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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Talk Thread: Somatic Swirly Sepia Summer Sausage Stage Set Suppository

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It's my birthday today and I can't help but feel there's no cause to celebrate considering all the chaos happening at Standing Rock, what looks to be a worldwide child pedophilia ring being run through Washington and government officials, and all the countless other monstrosities going on at the moment. It's a weird one, that's for sure.
- Feels like our human "life spiral" is getting tighter as more and more information is being revealed. Its time we all should pause with our personal concerns and think about what are we doing, and whether are we really making conscious decisions or being lazy and comfortable, letting anyone with a hunger and energy for power to become our "leaders". Let's think for ourselves and always question authority! And don't let the world news bring you down! :p
Have a very Happy Birthday! :D
 
Don't worry
(About the state of the world)
It's always been this bad
(Or worse)
You just know more about it now
(Or think you do)
Enjoy your birthday, your life
(Do you)
 
- Feels like our human "life spiral" is getting tighter as more and more information is being revealed. Its time we all should pause with our personal concerns and think about what are we doing, and whether are we really making conscious decisions or being lazy and comfortable, letting anyone with a hunger and energy for power to become our "leaders". Let's think for ourselves and always question authority! And don't let the world news bring you down! :p
Have a very Happy Birthday! :D

Don't worry
(About the state of the world)
It's always been this bad
(Or worse)
You just know more about it now
(Or think you do)
Enjoy your birthday, your life
(Do you)

Agreed. The best thing you can realistically do for the world unless you get really involved in something that helps a small population of people is to live your own life in the most positive and joyful way possible. Because then you can make everyone's life who you touch a little better with your presence and energy.

And yeah, the primary reason everything seems so much worse now is because unlike at any other time in history, we are made aware of the whole world all at once. There's always been horrible things happening to people in the world, but you didn't used to be able to know about much outside of your own immediate world. Now all the bad (not all but plenty of it) is reported on and you can take it all in at once, and bad news sells headlines better than good news so the focus is placed on the bad. So it seems like everything is shit, but there is a whole lot of great stuff too, a lot of happy people living peaceful lives, probably more than there has been at nearly any other point in history. Focusing on the negative is a trap, an easy one to fall into but a trap nonetheless. That everything is worse than ever is but an illusion. <3

Being preoccupied with the evils of the world accomplishes nothing but decreasing your own quality of life. Focus on building a positive personal world for yourself, and enjoy it. Love people and do things that make you happy, and life can be grand.
 
Don't worry
(About the state of the world)
It's always been this bad
(Or worse)
You just know more about it now
(Or think you do)
Enjoy your birthday, your life
(Do you)

We got a regular Cat Stevens over here.
 
I dunno, I think the world is in a pretty dark place right now and getting worse. It seems that everyone says that about their times though...

I have basically no hope for the future of our species but I still have hopes for my own life.
 
I dunno, I think the world is in a pretty dark place right now and getting worse. It seems that everyone says that about their times though...

I have basically no hope for the future of our species but I still have hopes for my own life.

When a massive meteorite struck the earth 65 million years ago, and literally wiped out the majority of all species, had you been around at the time would you have given a good forecast for the future of life on Earth?

Or if you had been a European at the time of the Black Plague, when again, only a minority survived?

I think the future is far too difficult for us humble humans to predict. Although, to be fair, it has to end at some point. Even the universe itself as we know it won't last forever.
 
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In my opinion, which I share with a lot of futurists and mystics, particularly Ray Kurzweil, we as species are simply being a transitory chain link in a long story of information processing evolution. I dont even think the life is of that Big importance in terms of Grand Universe Scale, rather it was the way The Information "had chosen" to be processed, through bio-chemical reactions. Ive read in some books that human brain has an innate capability for some very weird immediate information sending/receiving, that has to do with our realization or enlightenment process (opening head crown chakra, nirvana, opening 3rd eye - all synonyms for the same event). Hence the purpose of life seems to be reaching that level of transmitting/receiving power to the point where none of the physical presence matters. Its almost like Life wants our brains to become powerful antennas for some super communication.

Also when Ive had a very deep trip on Amanitas where I was absolutely certain I was dead (but I was so strangely relieved and soothed by that fact) and my "spirit" was just freeroaming around, able to enter any object, animate or inanimate, Ive realized that biological life is simply an option. The "Experience" of life could be replicated on powerful enough quantum computer network imo, if humans would be really interested in that giving out a little more resources for research rather than accumulating it all in their pockets... I too have doom thoughts about the future of humanity and I believe that autonomous self-replicating self-upgrading quantum-calculations based robots will be the last invention human kind would ever build and it's evolution marathon will be passed on to that new species to go on and spread it wider than ever (for once, robots dont need oxygen and are not as fragile, so they'll go FAR).

I enjoy being a human with all my love, hate, demons, problems, sickness... Its a very rewarding experience as stated in a lot of eastern spiritual texts, biddhist teachings in particular. To be born as a human is a privilege (or a curse if you like to think that way) - to have so many possibilities for discovery and pleasure, and of course understanding. My powerful DMT ego-smashing experience a couple years ago showed me clearly that the only things that matter in human life (or at least in my human life) are knowledge (getting it and spreading it) and ability to love.

Peace to all! %)
 
I appreciate reading everyone's commentary on the state of the world these days, as always. I spent 10 minutes writing a reply to Psy997 yesterday and lost it because the BL server was too busy to post it. Speaking of this place being hot right now, what do y'all think about the mainstreaming of (and profiting from) psychonautic exploration? I see the writing on the walls everywhere these days, but here is one example http://www.evolverlearninglab.com/pr...altered-states
I won't say I'm not interested, but putting such a price on information just feels wrong to me. It should be free!
 
I spent 10 minutes writing a reply to Psy997 yesterday and lost it because the BL server was too busy to post it
- this had happened to me twice already so I write in the notepad if it's a long one, then copy-paste it, just to be safe.
mainstreaming of (and profiting from) psychonautic exploration
- I like that idea a lot! Theoretically we can organize video conferences which could be free, or like those guys are doing, actually organize a conference, but then the money come in play as well as organizing and involving more working people... During the summer it might be possible to organize a big conference in the open air with, perhaps with some progressive psychedelic bands playing at the end of it...8)
 
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Yeah, many would say that self-sacrifice is bullshit and not worth it nowadays. But I would disagree. I've also worked as a server in a small family restaurant a while ago...) I have also worked for quite low paying job at the animal shelter for a long time, just because I felt there were people and animals that really need me, even if they might never admit it. I think if you feel that your sacrifice sparks even a little light it is absolutely worth it.
Makes me think of a monomyth, or the hero's journey - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey - very interesting concept...
 
Ive realized that biological life is simply an option. The "Experience" of life could be replicated on powerful enough quantum computer network imo, if humans would be really interested in that giving out a little more resources for research rather than accumulating it all in their pockets... I too have doom thoughts about the future of humanity and I believe that autonomous self-replicating self-upgrading quantum-calculations based robots will be the last invention human kind would ever build and it's evolution marathon will be passed on to that new species to go on and spread it wider than ever (for once, robots dont need oxygen and are not as fragile, so they'll go FAR).


Honestly, a humanity willing to give up their humanity and move on to "live" inside super-computers scares me even more than total extinction.
 
Honestly, a humanity willing to give up their humanity and move on to "live" inside super-computers scares me even more than total extinction.

This, basically; Kurzweil et al., the entire trans/post-humanism, "Singularity" people are nuts, especially when the latter takes on apocalyptic (and therefrom essentially inevitably) cultic overtones, actually starts to get scary. Good ol' Tim Leary got involved with some of this stuff towards the end of his life and McKenna, of course, is one of it's close progenitors.

It also has disturbing existential sociopolitical implications; in the practical, despite being nonsense, it a dangerous line of thought; is innately elitist, anti-human, anti-spiritual, perhaps above all, nihilistic and lacking grounding in any sociological, political or philosophical understanding of human existence. From a 2010 piece in the leftist publication CounterPunch on the whole bit of sour porridge, and a sour porridge it is;


As the cultural critic Lewis Mumford warned, technological progress is not a function of any essential quality and inherent driver within technology, but rather reflects a deliberate effort by individuals and institutions to drive technology as a means to achieve certain economic and political ends. As “the hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord” wrote Karl Marx in the Poverty of Philosophy, “the steam-mill, society with the industrial capitalist.” What kind of society does science and technology directed and controlled by military and corporate interests give us? ...

While there are those interested in developing a politics of technology that interrogates the social and environmental costs of technological change, it’s rarely the critical version offered by Mumford but more often one that ignores the political economy of technological change and instead focuses on a superficial politics of pollution or negative externalities. But the pressing political need made evident by the rise of the singularity movement is the necessity of a politics of technology that considers the social costs of military technologies of human perfectibility.

Technological change transforms society but never in the way its enthusiasts predict. Technological change works to reconstitute the conditions not just of production but of survival in capitalist society in ways that transform the structure of our interests. What kind of society is created, for example, when human genetic engineering is controlled by corporate interests? For whom does that society serve if not those who control the technologies for profit? This is a particularly germane question for the singularity movement given who’s funding and profiting from the technologies whose praises the singularity movement sings.

The silly musings of singularity’s futurists and technologists make their utopian visions sound like episodes of the Jetsons. But the bourgeois dream of class domination and faith in technoscience hide its corporate face with scientific fact, military control with techno-enthusiasm, and ruling class ideology for general human benefit.

So why the lack of skeptical consideration? The silly Techno-capitalist-transcendent language of the singularity movement finds broad social acceptance because of a remarkably underdeveloped politics of technology on the political left. To the easily fooled, The Singularity looks like a) a good idea, b) a baffling idea beyond the ability of radical politics to critique, or c) a silly science-fictiony idea not worth addressing. But it’s none of the above. Instead it represents the highest aspirations of reactionary politics to foreclose the possibility of radical social change.



The "simulation argument" &c. are sophomoric and you have conferences involving some real movers and shakers in the technological world who may be proficient in their technical fields and in the abstruse and abstract mathematics (e.g., computability theory) but tend not to have a realistic grounding in the humanities, that is, in a more than sophomoric understanding of the existential to philosophical implications of what they are teaching.

Of course, I believe that consciousness, eo ipso, involves self-referentiality (and ultimately, at the bottom, a soul); which, as more technical students of Computer Science, as well as the once very trendy Gödel, Escher, Bach, will instantly understand that also is a significant and essential problem in their field. That is to say, there is no computer program H( f ( x ) ) that can determine whether an arbitrary program f will ever come to a complete halt if given input x. Obviously, you can't do so empirically, because that would render H( f, x ) ≡ f ( x ) and therefore the H-function practically useless; we would most likely want to employ it to make sure our computer wouldn't crash for undertaking f, or at least that the latter was well-formed.

This is one of the most famous problems in computer science and was proven by Turing in the sixties, and relates of course to the incompleteness theorem of Gödel which states (basically) that you basically can't create a mathematical or logical system that doesn't involve some sort of underlying assumptions. There is a striking degree of overlap here with problems of infinite regress involving consciousness (or creation, for that matter), the answers to which are all more or less theological, whether calling themselves so and invoking a primum movens God, or not.

The Singularist/transhumanist believes that this can be dispatched with, at least practically, in silico, and this doesn't, if you'll excuse the pun, "compute." Of course I'm oversimplifying things here, but there are profound philosophical and existential questions that need be answered before we start thinking in these terms (Do androids dream ...?; issues around causality, inevitability and Free Will.) Basically a lot of old wine in new bottles and stuff that philosophy has been struggling with since there has been such a thing as philosophy.

As for transhumanism and Singularity in the wider sense, that is, that we will (a) augment ourselves technologically and therefore (b) will change, fundamentally, what it means to be human; this has pretty much already happened. To believe in these ideas in a stronger sense runs into the stronger philosophical problems above as it relates to so-called "artificial intelligence," and so forth. An "artificial intelligence," and that would include you in a simulation/brain-in-a-vat scenario, will never be anything more than n upgrades to something like Siri, Cortana (remember "Ask Jeeves?"), or particularly efficacious applications of the same which are restricted to limited problem sets (algorithms, some designed around "emergent phenomena" which arise from additional inputs from the real world, we interact with this sort of thing all the time, like when using our phones for driving directions or looking at recommended books on Amazon, and so forth), the idea of a "generalized AI" is absurd.

Since this is the psychedelic forum after all, can you imagine a "GAI" tripping? Tripping is, of course, nothing but a chemical veil, filter, and permutation of sensory inputs leading to a subjectively altered consciousness (and from whence, alterations in behavior; not to self-promote but this is of course what I was writing about in the last draft excerpt I linked to here.) But this isn't actually just tripping (or being on drugs, generally), because you could say the same (veil, filter, and permutation) of neurochemistry itself; we are "ghosts on drugs," as I phrased it, after the idea of the "ghost in the [biological] machine."

But for very fundamental reasons you won't have a ghost in the silicon machine. You may have some pretty impressive impersonation of one (and work on this has been going back for a long time, cf. the ELIZA(1) program, also as early as the late the 60's, an era of great optimism about AI), and going down through some of "her" descendants, Siri et al., and we can expect this to improve as technology, particularly database technology and techniques for programming and self-generating related databases and functions, improves, so we may at some point do well in simulating you-ness, which is the subject of the well-known Turing test (can you, conversing over a teletype, tell man from machine?; related philosophical question—does hiding a bilingual man in a black box through which you pass pieces of paper in English and get them out in Mandarin or vice versa mean 箱子流利的中文和英文? Does the fact that Google can translate for me, and you, mean the same for Google, or for me or for you?

But the idea of simulating I-ness (consciousness) is self-refuting (the "homonculus argument," viz. if I am simulating having-a-consciousness, to whom am I simulating having-a-consciousness, and how does that target of my simulation differ from a consciousness?) So the idea of simulating consciousness is equivalent to creating consciousness or, more to the point, simulating consciousness is a faulty way of describing creating consciousness, i.e. man playing God and violating the iron-clad laws of fundamental logic, computation, and indeed existence (i.e. the problems of self-reference) that I started this post by mentioning. Transcending that is transcending the limits of consciousness which, again syllogistically, we can't do; so the whole thing is a bunch of hot air, but, as above, by implication, scary hot air ... where we are with technology (i.e. already in the "singularity," and, at least by choice when hooked into the internet and so on, at least somehow "posthuman") is already terrifying in it's sociopolitical and existential implications!

People who embrace this want to take us down a very dark road.

I won't make this a post based on theology; but note—the promise of the serpent in Eden* you shall become like God. The result was not a good one. The same promise is made by the transhumanists. Their stated goals are philosophically questionable at best, but as for the ultimate outcome, we've heard the story before.

* Not meaning to turn this post into a specifically Christian theological/hamartiological/soteriological discussion, I'll relegate to a footnote a brief attempt to describe the traditional Christian exegesis of the account of the fall of Man in Genesis 3, God has already placed two trees in the garden of Eden; one being the "tree of Life," granting, presumably, immortality, innocence, and harmony; the other is the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." This, or no, translation really does this justice. The promise of the serpent is that by eating therefrom, we shall "become like God, having knowledge of good and evil." God knows good from evil yet remains eternally good; but for man, "having knowledge of good and evil" meant something totally different. Until that day, man had only an inborn good nature, but not being an omniscient and omnipotent Deity, "knowledge of evil" meant gaining also an inborn evil nature staining and intermixing with the good nature, whereby humankind is cursed with all the vicissitudes of our life and requires redemption.
 
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Thank you for all the comments / advice guys, I really really appreciate it <3

Honestly, a humanity willing to give up their humanity and move on to "live" inside super-computers scares me even more than total extinction.

100% this
 
Am reading GEB.. that makes perfect sense though, SKL: can you really understand anything that goes on in your own mind? ;)

Another reason why GAI is absurd is because AI and even non-artificial I is an optimalization process. We are optimalized via evolution to survive and navigate this world, although unfortunately are not especially equipped to efficiently analyze and intuit things that have little to do with any of that physical manifestation of the world, though we like to think that we are very good at all of that... an AI we would build would also be optimalized but for different things, aimed at our gloabl problems and/or things we are not necessarily that good at.

Tripping could mean a lot of things for an AI - it could mean a virus or certain stimuli get scrambled which can lead to both noise, artifacts, but also more meaningful association and 'realization' because besides the normal information pool there is now also another one available. One that emerges from disruption, from happy mistakes and productive dysfunction. If you would teach an AI to direct it's attention in certain ways, to run subroutines that more or less disturb or hijack the usual straightforward processing, then similar richness may arive from the new patterns that arise. Perhaps you could teach an AI to trip naturally besides teaching it different manners of 'meditation' that relate to it's self-awareness.
[maybe you disagree but tripping to me involves a lot of such 'productive dysfunction' where brain activity from one region for example gets inappropriately interpreted by a neighboring region, where regions get tickled without actual sensory stimuli, that kind of thing. I don't mean to be reductionist in a way to say that tripping is meaningless, because I think that our experiences of trees appearing alive and many many more things do end up being productive even if they come from fundamentally arbitrary effects. The effects don't matter, what matters is that the effects are performed on OUR minds, and it is our minds that are shown to us in the process. It does not circumvent that GEB self-reference dilemma, but it does put us in a better position because you can tell more from a system that is forced to reveal it's inner workings than by one that is just allowed to optimally 'fool' you.]

A major question I'd ask though if all of that isn't pretty much redundant in a well-developed AI that is superlucid and -aware? Doesn't how tripping opens our human eyes mostly demonstrate how we are flawed to not see certain things in the first place?

Another question is whatever could be benefited about appreciation, emotion, experience and value system if all of those are strictly controlled in an AI in order to best prevent it from developing it's own set of values that may consider humanity 'to be in it's own way' or in that of planet earth?

By the way, since it's pretty much impossible to comprehend what it would be like to 'live in side a super-computer' it seems pretty meaningless to me to consider it 'inferior to humanity in any case'. I really don't know how you could say something about that. That it scares people is understandable though considering anything we can't comprehend can easily be scary.

fML
 
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NSFW for depressing stuff

NSFW:
life is rough guys

spent a week in the hospital because the chemo clinic forgot to give me my white-blood-cell boosting shot after my most recent week of chemo... got a nasty infection, fever was 103F (40C), heart rate was 155... ended up needing a bunch more of those shots than i would have, and i got a one unit blood transfusion (first time for that)... now my next chemo infusion is pushed back by a week...

i got out in time for thanksgiving, tho, and actually had an appetite for it too.

i've been getting really existentially worried. to the point of tears a lot of days. when i was in the hospital i finally got brave enough to look up the survival statistics for where i am at with my cancer/treatment. i've got a 54% chance of being alive in 7 years.
 
Wow, man. I'm really sorry you are facing such frightening and undesirable circumstances. I am very sad and my heart is heavy for all of my friends suffering from cancer. I love you, bro and hope yours is in that majority.
 
Watching True Detective season 1 for the third time. This really is the best television I've ever seen. Kudos to Nic Pizzolatto and all in the production of the show.
 
I'm really sorry pharmakos... that has to be really scary. Partly because of your experience with this, and me being a little older than you, I've been pretty paranoid lately about cancer. I've really been thinking about it quite a bit.

Try not to let the worry consume your life. First of all, that's a pretty good prognosis, just try to be as healthy as you can, doing stuff like exercising (when you're able) and eating well will help your body be stronger to fight it. And secondly, stress is bad for you. Easier said than done I'm sure... <3
 
I'm riding back home after a 5 day holiday with the family. I can't wait to go for a bike ride as I come up on a decent bump of 3meopce.

I read GEB, or most of it, back around 2001. It was quite interesting and got me thinking of some deep stuff. Now, the idea of AI tripping and learning/discovering that way, growing its consciousness, self-awareness, could be very powerful to help the AI mature.

I quick my shitty retail job last week, the day before going on holiday. It felt so good to do, like there were signs everywhere telling me I need to aspire higher and not get comfortable with part-time minimum-wage shittiness. I'm strongly considering now focusing on education. I want to develop for VR in some capacity. I already have skills to do sound design, music, texturing and some very basic coding. Now with tools like Oculus Medium, creating models in VR is not only possible, the workflow is faster than using a mouse and keyboard. A couple courses in programming with Unity/UE4 should put me in a good position to seek a job in the field, or at least start developing independently.
 
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