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I see I stand corrected. My curiosity was purely due to all the people commenting on how unnatural the 2C-* chemicals are, when, the way I see it, could nature not have just as easily made cacti containing 2C-D as it made ones containing Mescaline? Obviously it's not that simple, but I'm sure you see what I'm getting at, the compounds aren't incredibly unnatural in structure - no? It's a silly debate anyway, all is nature at the end of the day :D

Pssh, dogs are awesome! But I do love cats equally much :)
 
Yea I mean I see what you're getting at. But you are right I feel like all phenethylamines and tryptamines are pretty natural in structure (even the ones that are only known to exist through synthesis.) It's just that nature wasn't pushed to produce those exact structures using plants... only humans haha.

Edit: I went to a seminar today in which a professor showed everyone how the LSD ring structure can be somewhat easily made starting with aniline..
 
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^ It's one reason why I don't completely trust dissociatives in their effects. They seem to have a way of brutally dissociating the mind and bringing about some rather schizoid states. I'm not one to tout the "those chemicals man, they're not natural" mumbo jumbo, but arylcyclohexamines have no cousins found in nature nor in our endogenous neurotransmitter soup. Serotonergics/dopaminergics like phens and trypts are produced naturally and some of our main neurotransmitter systems are based on them. We just modified them a bit to make novel psychedelics and stimulants out of them. It's just a sense I get of how phens/trypts seem more trustworthy.

About cats and dogs. I'm a dog person. I like cats too, but they don't jump and dance with joy when you walk in the door. The dog at the place I'm living is my shadow. She follows my every move and when I come home from school it's the highlight of her day. She's a husky/golden retriever mix but phenotypically the husky side predominates. I took her for a walk a couple days ago and when she saw a deer and got on the trail she went ballistic. There was no calming her down. I decided to let her insticts have some fun and we went barreling through the woods off trail for 10 minutes before I finally had to get her to stop. She really wanted to get that deer. :D

Cats are cool in that their independent and good mouse hunters while sometimes still being affectionate but they don't offer the same friendly companionship a dog does, they're kinda selfish by nature. Kittens are adorably playful, curious and cute. I do adore kittens. :)
 
I'm not a fan of disassociatives either, i rather dislike not being able to control my body completely/cant stand up on K.
 
i think you just need to use a lower dose and add some cannabis if that's yoir thing,

Also before giving up on diss,, give MXE a whirl; it is godly stuff and won't make you wobble too bad unless you take too mucj and it was your desire :D
 
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PepperSocks said:
^ It's one reason why I don't completely trust dissociatives in their effects. They seem to have a way of brutally dissociating the mind and bringing about some rather schizoid states. I'm not one to tout the "those chemicals man, they're not natural" mumbo jumbo, but arylcyclohexamines have no cousins found in nature nor in our endogenous neurotransmitter soup. Serotonergics/dopaminergics like phens and trypts are produced naturally and some of our main neurotransmitter systems are based on them. We just modified them a bit to make novel psychedelics and stimulants out of them. It's just a sense I get of how phens/trypts seem more trustworthy.

About cats and dogs. I'm a dog person. I like cats too, but they don't jump and dance with joy when you walk in the door. The dog at the place I'm living is my shadow. She follows my every move and when I come home from school it's the highlight of her day. She's a husky/golden retriever mix but phenotypically the husky side predominates. I took her for a walk a couple days ago and when she saw a deer and got on the trail she went ballistic. There was no calming her down. I decided to let her insticts have some fun and we went barreling through the woods off trail for 10 minutes before I finally had to get her to stop. She really wanted to get that deer. :D

Cats are cool in that their independent and good mouse hunters while sometimes still being affectionate but they don't offer the same friendly companionship a dog does, they're kinda selfish by nature. Kittens are adorably playful, curious and cute. I do adore kittens. :)
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That's exactly why I'm not a dog person. I mean I like dogs fine, and I spent a good amount of time with our dog when I was at my dad's, but the fact that they are so enamored with and reliant upon their owner emotionally makes me uncomfortable at times. For all the time that I can't or simply don't want to spend around the animal, I can get feeling rather guilty for not doing my best to maintain its happiness, it's a lot to be charged with. I guess dogs are more like small children, you love them but the focus they place on their parent can be extremely trying for said parent, cat's are more like adult friendships, you spend time together because you both enjoy each other's company, but you both have your own shit going on as well.

Also, that's an awesome thing about arylclohexylamines/dissociatives in general, fuck nature and it's psychedelics and endogenous shit, we can induce mystical experiences by ourselves, using wonky chemicals whose design is not at all incorporated within us or plant life. It's beautiful, it fits into the man vs nature archetypal narrative whilst having that complimentary-opposites duality of yin and yang (or two sides of the same coin for Western phraseology). An embracing of the infinite through expansion and connection, a wonderful expression of the vast web/clockwork of nature and the universe. Or alternatively, reaching the infinite by shutting out everything, a hyperbolic representation of man's attempts at control and escape from a world beyond his control...but in so doing we are shown that our most fundamental awareness is unable to comprehend discrete existences, our ultimate rejection of circumstances beyond our control (both external and internal) reveals that fundamental awareness to be the only truly real thing...thus bringing all the universe into one limitless is-ness through reduction and disconnection, in the void.
 
I agree with the whole cat/dog person analogy except for a person loves both or hates both.


=Never Knows Best;10029733
Also, that's an awesome thing about arylclohexylamines/dissociatives in general, fuck nature and it's psychedelics and endogenous shit, we can induce mystical experiences by ourselves, using wonky chemicals whose design is not at all incorporated within us or plant life. It's beautiful, it fits into the man vs nature archetypal narrative whilst having that complimentary-opposites duality of yin and yang (or two sides of the same coin for Western phraseology). An embracing of the infinite through expansion and connection, a wonderful expression of the vast web/clockwork of nature and the universe. Or alternatively, reaching the infinite by shutting out everything, a hyperbolic representation of man's attempts at control and escape from a world beyond his control...but in so doing we are shown that our most fundamental awareness is unable to comprehend discrete existences, our ultimate rejection of circumstances beyond our control (both external and internal) reveals that fundamental awareness to be the only truly real thing...thus bringing all the universe into one limitless is-ness through reduction and disconnection, in the void.
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you pretty much summed up my spiritual views in the last few years driven by psychedelics and to seek the unknown.DXM in high doses totally gives me that state of mind as well. There's something very special about these cjemicals.
 
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I am a big fan of Ketamine, but I agree completely, synthetic psychedelics feel perfectly "natural" to me, but Ketamine on the other hand, even just the experience feels a lot more robotic and synthesized. (I'm waiting for a DXM pun here.)

Have you ever experienced any natural dissociatives? The only ones I know of are Salvia and properly prepared Amanita Muscaria, though I'm sure there are a good few others out there.

More regarding cats and dogs. Personally I have 3 dogs, Lucy, Molly and Katie (you can take a guess why they have those names :D) but I have always loved cats too. I just think they're very different. I always say the wisest people are the old and dying - and newborn young children, in between we're just "deciding", and in my experience cats are very much like the old, and dogs like the young. Dogs are ever playful, affectionate, always learning, a little goofy, but always reliable and they love you like nothing else. Cats remind me of wise old men, experienced, calm, collected, meditative, always a trick up their sleeve, very interesting and they never fail to surprise me.

"wonkylulzymysticfunballs" I like that, the next person to ask me what Ketamine's like is getting that in reply.
 
tolerance sucks.
when you cant even snort teh shit anymore because it breaks down to too much and you cant bang em either...
 
Speaking of mxe I am very excited about getting it again. Words can't describe the amazing state it puts my mind and body in.

Who here has experience with mixing the 2cs with mxe. The 2cs I have done are 2c-e, 2c-b and 2c-t2. I was thinking bout mixing it with 2c-e. It has been 4 years since I had any 2cs; I really should order some.
 
I may procure some MXE in the near future for the first time, if I do I'll be sure to give the combination a try and let you know. Though I have a feeling you'll have tried it yourself before then.
 
Jesusgreen said:
Have you ever experienced any natural dissociatives? The only ones I know of are Salvia and properly prepared Amanita Muscaria, though I'm sure there are a good few others out there.y.
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Personally I wouldn't consider either of those to be Dissociatives since they're not NMDA antagonists, I mean yeah some of their effects can be described as dissociative, but you could do that with a number of drugs.


And you people need to stop making me want to try MXE...there's no way I would be able to not go on a high-dose binge, and that would not be good for my psychological health. Or tolerance. Anyway phenylo, IME 2c-e tends to play well with dissociatives, obviously I've never tried it with that one in particular, but I can't think of a reason why it would be ill advised.
 
Although Wikipedia isn't necessarily the best source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative

There they have four classes of dissociatives, not just NMDA antagonists, and I generally agree with that description based on the effects of the other classes. Ah the list reminds me, Ibogaine! I forgot that one. To me NMDA vs GABA-A or k-Opioid is like Tryptamine vs Phenethylamine, more a sub-class than a class itself. Though, personally I think the current classification system is a bit mixed up, with people constantly classing things under the wrong name, coming up with new groups to classify things under, and generally making it confusing for the "end-user".

Oh I love the random things I find on the internet (just for reference, I was reading about snuff, not cocaine):
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080516215802AAU2dy9

The best answer :D
 
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But tryptamines and phenethylamines are both 5ht2a agonists, which is why I'd classify them as Psychedelics. I like classifying drugs based off of pharmacological action. Not saying that my way is right and other ways are wrong, just my preferred method. I wouldn't be opposed to calling them dissociatives (with a lower case d), in the broad sense that I'd classify both GABAergics and opiates as downers. Classification is a complicated affair, you have both the scientific aspects and the subjective effects to keep in mind to make them useful to the end user.

Man, I wish I had some GBL...I had a quota of paper apps I was supposed to get from physical stores today to prove I was doing shit (folks don't trust me, a justified position). Invariably, I couldn't bring myself to go into a single one. I think I'm going to go walk down to that other place I was staying at recently and just camp out in the bathroom. I doubt anyone will look there if they check out the main place first. Now I gotta either panhandle some money for some stuff (I hate doing that) or just content myself with the one thing I have remaining on hand, 2c-e...hmmmmm.
 
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Sup PD? As usual, I am working myself too hard and beating myself up about not getting enough done. Seems like nothing is easy and it won't get any easier. I looked at public records of salaries at state schools and it was depressing. I realized that if I eventually become a professor somewhere I will have to work more and still get paid jack squat (starting prof salary is like 45-55 or so, and you have to work your ass off all day and night and pray you get tenure after 5 years or you get kicked out and gotta move). You have to get up to the level of the old whitebeards at a big school (like MIT for example) to get more than 200,000, and even then, the shittiest doctor in the hospital is earning more than you, as are all the coaches of the big sports teams (a coach at a big school can get well over a million a year). Makes me thing more and more about going into industry. Problem is, I like teaching, and I like researching what is interesting, not what is good for the company.

The lesson kids, is go into pro sports when you are young (look at how much your average football player or basketball player is making). or become a medical doctor.
 
I don't know why rolling cigarettes is so extraordinarily impossible whilst tripping, but dammit, it's fun to try and then smoke the pathetic looking things that come out of my efforts. But tripping to the Band of Gypsies at the Fillmore East new years 1970 makes just about anything fun and magical. Hahaha. I feel like I just took a bottled pep talk, much nicer than had I decided to find pep at the bottom of a bottle.

If you haven't listened to that show, you have to. Jimi and Buddy Miles make a great combo, they're rocking out to their sound as they make it, Buddy singing guitar noises in a couple of the songs, having a good time. Quality shit for your next psychedelic/dissociative indulgence.

yucatan said:
Sup PD? As usual, I am working myself too hard and beating myself up about not getting enough done. Seems like nothing is easy and it won't get any easier. I looked at public records of salaries at state schools and it was depressing. I realized that if I eventually become a professor somewhere I will have to work more and still get paid jack squat (starting prof salary is like 45-55 or so, and you have to work your ass off all day and night and pray you get tenure after 5 years or you get kicked out and gotta move). You have to get up to the level of the old whitebeards at a big school (like MIT for example) to get more than 200,000, and even then, the shittiest doctor in the hospital is earning more than you, as are all the coaches of the big sports teams (a coach at a big school can get well over a million a year). Makes me thing more and more about going into industry. Problem is, I like teaching, and I like researching what is interesting, not what is good for the company.

The lesson kids, is go into pro sports when you are young (look at how much your average football player or basketball player is making). or become a medical doctor.
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I choose to read this as, "I may have to work my ass off, but I can get PAID to be in academia and teach/learn, which is totally awesome, so the effort's worth it and means somethign." Word to shit being hard and never getting any easier though. I was beating myself up about not getting enough done today, but tomorrow's a new day and I can try again.
 
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