not about to drive out to Nevada, but if there's something similar that's closer and affordable, I'd at least like to try it.

It is weird though how the people who go out to Nevada are the types who will spend thousands on such things; accountants, lawyers, doctors, etc. I find it very odd, but I suppose that's what the event is structured around - excess.

Why do people even more powerful than them, including the late and much-esteemed Dr. Shulgin, go to shit like Bohemian Grove?

It's a cult, of one kind or another; or at the very least, a ritual, a sort of katharsis that people join in together to gain some sort of group activity. It's not a festival like the music- or drug-oriented festivals many of us are familiar with. It's a lot weirder than that as far as I can ascertain and involves a lot of cultic and indoctrinatory type stuff, they even talk about having "decompression parties" because the experience was so "transformative." Anyone who knows about "self-help" cults that sprung from things like EST (also popular with doctors, lawyers, etc. but generally without the drugs; the drugs will make it even more dangerous) should see the alarm bells ringing.

Some prominent names who are involved are very, very bad people involved in doing and propagating very, very bad things and truly wicked ideologies, I'm thinking of a lot of the tech CEOs here; some of them known to me to one degree or another, like our own alasdairm and the Erowids, are pretty benign, although I don't really like the aesthetics or the metapolitics involved.

But inevitably (as I was asked in the other thread I linked), someone will say, "we'll I've been to Burning Man, and it was a transformative experience for me, and you haven't, and you don't know what you're talking about.")

Scientologists and the like say this all the time about "auditing" and that shit kills and has a really evil agenda to spread to the world.

No thanks and advise everyone to stay away.

 

[psy997]

SKL if I asked you to elaborate even further would you be willing to spend the time to do so?

I'd like to hear more on your views of the negative side of it. I've all but worshipped the burner community since attending Burning Flipside a year and a half ago, have never heard anyone with the sentiments you hold, and would really like to hear more of your criticisms. After my DPT trip last weekend that shattered everything I can see now why you would call it cultish in the sense of it's overwhelmingly gravitational collective energy, yet I'm not sure I would go as far as you are? It is most definitely a haven for the bullshit side of new-age spirituality that spouts love is all you need, everything is love, etc. without any acknowledgment of the negative/evil/what have you in the world, which further promulgates delusion. But I'm not sure it's to be all together avoided and cast down upon.

 

[SKL]

I would go so far as to say Satanically influenced, especially given the people who are involved (people at Google and other now-more-powerful-than-governments Silicon Valley CEOs) now, and so on; remember, the whole acid culture was influenced from the very first beginnings in the Americas by the C.I.A. and other IC and covert orgs as well as occult (Crowlyean-style) movements and organizations, they had a part even in the Grateful Dead and the attendant subculture, but that's just a flintlock musket to the cultural hydrogen bomb that these people really want to shape their New World Order into. Burning Man is a sort of open-invitation Bohemian Grove, inviting mainly bourgeois hedonists, but has a much darker undercurrent (a dark undercurrent is present as well in the lot scene but that's mainly just drug trafficking and the occasional occult shit, but stuff like Rainbow Gatherings and ayahuasca tourism can be really dangerous, I've heard from reliable sources very credible tales involving demonization and stuff like that.) And that undercurrent has the potential to suck people into it's undertow, I guess, what you'd say "gravitational collective energy," but it's moving in synchrony with some of the most despicable trends in our culture and world right now, without a doubt.

I would and will elaborate further but lack the time at present, but trust me, it is something that really scares me; if I have to pick three things that scare me, it'd probably be Silicon Valley, Scientology, and the various modern-day forms of ritualized spiritual hedonism and particularly reënacted Moloch-worship as in Burning Man and it's analogues and antecedents which would include a lot of the latter-day aspects of the psychedelic culture, including neo-shamanism and so forth, as well as particularly as I've said the (also seemingly Moloch-influenced) Bohemian Grove and what not, and even Sasha's involvement with all that, and the conspiracy theories about DEA production quotas on DOx precursors, and so forth, who knows, shit gets really far out, really quick. Attend a festival, even a heady happy one with good music and a low key drug element, in the light of day, and at night it's something totally different. There is definite malign preternaturality in the scene.

I don't say so to discount psychedelics entirely as potential therapeutic agents or as recreation, but to express some real terror at some of the trends that they've created in subcultures and even in general culture. Think of all of these people as potential Charlie Mansons. Alex Gray and his cult/Waco compound in Westchester, for example, is scary as hell and even when he was in the city the place was somewhere that even on a "vibratory" level, and I don't even believe in that shit, I could feel the fundamental spiritual darkness, emptiness, and wickedness inherent in the place. It's hard to express without coming across as a bit nuts, and I hope to express it a bit in some of my writings, and maybe a bit more here since you've asked, but a lot of this shit is really, really, genuinely and for real dangerous, mind, body and spirit. This is a real spiritual evil that has existed since mankind was in our infancy, and there is a real spiritual battle going on for our future and our individual souls, and these things really do have an impact.

The drugs, if anything, make us more open to malign preternaturalities and perhaps to some kinds of healing as well, but the state of "openness" as by various occult rituals as well as by drugs is a very dangerous one especially when in occult contexts, much like the Ouija boards and trance states and seances/medium sessions and suchlike which have been tied again and again to demonizations and scary preternatural phenomena.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

[...] Bohemian Grove and what not, and even Sasha's involvement with all that, and the conspiracy theories about DEA production quotas on DOx precursors, and so forth, who knows, shit gets really far out, really quick.

I'm curious about this; I just read a bit about Bohemian Grove and it creeped me out, specifically the owl statue mascot there... The owls are not what they seem. But, what exactly is this precursor production conspiracy you speak of?

Okay, I could Google it and pretend that I knew all along, but, I'd prefer to ask here... what is a burn?

I'm not entirely certain, to me it looks like something between a musical festival and some sort of evangelical gathering. That's why I wana attend one at least once, the mystique surrounding the phenomenon has piqued my curiosity.

What do some of you other younger Bluelighters think about the topic of children? Do you seem them in your future?

My girlfriend has told me many times that she never wants kids. For a while I was okay with it, and again now as I see myself incapable of ever financially supporting a child the way my offspring would deserve. I feel that child rearing is the purest form of creation; a molding of consciousness and an attempt at immortality. It is this that draws me to parenthood... then I consider the costs and sacrifices all committed parents must make for their children, both financially and physically, and I suddenly realize that I'm not sure I could ever handle it. Mostly, it's financial. Parents don't have sports cars or live in nice places or, for that matter, have any personal time, because they commit it all to work and child rearing. "I'm just not ready to be that miserable yet."

 

[Xorkoth]

Regarding children, I feel conflicted about that. During most of my twenties I thought to myself that I definitely wanted to have 2 of them someday, I always thought my 35. Now I'm 33 and I'm not sure. My girlfriend isn't sure either. She has been tracking her cycle so we only use condoms for some part of the month, so I could get her pregnant, haven't yet though and we're not dumb about it. Not sure what we would want to do if it happened. I definitely love my life how it is, I'm not really into the idea of totally restructuring it to focus on a child. At the same time, I love kids, and I think I'd make a great human and be a good parent, plus I think reproducing is one of the most fundamental aspects of life, I think I would probably feel like I was missing out on something when I got older if I never had any. And honestly I am at a place in my life where I COULD support a child. I just like living my life for me.

Basically, I have no idea.

Regarding the burn scene, I've never been to one. There's one around where I live and I've heard it's really fun, people say they like it better than burning man (probably mostly because it's in a mountain temperature rainforest paradise instead of a desert). I am personally attracted to moderately-sized music festivals and there are some around here I have nothing but good things to say about... for some people they're just about drugs and drug dealing but for me they're about music and companionship, and living for a weekend in a different way. I find them to be beautiful experiences. I'd probably go to a burn if I ever feel like it, I dislike how expensive they tend to be, for me I get to go to a lot of music festivals for free because my good friend's band plays at them and he puts me on the VIP list. I have a hard time believing there is anything Satanic about burns, certainly some of them have gotten pretty bourgeois which I'm not really into, and in general festivals have started to become big business but they're not all like that. I don't believe there is some spiritual war for our souls or that Satan is a real thing nor do I believe in the Christian god though, so we're coming from different places there.

In other news, good golly did I have a great weekend. Just... perfect.

 

[psy997]

SKL, I really would like for you to expand more when you have the time. None of what you've said strikes me as too far out there or outlandish. I very much see the conflict between good and evil, light and dark, service to others and service to self, etc. I'd also be interested in why you see Scientology as being so scary. As I'm in agreement in regards to how fucked up it is, yet not seeing the possibility it has of spreading, especially considering the fucked up shit already going on in world government, international tribunals, etc. I'd also like to hear more about Sasha's involvement in said circles, as well as moloch-worship. As I said, none of this is near the edge of where I perceive reality to be, but it's stuff I'm not aware of at all. Even links, articles, references, etc. would be appreciated.

Also, I'm currently reading the why rich people love burning man thread you linked for reference.

I'm not entirely certain, to me it looks like something between a musical festival and some sort of evangelical gathering. That's why I wana attend one at least once, the mystique surrounding the phenomenon has piqued my curiosity.

It's not so much a mix between a music festival and an evangelical gathering, there's no overt religious or spiritual overtones, but more of a festival that instead of being focused on performing artists is focused on everyone. One of the main tenants is that there are no observers, only participants. It's very much based on artistic and creative expression, attendees coming together and having theme camps ala In Queso Emergency (which has chips and chile con queso always available all weekend), and more that I was going to write but honestly that one gets the point across. It's a super eclectic, open, and accepting place. There's sex camps at Flipside, a camp that had a huge covered cuddle puddle area with tons of pillows and similar where you could just go lay and be with others. On and on. Everyone writes things they want to let go of on the effigy that ends up burning. It's really cool, although again, I do see now the negativity that can and most likely does pervade the scene.

 

[swilow]

I like the sound of a sex camp. I feel like making lewd tent related jokes but really cannot think of any.

I have a bit of an aversion to the psychedelic sub-culture as I've seen it manifested. It often seemed trite to me, and sort of fake. I've certainly picked up unsettling and exclusive vibes in this scene. Something mindless about the repetition of new age, hippie, stoner, ultra-idealistic themes. I cannot handle most new age ideas, I am extremely sceptical towards religious and spiritual thought and never really found I could have a good conversation with a free-minded hippie if I questioned the origin of their claims about, say, crystal healing or the power uncondintional and universal love. I recall abandoning hippie dress and getting something of a hard time from a group of dancers at one party. It was partially in fun, partially a group of 4-5 strange girls wondering why I looked so mean presumably because I wasn't dressed in the same flowery style as them. It felt really strange and these girls wouldn't leave me alone even after I tried to steal their shoes. I found it interesting to ask them why they were being so materialistic but the shoes were expensive! I think a well dressed hippie needs to spend hundreds on an outfit.

Anyway, no offense to the chilled and hairy folks, I still partially identify as one, but I cannot relate to much of what the full on folks say, so I opted out. I would much rather take my hallucinongens in a calm and gentle setting, with Miss Swilow and maybe a friend or two just real-axing and sailing under the starry eyelid sky. I guess I am getting old...

 

[Bella Figura]

I know what you mean about the psychedelic sub-culture. People who tend to repeat verbatim anything that came out of Leary, Ram Dass and Mckenna's lips as gospel - or who go full blown Shpongle (As i like to call it :D).

I like to retain a degree of skepticism and cynicism about things rather than act as if I'm enlightened in some way - if anything psychedelics have been a humbling experience that remind me just how little I know. It's a lesson in modesty.

Nothing wrong with getting older and wiser and having your own opinions / drawing your own conclusions

 

[swilow]

Anyone else get totally lost in SKL's parenthetical maze? I swear, there are brackets closing things that were never opened.

 

[Help?!?!]

Anyone else get totally lost in SKL's parenthetical maze? I swear, there are brackets closing things that were never opened.

Yes, was tripping pretty hard, and was trying to skim through it. Did not work well....

 

[Crashing]

In a nutshell, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

I like to retain a degree of skepticism and cynicism about things rather than act as if I'm enlightened in some way - if anything psychedelics have been a humbling experience that remind me just how little I know. It's a lesson in modesty.

This is the ultimate lesson to be learned from psychs in my book; just how little you truly know. Being humble and modest is a great character trait to strive towards IMO. I find in psychedelic circles that I meet a lot of the 'headier than thou' types, the 'awake/asleep' types, and the 'humbler than thou' types even. I try to be a fly on the wall at such gatherings, I listen but I keep my input minimal. Often I find myself as a guide during trips though and that can get weird for me. When you invite everyone to the beach and feed em acid, they start to look to you for answers. I usually try to convince them to find their own, mostly so I can stand in the ocean undisturbed and take in the beauty of the world without their incessant jabbering and fussing

In other news, I'm spending my birthday filling out job applications. Nothing like being a starving 24 year old to really put things into perspective. People are more excited about my birthday than I am... now that's a first.

Anyone else get totally lost in SKL's parenthetical maze? I swear, there are brackets closing things that were never opened.

I think SKL has said before that he uses a dictating app on his phone or something, which could account for discrepancies. Either that or he's a true beatnik and doesn't know it yet he is on the beat! Dig that cool cat! %)

I'm reading On the Road by Kerouac at the moment, so I'm getting pretty into the beatnik lingo and jazz right now 8)

 

[swilow]

On the Road was great. I could not stomach anything else that I read by Kerouac, but I loved On The Road.

Whatever you do, do not ruin it by watching the fucking movie with Kristen Stewart. It should have been outlawed, it is utterly terrible.

I struggle quite a bit with the beat gen writers. I've tried to read Howl by Ginsberg and it left me cold. I enjoyed Junkie by William Burroughs but thought that Naked Lunch was impenetrable nonsense. Perhaps I am simply uncultured. Probably.

I think my favorite author from the 60's is Ken Kesey, but my favorite almost mythical figure is/was Neal Cassady. Interesting guy to me.

I know what you mean about the psychedelic sub-culture. People who tend to repeat verbatim anything that came out of Leary, Ram Dass and Mckenna's lips as gospel - or who go full blown Shpongle (As i like to call it :D).

Nice post Bella, totally agreed. I think there is immense value in psychedelics but I don't identify it as the values implied by people like McKenna and Leary. These drugs won't change the world, and it puts a burdensome onus on them to do so and fail as they inevitably will. I like that McKenna was able to articulately and in a very compelling manner examine some incredibly out-there themese (True Hallucinations is one hell of a book) but I think there is a whole heap of unfounded assertion at the basis of his views. I like Be Here Now, and can appreciate that Ram Dass moved away from tripping towards more conventional spirutality, and I find such a move interesting. Leary was also interesting to me, I find the idea of him being 40 before his real life and 'fame' begun intriguing. I don't value much of what he derived from the psychedelic experience. I think we should be appreciative of what these 'great figures' did in their proto-exploration of the tripping state, but I don't think we should revere them or give their views greater weight then deserved simply because of their fame.

 

[swilow]

Are all you American loudmouths going to be voting? Please do not let that awful man win this. Please, the fate of the world rests on you, do not fail all 7 billion of us, no pressure but do not fail or we will all die screaming.