Thorns Have Roses
Bluelight Crew
^The drugs wouldn't last too long, as society would collapse that same day and everything would be a cesspool of starvation and murder. And some rape too. You know how those Malthusian catastrophes are.
☮ Social ☮ PD Social: Nexus for gibberish of the psychedelicized genius and veritably insane
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pharmakos
Bluelighter
is logic and self-preservation not a primal urge though?
Well drug urges are not really primal, they are artificial and overrule things like self preservation as you may remember from stim use?
Also remember that we are not built to survive and protect ourselves, we are vessels of selfish genes that program us to do things that might extend their lifespan and upkeep their integrety. We are sexually selective and strive naturally for the best genetic recombination. At the same time, sexually deprived people sure know they lower the bar and jump the bones of just remotely attractive (to them I mean) people of the opposite sex.
Logic is an evolutionary advantage that can help solve problems to yield safer refuge, more food, avoidance of predators, and so on.
I think it's not that hard to find conflicting signals within ourselves, the more dominant signal wins apparently because it gets the highest priority due to some situation. We constantly change our agenda and are riddled with vestigial psychological mechanisms, that were once useful... but now are just useless noise in a sea of signals. I'd be careful with going with primal urges because we just live in a world that has evolved much much faster than us. We can compensate by rationalization to filter out crap and keep an eye out for urges of the body that stay ever relevant like hunger, sleep and other such regulating urges.
So of course i am not saying 'overthink everything and ignore all urges unless they happen to match the situation', instead I think urges should be used as radar guidance to tell us about needs, but while I don't think all urges should be ignored, they should still all be scrutinized... because you don't want to go running after something that is just pointless, and absolutely nothing more than irrational.
Mirrored to this, we should handle fears the same. Many fears are a residu of an earlier effective protection mechanism. While it may not damage us in the short run to go with the safe option and react on fears, they may be based upon a situation that is completely changed and I would consider it a repair or update to match that fear with realism.
Many people get cringy around spiders, well around where I live even the biggest spiders are a huge stretch from dangerous. It would even be hard to get a safe 'bite' or whatever let alone an attack actually relevant to our health.
It's okay to be afraid of spiders but I consider it a residual error in our programming - it does not make any sense anymore and having to avoid walking to a basement fridge barefoot at night... that is an impairment however small. And it illustrates my point that we like and fear a whole variety of things based on the mass-programming of an erratic anciently growing 'organism' namely evolution. Well I don't think evolution meets all demands to be called an organism, but there are life-like things about it: reaction or interaction, types of learning etc.
We thank our instinct to this long-term learning but I don't hold any illusion that this trial and error based machienery is perfect. So we can 'readjust' to improve it.
Also remember that we are not built to survive and protect ourselves, we are vessels of selfish genes that program us to do things that might extend their lifespan and upkeep their integrety. We are sexually selective and strive naturally for the best genetic recombination. At the same time, sexually deprived people sure know they lower the bar and jump the bones of just remotely attractive (to them I mean) people of the opposite sex.
Logic is an evolutionary advantage that can help solve problems to yield safer refuge, more food, avoidance of predators, and so on.
I think it's not that hard to find conflicting signals within ourselves, the more dominant signal wins apparently because it gets the highest priority due to some situation. We constantly change our agenda and are riddled with vestigial psychological mechanisms, that were once useful... but now are just useless noise in a sea of signals. I'd be careful with going with primal urges because we just live in a world that has evolved much much faster than us. We can compensate by rationalization to filter out crap and keep an eye out for urges of the body that stay ever relevant like hunger, sleep and other such regulating urges.
So of course i am not saying 'overthink everything and ignore all urges unless they happen to match the situation', instead I think urges should be used as radar guidance to tell us about needs, but while I don't think all urges should be ignored, they should still all be scrutinized... because you don't want to go running after something that is just pointless, and absolutely nothing more than irrational.
Mirrored to this, we should handle fears the same. Many fears are a residu of an earlier effective protection mechanism. While it may not damage us in the short run to go with the safe option and react on fears, they may be based upon a situation that is completely changed and I would consider it a repair or update to match that fear with realism.
Many people get cringy around spiders, well around where I live even the biggest spiders are a huge stretch from dangerous. It would even be hard to get a safe 'bite' or whatever let alone an attack actually relevant to our health.
It's okay to be afraid of spiders but I consider it a residual error in our programming - it does not make any sense anymore and having to avoid walking to a basement fridge barefoot at night... that is an impairment however small. And it illustrates my point that we like and fear a whole variety of things based on the mass-programming of an erratic anciently growing 'organism' namely evolution. Well I don't think evolution meets all demands to be called an organism, but there are life-like things about it: reaction or interaction, types of learning etc.
We thank our instinct to this long-term learning but I don't hold any illusion that this trial and error based machienery is perfect. So we can 'readjust' to improve it.
pharmakos
Bluelighter
fear of spiders is still really useful in the parts of the world where poisonous spiders still live and still get into our houses =p
I know but I was talking about places where there is no primal jungle, like the country / world parts I live. My point was: not everything is effective when it's all in "active mode". Our world now is more dynamic than that, or better yet: our modern lives are. Much more changes taking place in much less time. Yet we are still stuck with a relatively static package of fears and desires. Many of those things may be more hardwired than it should be. I was saying we ought to try and flip those switches and at least be aware of the dynamics. Much bagage. Could also be linked to prejudices and how easily some of those are acquired and how hard they are to get rid of.
Mr. Nobody is an awesome movie. In the opening credits there is some explanation about geese/ducklings being able to recognize the shape of a bird of prey flying over, or the shape of a mother flying over - without ever having seen such a bird of prey before, and they recognize accordingly - spontaneously and instinctively. All of this implying that we, too, very very likely have automated reactions since birth... but I bet you a ton we don't know what exactly they are. Maybe some clues...
But the message is not that it may all still serve a function, such as the fact that there are poisonous spiders in some parts of the world... but rather that unknown reactions might be getting in our way, and we need to pay attention how true our reactions are... keep in the back of the minds that we may not be able to trust all of them.
If it was just things like fears that may be irrelevant in some cases that is one thing. But what I am more concerned about is wrong recognition. My end conclusion at least being that I think we cannot go and rely on primal urges because we don't live in a primal world. I don't think you want to act on all such urges because you don't want to do certain things for the wrong reasons. Those reasons having to do with genes being a sort of memetic replicators and other biological drives that are not considering the entirety of our personal value systems.
Hmm I don't know why I am placing huge posts to dive into matters brought up in the smallest posts. :D
Mr. Nobody is an awesome movie. In the opening credits there is some explanation about geese/ducklings being able to recognize the shape of a bird of prey flying over, or the shape of a mother flying over - without ever having seen such a bird of prey before, and they recognize accordingly - spontaneously and instinctively. All of this implying that we, too, very very likely have automated reactions since birth... but I bet you a ton we don't know what exactly they are. Maybe some clues...
But the message is not that it may all still serve a function, such as the fact that there are poisonous spiders in some parts of the world... but rather that unknown reactions might be getting in our way, and we need to pay attention how true our reactions are... keep in the back of the minds that we may not be able to trust all of them.
If it was just things like fears that may be irrelevant in some cases that is one thing. But what I am more concerned about is wrong recognition. My end conclusion at least being that I think we cannot go and rely on primal urges because we don't live in a primal world. I don't think you want to act on all such urges because you don't want to do certain things for the wrong reasons. Those reasons having to do with genes being a sort of memetic replicators and other biological drives that are not considering the entirety of our personal value systems.
Hmm I don't know why I am placing huge posts to dive into matters brought up in the smallest posts. :D
pharmakos
Bluelighter
i read it all, and i enjoyed
so we have to make sure that we don't let our fears turn into prejudices?
Ah, I'm glad - and I'm happy you brought it up since the start of this page more or less - was interesting!
Well sounds about right about fears turning into prejudices but I think we should make no illusions and realize that this does happen in maybe all of us, but realizing it and keeping an eye on it seems important to me. Not letting it affect you too much as an automatic secondary response, seems to me where it's at.
I consider myself open-minded and compassionate but if I'm walking down the street and there is someone with morbid obesity, an unattractive complexion, bad body hygiene and eating junk food in a most distasteful way... I have a gut reaction: I am repulsed. But then a conscious layer of reactions kick in that let me self-reflect, and I can make up my mind about on the one hand not considering the person a pleasant candidate to get intimate and friendly with, but on the other hand finding this person every bit as worthy to treat with dignity and respect if an item were to drop on the street, it would be handed over as a polite gesture, the way I would talk and interact would be neutral.
But when I was a bit younger, I think I was much less inclined to grant a person I would have these automatic prejudices about a hello and normal treatment.
Still, I'm no saint and I feel hangups about situations, judging them on the basis of people's appearances, etc. Some others are truly kind and open tot everyone and anyone... well not everyone even wants to be very very saintly that way but it does change the feel of your life.
Consider pumped up agressive types who consider eye-contact to be a personal offense, who ready themselves to make any bullshit situation into an ego-game. Wanting to measure ego's and wanting to come out up top.
I'm just saying, it's a spectrum and that is at the shallow end where - if I review ego games I have played myself in the past - it feels the least free. Because something always has to be proven, and even when it's proven it always need reconfirmation again and again.
Even though I have issues with myself and with certain situations going on in my life, in that spectrum I mentioned I feel like I can relax and like it is improbable that I would hurt someones feelings as a direct result of pointless ego-games. Maybe I don't have that sugary little extra that makes me extravert... but that's okay for now.
If it sounds like a competition I am describing, it's not one... or perhaps only one you play against yourself. And because it is yourself or sense of self that can be the opponent doesn't that mean there are only lose-lose or win-win situations? It may not always seem like that because other people can get hurt in the process. Still I think competition with others on a deep level only reflects the competition with yourself. And others are rather... liable to collateral damage instead.
Man it's getting late. And I have things to do tomorrow. Take care!
Well sounds about right about fears turning into prejudices but I think we should make no illusions and realize that this does happen in maybe all of us, but realizing it and keeping an eye on it seems important to me. Not letting it affect you too much as an automatic secondary response, seems to me where it's at.
I consider myself open-minded and compassionate but if I'm walking down the street and there is someone with morbid obesity, an unattractive complexion, bad body hygiene and eating junk food in a most distasteful way... I have a gut reaction: I am repulsed. But then a conscious layer of reactions kick in that let me self-reflect, and I can make up my mind about on the one hand not considering the person a pleasant candidate to get intimate and friendly with, but on the other hand finding this person every bit as worthy to treat with dignity and respect if an item were to drop on the street, it would be handed over as a polite gesture, the way I would talk and interact would be neutral.
But when I was a bit younger, I think I was much less inclined to grant a person I would have these automatic prejudices about a hello and normal treatment.
Still, I'm no saint and I feel hangups about situations, judging them on the basis of people's appearances, etc. Some others are truly kind and open tot everyone and anyone... well not everyone even wants to be very very saintly that way but it does change the feel of your life.
Consider pumped up agressive types who consider eye-contact to be a personal offense, who ready themselves to make any bullshit situation into an ego-game. Wanting to measure ego's and wanting to come out up top.
I'm just saying, it's a spectrum and that is at the shallow end where - if I review ego games I have played myself in the past - it feels the least free. Because something always has to be proven, and even when it's proven it always need reconfirmation again and again.
Even though I have issues with myself and with certain situations going on in my life, in that spectrum I mentioned I feel like I can relax and like it is improbable that I would hurt someones feelings as a direct result of pointless ego-games. Maybe I don't have that sugary little extra that makes me extravert... but that's okay for now.
If it sounds like a competition I am describing, it's not one... or perhaps only one you play against yourself. And because it is yourself or sense of self that can be the opponent doesn't that mean there are only lose-lose or win-win situations? It may not always seem like that because other people can get hurt in the process. Still I think competition with others on a deep level only reflects the competition with yourself. And others are rather... liable to collateral damage instead.
Man it's getting late. And I have things to do tomorrow. Take care!
pharmakos
Bluelighter
yes - the need not to play ego games ... any major dude said it in another thread, how psychedelics " highlight the petty games people play. " can be irritating to be caught up in someone elses' - to be judged or to be rejected - however at the end of the day there is no advantage to be around the kind of person to judge or reject you, so inevitably -- no loss.
sometimes i find myself ' playing people up ' just to escape quickly
you already said something similar when saying; " because you don't want to go running after something that is just pointless "
i am the same in that i try to conjure thought processes that accept all peoples, however still not wanting share space, to keep distance, with some ... there is just unbelievable quantities of neuroses harvested ... dark matter ...
inside out back to front the wrong way round [upside down]?
i am restoring the faith i lost in THE BALANCE, the way things work out just as imperfectly-perfectly as they do, because when i lose faith in that, i have lost the only faith provides me hope. and without hope what do i have ? an endless pit of dreadful pessimism. and really, there's better things to wake up to, like flowers !!!!
sometimes i find myself ' playing people up ' just to escape quickly
you already said something similar when saying; " because you don't want to go running after something that is just pointless "
i am the same in that i try to conjure thought processes that accept all peoples, however still not wanting share space, to keep distance, with some ... there is just unbelievable quantities of neuroses harvested ... dark matter ...
inside out back to front the wrong way round [upside down]?
i am restoring the faith i lost in THE BALANCE, the way things work out just as imperfectly-perfectly as they do, because when i lose faith in that, i have lost the only faith provides me hope. and without hope what do i have ? an endless pit of dreadful pessimism. and really, there's better things to wake up to, like flowers !!!!
Noodle473
Bluelighter
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Your right Solipsis - this is my second post derived from Crowley-ian ethics and it is in a sense a prayer for the apocalypse, including the large scale warfare, rape, and hatred that might go along with it. So I understand now how this does not belong on this kind of forum. I guess I'm just led to believe that this really is what the world needs now, although I realize that is just my own opinion. I guess I don't really belong here because I believe in large-scale reduction of population, even including myself, to rid the earth of the waste we see everywhere. I don't believe death is a "bad" thing because it is simply recycling the energy that fueled the electricity in our brains to keep us alive. In that sense I can see how life is infinite, never ending, like Bill Hicks says.
But I also see how everything is just how it should be - although I realize this is completely contradictory to what I just wrote above. I'm tied up in knots. Naughts (which means 0, haaaaa). I've come to understand that there is a meaning behind everything, no mistakes no accidents, and that the one ultimate organism that comprises of the entirety of the cosmos is a fine director ad can be trusted even though down here it looks bad.
I suppose by primal urges I meant to say do what comes from within. Crowley (or rather the Egyptian ruler he believed he was channeling) says that in every living thing's core there lies an orbit for you to follow, and all you have to do is let it sway you to do what you were born to do. Knowledge and thought make following this inner orbit impossible, and they make things too complicated. The example Crowley gave in his book was something a veil becoming increasingly opaque as it becomes more complex and gains more folds. Therefore, have the mind of an infant and see straight through to your inner meaning.
I don't even know if I believe in any of this, for some reason I've been obsessed with it for the past while.
But I also see how everything is just how it should be - although I realize this is completely contradictory to what I just wrote above. I'm tied up in knots. Naughts (which means 0, haaaaa). I've come to understand that there is a meaning behind everything, no mistakes no accidents, and that the one ultimate organism that comprises of the entirety of the cosmos is a fine director ad can be trusted even though down here it looks bad.
I suppose by primal urges I meant to say do what comes from within. Crowley (or rather the Egyptian ruler he believed he was channeling) says that in every living thing's core there lies an orbit for you to follow, and all you have to do is let it sway you to do what you were born to do. Knowledge and thought make following this inner orbit impossible, and they make things too complicated. The example Crowley gave in his book was something a veil becoming increasingly opaque as it becomes more complex and gains more folds. Therefore, have the mind of an infant and see straight through to your inner meaning.
I don't even know if I believe in any of this, for some reason I've been obsessed with it for the past while.
Thorns Have Roses
Bluelight Crew
^You seem to have a nasty case of alienated-first-world-person-with-too-much-time-on-their-hands syndrome (don't worry, many of us suffer from AFWPWTMTOTHS here). Crowley can be a fun read though.
pharmakos
Bluelighter
i'm on the 93 current =p
Noodle473
Bluelighter
- Joined
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No fucking doubt mate, how can I cure it? Maybe I should lose all my money and work all day and night. Or maybe just my mind is doomed to this syndrome.
Dinosaurs rule ROAR
(please disregard 'inside joke')
Also, Noodle - are you taking that discussion about following primal urges out of some other thread and continuing here?
Because that confuses me a little about the subject.
(please disregard 'inside joke')
Also, Noodle - are you taking that discussion about following primal urges out of some other thread and continuing here?
Because that confuses me a little about the subject.
Thorns Have Roses
Bluelight Crew
I dunno, direction and a mature perspective? That's the avenue I'm taking the first tentative steps towards exploring. It may also help treat my terminal case of youthful stupidity.
Noodle473
Bluelighter
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I feel like your inside joke is making fun of me, but I suppose it is deserved. I'm not continuing a thread here, I was saying that once before on bluelight I talked about Crowley and someone told me to back off because I was basically promoting harm in a harm-reduction forum. So i'll do my best to stop that.
Never Knows Best - I have a hard time telling between maturity and what comes before it. I also find that children know better than adults who take things dangerously too seriously. Not 100% of the time though. Another thing I detest is direction, so your spot on with that advice! I enjoy the direction of spiralling out!
Sup PD
New tune for you guys that I finished up the other day Free wav download if ya want it
http://soundcloud.com/kasura/minds-medicine
I appreciate the support!
Oh and by the way, what are your guy's thoughts on mixing dexidrine with LSD? I did it (not on purpose for I had taken the dextroamphetamine earlier that day) a while ago and it really seemed to tone down the mind fuck.
New tune for you guys that I finished up the other day
Free wav download if ya want ithttp://soundcloud.com/kasura/minds-medicine
I appreciate the support!
Oh and by the way, what are your guy's thoughts on mixing dexidrine with LSD? I did it (not on purpose for I had taken the dextroamphetamine earlier that day) a while ago and it really seemed to tone down the mind fuck.
Thorns Have Roses
Bluelight Crew
noodle four hundred seventy three said:
So long as it's a logarithmic spiral(ing out), they're much more psychedelic than Archimedes spirals.
polywhirl said:
Judging by the comments of a number of users I think it'd be a darn interesting combo to explore (though I myself would be more curious about combining an amp with a 4-sub-tryptamine). I find amps to mix crappily with dissociatives for your mentioned reason of increased lucidity, well meth+4-meo-pcp wasn't really pleasant, in any case.
PepperSocks
Bluelight Crew
Totally without meds. Back when I was generally clean, hadn't met amps/benzos yet, occasional opiate and psychedelic use. It would happen on weekdays when I woke up early to get to lectures, no drugs the night before. It was entirely based on personal, relationship related issues. As soon as I'd come into consciousness the total weight of all that would pierce me like a knife. I still hate the feeling of waking up but it's not as bad.
Actually my sleep schedule is still messed up. I'm on 450mg pregabalin per day, plus whatever benzos/opies/stims I sometimes take in the day; not taking stims at night. I generally find pregabalin makes me sleep LONG hours. Even if I go to bed at 3am, I can wake up at 9am with 6 hours of sleep and be functional, but with pregabalin I can't do that. If I go to bed at 3am, I won't wake up til 1 or 2 in the afternoon, with most of the day already gone by the time I've eaten and am ready to do stuff. It's a pain. An alarm clock doesn't work, I just turn the thing off and pass out before my arm makes it back into the bed.
This 56% abv Chinese sorghum liquor is interesting. Picked it up because I've been curious and I'm meetin' some old friend people within the next week or so. This stuff packs some punch man. I figure if they're leaving America for the summer, they ought to have something to remember our country by, and what's more American than products made in the People's Republic of China?
Haha, one thing you guys can't buy is Chinese made firearms. My best gun is a Chinese copy of an American service rifle. The Chinese costing $400, the American costing $2000+, and the Chinese copy is just as well engineered and accurate.
But yeah, everything's made in China.
I'm at home until the end of the month, when I start a summer course. Been spending some time shooting, but spending twice as much time cleaning the darn things. Something zen about stripping and cleaning a rifle.
I've been having a thought lately about my drug situation. Looking at my stash (the 'bad ones'; benzos, opies, stims), I have a year or two of use if I continue at this rate before they run out. My thinking is, I'm going to let them run out. Downside is I have more stims than benzos and sort of 'need' benzos when using stims, so there's going to be an imbalance there. Anyways I'm not going to re-up; when they're gone they're gone and I can save or spend my money elsewhere.
Uhm, no sorry dude. The dinosaur thing was meant for someone else who knows exactly what it's about and unrelated to my subsequent question that happened to be in the same post. It was not making fun of anyone or anything whatsoever. Sorry for being confusing myself.
Me asking for clarification about how your reaction was meant precisely and what to, was intended unoffensively. Just, you know... in the sense of: I just liked to hear that information.
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