☮ Social ☮ PD Social Distancing Tripping Thread: Viruses Can't Penetrate Hyperspace

[Vastness]

Hah, sorry, @Shady's Fox, bloody amphetamines. I'll do my best. TLDR:

The distiction between "conceptual" things and "real" things maybe illusory.

Reference to "Plato's Forms", and the idea of conceptual things such as numbers and mathematics existing physically "higher up" on the universe tree, casting their shadows on us from the light of the sun of eternity (I referred to it as Ain Soph Aur, not because I'm Jewish or really into Qabballic mysticism, I just really like the Kabbalic Tree of Life (dunno how to spell that word))

Recommendation of book I haven't read - Vacuum Diagrams - and podcast I have listed to with a guy who's book I also haven't read, "The Reality Illusion"

Musings about the novel I intend to write one day - 2 godlike entities at the end of time, one of them may be the Omega Point Tipler Oracle, simulating countless billions of potential evolutions of the universe in an effort to discover something about the nature of being - ends up discovering something about the nature of drugs (at least simulated ones in this particular strand of the reality tree) - both god entities somewhat in conflict and with different ideas about how to escape the dying universe.

Sounds like it would be a awesome novel to read. Could relate character development to peoples struggle to become the best versions of themselves over time which i guess is fundamentally the purpose of our endless incarnations to learn and grow and become more loving.

Yeah man! I think the beauty of this kind of setting is that you really can do so much with alternate possible realities, winding back decisions made by the overseers, even interactions between the overseers and the inhabitants at points as the former get more and more frustrated and reckless and the latter... well, just keep on doing drugs... but as I say, my character development sucks... also, there's just SO MUCH possibility, I'm wary of making it into something that just has too much going on as to be too confusing or unreadable...

 

[Shady's Fox]

aye

u know better

we ok

listen

i wanna say this about reincarnation

I don't think you die and then you become an object or an animal -- I think you become a color.

 

[Shady's Fox]

Sun of eternity? you mean the olympic flame? haha

 

[Vastness]

The Kabbalic Tree of Life (Ain Soph Aur) is translated as "The Boundless Light" here, referring to the godhead from which all existences springs.

Used to be a lot more interested in this stuff when I was younger and kinda into occultism and "magick" (bleurghh ). I'm embarrassed to admit I spent probably like £40 on that hefty tome by the same title by Aleister Crowley (or more likely, got my mum to buy it for me) before giving it away a few years later having concluded that I did not, and would not ever, probably, developed magical powers. No matter how often I did tbe Ritual of the Pentagram with my own Satanic deities substituted for the advisory archangel.

But as I say... I love the symbolism.

Malkuth at the bottom is Earth - Nephesch I think is probably the underworld or something.

Interestingly - although probably the original designers did not have this in mind - each circle or "sphere" actually presents a planet, with the exception of Keter, the crown, maybe the city of god or something, I dunno. But the other top 2 - Uranus and Neptune - will likely be the last of the outer giants we conquer before turning back towards out own god of ancient times - our Sun.

Once we have harnessed the power of our sun, we will be a Kardaschev II civilisation, and can start to think about venturing outwards into Ain (nothing... at first)... if we survive, and flourish, our frontiers are now Boundless (Ain Soph)... and if we can hold our species and our civilisation together, preseve the light of consciousness in the boundless nothingness, the rewards will be Boundless Light, Light Without Limit, for any species that can struggle it's way from the primordial swamp into the depths of space and flourish and survive, will gain an understanding of the laws of nature and the universe along the way that will make it akin to a god... this is my hope for humankind... that we will be the progenitor species of the Omega Point godmind I hope to eventually write about...

 

[psy997]

Man... I should really fucking devote more time to writing that book... but, I suck at character development. Would be interested to hear if any of you guys think it's an interesting idea, might be a littler too obscure I'm aware for general audiences...

EDIT: Updated with the new KickStarter @Vastness

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/novelbase/novelbase-a-writers-introspection-tool

 

[Img_9999]

@Vastness I've had various flavors of most of those, but I think what really drove many of them home was co-administering ketamine with tryptamines. There's sort of a deeply vexing space in the combination where I'm able to take back more than a normal ketamine experience, bits and pieces at the margins, but much less than a solo DMT or mushroom experience... though there's tons of time spent in that combined space where nothing has come back, despite massive and prolonged co-administration with DMT.

I was going to say this exact thing: weirdly enough, combining psychedelics, or even just weed, makes K-Holes more vivid and easier to remember. Usually weed just adds amnesia to other experiences, but not holes. Nowadays I hardly ever hole without at least a small hit of weed before, it makes it so much better and more psychedelic.

I get this, I think. I often get a sense of touching the infinite - again, this comes with the psychedelic territory - but with ketamine there's a distinct sensation, find, of once again tapping into some kind of deep energy conduit that runs beneath the fabric of the universe itself... it begins with that telltale buzzing sound usually... followed by drifting upwards, into something I can only describe as a soft cosmic web, and once I touch it,s it's like each tendril is some kind of link into another realm, another time, another mode of being...

This really resonated with my experience as well ..! It's so hard to put into words and so abstract and hardly explainable that it is really surprising that others seem to have the same experience as well. (Or rather interpret the experienced phenomenology in the same terms).

I think the philosophy you were refering to is still platonism; The world of ideas was for Plato exactly what you described, a separate realm where immutable and everlasting substances reside, of which our world is but an imperfect reflection.

Also, I dig your novel idea, sounds interesting and very original.

 

[JackARoe]

I actually do like write ups like Vastness typed up, bits and pieces make sense. Not much experience but I do consider my one of two profound ketamine experiences involving seeing behind the scenes of reality and the fabric of it. Complete with prop lights like on a TV set behind that reality.

When it comes to bringing back stuff one of my favorite books is The Scientist by John C Lilly. Fabulous write ups. CC Control, very relatable. I know Lilly was heavy for a year, but I think at this point in time many of you all far surpassed in terms of time and amount what Lilly did. I think he said he mostly stopped after that year (but who knows). Timothy Wyllie is also fascinating. In Dolphins, ET's and Angels he talks about a lot of concepts that became more clearer when he was on the Hamilton's Pharmacopeia PCP episode. He wanted to know how cetaceans record their history and he was told on PCP that the patterns on a star fish record it and pass it forward. I find that fascinating. Now any normal person could be a wise ass and call Timothy a drugged out hallucinator. But there is an element of truth in some of these concepts. The book is kind of straigh laced and does not mention PCP or LSD. :D Everytime I read it I say aloud "what about the drugs Tim" lol. He came clean on Hamilton's Pharmacopeia. I have to say, another straight laced book littered with concepts of entities and angels is Ask Your Angel. No mention of drugs though.

DM Turner was also good at describing ketamine space mixed with psychedelics. Ride the cosmic wave. Very good trip reports. He was honest enough to say he had a ketamine problem and felt DMT was warning him that it was a "frankenstein molecule" that doesn't follow shamanic rules and that he should drop it. I mean that is in and of itself is quite an insight if taken at face value.

Some people here I understand too. I understood a lot of what Vortech was writing about (RIP). I have to say some others sound totally luny so much respect to you all that can write up in a way to share with others what the experience was like. I like trip reports. Saves me from having to submit myself to actually taking these drugs. :D

 

[Vastness]

EDIT: Updated with the new KickStarter @Vastness

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/novelbase/novelbase-a-writers-introspection-tool

Thanks man that looks great will try to commit to this for sure... would be nice to indulge some kind of creative hobby between just work, mundanity, and getting fucked up... I tried setting a goal I think in January to write 500 words a day... it maybe lasted until February... another problem I feel I have is creating a coherent, overarching narrative that isnt just fleshing out the synopsis and will br interesting throughout... but, could be also that I've just never tried, like with many things.

This really resonated with my experience as well ..! It's so hard to put into words and so abstract and hardly explainable that it is really surprising that others seem to have the same experience as well. (Or rather interpret the experienced phenomenology in the same terms).

I think the philosophy you were refering to is still platonism; The world of ideas was for Plato exactly what you described, a separate realm where immutable and everlasting substances reside, of which our world is but an imperfect reflection.

Also, I dig your novel idea, sounds interesting and very original.

Thanks! And yeah probably you're right, is all Plato, was trying to look at Plato's ideas through a modern lense I guess... which is easy to do for sure, IMO... didnt have any flat screen TVs in Plato's day.


Flushed my last 30-40g of kratom today. Cant wait to wake up and not have any tomorrow. Got some clonazepam I plan to take sparingly though, hopefully that'll be enough.

 

[cosmic charlie]

That's good dude, do you think you will have any withdrawals from the Kratom @Vastness?

I've been doing amazing in regards to lowering my Opioids and I'm now at 2mgs Bupe per day and I'm completely stable somehow. I had like one day that I felt shitty and withdrawish but I took the Flmodafinil/F-Phenibut combo and shook it off. Three weeks ago I was at 8mgs of Bupe a day and took that amount as a minimum for a few years. So yeah the taper went surprisingly easy and I'm just gonna stick right here for the time being and drop to 1mg eventually for a couple weeks eventually and then hop onto Kratom a few weeks.

Have like 700 grams Kratom tucked away and after that is gone I have 5 bottles of Loperamide 2mg with 96 count each bottle and the final taper will be with those and then Opioid Free. It will be the first time in about 5 years or so and I'm slightly nervous but ready to give it a shot. Made so much progress over the last month bettering myself and it feels good to have people proud of me for a change, my girl told me the other day that the way I am now reminds her of why she fell in love with me. But that she would be lying if she said she wasn't scared I might relapse and that I still have to earn back more trust. But just her saying this gave me alot of hope and strength and motivation to continue forward.

 

[JackARoe]

Good luck guys, I hope for success. I too want off opiods. Between years of heroin, methadone, many many years getting poppy pods to our flower store from Holland and now kratom I can not remember a year free. It is amazing how long I maintained on strong poppy tea in the AM and PM. No bad karma like stealing money for heroin either. (that I did time for) It made me realize availability is the drug problem for people. Just give them what they need and they go about their day. (Except alcoholics. lol frigg em)

Let's face it, with time and money it is possible. I made peace with kratom. I am alive you know? I dont get bad withdrawal. Just sluggish, sneezing and that skin thing. I think having done poppy withdrawal quite a few times kratom seems like a little sister and has a ceiling in effects and withdrawal. Gabapetin covers it. The thing kratom has is like kicking a small opiate habit and a caffeine habit. Anyone who drinks coffee for years in the morning try and stop. It is no way easy. But to stop I need time and money. The rat race is draining. LIke trying to do anything but getting pulled under again. Can't even get air.

Quite a few people here going for the big change. I can feel it too. Good luck and good vibes to all. Go to that cabin in the head and get healthy.

 

[Xorkoth]

It's going pretty well so far, just wrote in a journal so don't feel like typing much more, but the power has been out about 6 out of 18 hours we've been here... it's on now though and apparently not normal and the power company says it's fine now, according to the person we're renting it from. Nevertheless it's been a fun and instructive day. Can't believe it's only been a little more than one day, seems a lot longer for some reason.

 

[Xorkoth]

Today was the suboxone day... now that's gone, tomorrow, going to try for nothing at all, then Lyrica, then DXM, Lyrica, DXM, then hopefully out of the woods, I have some loperamide for any trailing shits or restlessness. My buddy is doing well too, seems alcohol is not going to be a physical withdrawal, but he's been drinking tons of sparkling waters just to have a carbonated beverage to sip. He's dealing with nicotine cravings pretty well and the sub held him on kratom. He's nervous about when he is dealing weith both withdrawals at the same time. I told him Lyrica will probably just make him feel great and forget about both of the withdrawals, he'll see. I feel like it could be a bad idea to involve other drugs, but we have hard and fast, mutually-discussed rules, the goal is 2 weeks in, no drugs at all from then to the end. These comfort meds are to avoid cold turkey acute withdrawal torture, right now we're engaged in the experience, talking a lot about it, exercising, doing a lot of good things, which would not be happening if we were sitting in our rooms trying to numb out with TV and feeling like shit. If we can bypass the acute withdrawal, let's try to do that, and then from there we'll be in a great place to get as much from this experience as possible.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Going to try a dutch 250 ug tab next week to see if its actually dosed right and suppose to be very clean so hopefully it is. Just woke up earlier today and felt more clearer which might of been the antidepression of the ketamine.

 

[PYTH]

@Vastness thanks for the reply, great stuff, though I'm a little too wiped out to comment in detail. More than ketamine you're making me want a huge ol' pile of adderall

[...]metaphorically, I no longer see that it makes sense to draw any distinction between god and the forces of nature... but I've found this a very hard thing to convey. Arguments for the origin of existence being either "random" or "a conscious choice" seem utterly nonsensical to me because I genuinely don't understand the distinction any more, and equally (sorry, massive tangent) this viewpoint I feel makes it easy for me to entertain the idea of invisible entities existing in real but also conceptual ways, like fluctuating self organising patterns in the quantum foam.

Yes! And yes to most of the above. I guess another common interconnected 'ketatryptamine' insight I've had, basically a summation and simplification of what I've already written, is of everything that exists, perceptible or no, simply being elements of a vast ultracomplex system or machine... where, yes, randomness is essentially irrelevant.

As an aside, it's fun watching television while tripping and seeing crowds of people or animals rearrange themselves into perfect fractal patterns or fibonacci ratios while still looking photorealistic and not 'melty' at all, just the single birds, humans, antelopes, or whatever photrealistically ordering themselves mathematically in real time while the backgrounds and framing stay undisturbed.

Man... I should really fucking devote more time to writing that book... but, I suck at character development. Would be interested to hear if any of you guys think it's an interesting idea, might be a littler too obscure I'm aware for general audiences...

Do it!

I was going to say this exact thing: weirdly enough, combining psychedelics, or even just weed, makes K-Holes more vivid and easier to remember. Usually weed just adds amnesia to other experiences, but not holes. Nowadays I hardly ever hole without at least a small hit of weed before, it makes it so much better and more psychedelic.

A while back I had a really really bad experience vaping weed oil coming out of a hole, took too heavy a hit and had a super irritating, lung scraping coughing fit for like 15 minutes and got too stoned, heart started feeling like it was going to explode. Massive phsycial discomfort. Permanently stopped smoking anything (but DMT) shortly after. This year came back around to more mild edibles and yeah, definite K enhancer if I'm in the mood. It's possible THC is being somewhat neuroprotective against some of K's negative effects, increasing visuals while protecting memory? Wild unsubstantiated theory. It's actually been formally studied in the affirmative w/ LSD, DMT, and Psilocybin.

DM Turner was also good at describing ketamine space mixed with psychedelics. Ride the cosmic wave. Very good trip reports. He was honest enough to say he had a ketamine problem and felt DMT was warning him that it was a "frankenstein molecule" that doesn't follow shamanic rules and that he should drop it. I mean that is in and of itself is quite an insight if taken at face value.

I'll have to check out some of DM Turner's stuff. Wyllie was in two episodes, there was a Ketamine episode he starred in 2nd season. Both are highly recommended!

 

[Vastness]

Timothy Wyllie is also fascinating. In Dolphins, ET's and Angels he talks about a lot of concepts that became more clearer when he was on the Hamilton's Pharmacopeia PCP episode. He wanted to know how cetaceans record their history and he was told on PCP that the patterns on a star fish record it and pass it forward. I find that fascinating.

Haha, I remember that episode, didnt realise he wrote a book. Hamilton is the best at just absolutely deadpanning people about their really wacky ideas.

He was honest enough to say he had a ketamine problem and felt DMT was warning him that it was a "frankenstein molecule" that doesn't follow shamanic rules and that he should drop it. I mean that is in and of itself is quite an insight if taken at face value.

I like this. I've said it here many times and probably will continue to (to the ire of some hardcore disso fans, I'm aware, although I would sometimes include myself within that group) that ketamine and, indeed, I think most dissociatives in general are very deceptive, I've described them before as "pretend psychedelics", which maybe does some of them a little bit of a disservice since obviously they have their own unique quirks and character... but because of the significant physical and mental downsides I can't help seeing them as a kind of fairly destructive, addictive narcotic hiding behind a psychedelic facade. That knowledge won't stop me going back to them eventually though, I'm sure..

That's good dude, do you think you will have any withdrawals from the Kratom @Vastness

Today so far... it's not been so bad. But I've taken a measured 50mgish dose of amphetamine to combat the fatigue and 1mg clonazepam to combat the other shitness.

I wasn't expecting crazy withdrawals this time, but I definitely have experienced much worse. I remember the first time quitting cold turkey, only from 15-20gpd, mind, but maybe for a good few weeks every day... and also sometimes combined with speed or an ~afinil... I think that combination somehow really enhances the brain or maybe adrenal trashing effects of kratom... and I could not get out of bed for a week. I actually thought I had COVID... then recently it happened again after a much shorter period of, I thought, lighter use and this time I was out of it only for maybe 4 or 5 days but was taking naps in the middle of the day, just depressed about everything... this time round I started to notice those telltale signs... waking up in the morning and having less energy... needing to sleep for 10hours+... also it's kinda like my body just started to reject it, I just couldn't get a good buzz, or a lasting one, unless probably I went up to like 10g+ in a single dose which I basically wasn't willing to do... so that's gotta be it sadly.

I'd like to get back on tianeptine occasionally as a seemingly more forgiving atypical opiate but the last few times I've tried I've developed a distinct, if vague, pain in my liver area if I go above even the lowest prescribed dose... so I guess my foray into opiates might be over for the moment.

I'm a bit wary of developing a benzo problem in place of this kratom thing, I have been taking benzos for a week straight, maybe 10 days+ now, for the most part... starting with 1-2mg etizolam for sleep, and just these last few days 2-3mg of clonazepam because I've been taking speed which makes me kind of anxious lol... but I need it to function with my work right now... I just have to wrap up this annoying project and then probably get back on just phenibut for a while...

I feel like it could be a bad idea to involve other drugs, but we have hard and fast, mutually-discussed rules, the goal is 2 weeks in, no drugs at all from then to the end. These comfort meds are to avoid cold turkey acute withdrawal torture, right now we're engaged in the experience, talking a lot about it, exercising, doing a lot of good things, which would not be happening if we were sitting in our rooms trying to numb out with TV and feeling like shit. If we can bypass the acute withdrawal, let's try to do that, and then from there we'll be in a great place to get as much from this experience as possible.

Yeah, I get that dubiousness about involving drugs to get off drugs, but I think you guys made the right move. Drugs aren't all equivalent obviously as much as prohibitionism and various well meaning but misguided sobriety cults try to drill it into us that they are... many times though I've spent days just wiped out and feeling awful when a low dose of something other than whatever it was that caused the problem in the first place (probably kratom recently, lol) would have allowed me to have an alright and at least somewhat productive day... but somehow in the depths of that substance induced depression I often also fall victim to the whole mass drug generalisation myth and get a stubborn "NO! NO MORE DRUGS OF ANY KIND!" kind of feeling even if it means I really suffer for it and basically waste an entire day just vapidly watching Netflix/YouTube or just lying down in the dark.

Anyway... glad to hear everyone is apparently doing so well! Good luck to you all in your endeavours.

 

[Slater Says]

Finishing a delta 8 THC vape right now. Got from a hemp dispensary down the street. Delta 9 is still prohibited here. I have to say I am satisfied with the effects of this stuff even though it is said to be less powerful than delta 9. It is a huge step up from CBD flower in terms of stoning effect. Just ate a low dose of the Ecuador species I grew. Have a half ounce of the fungus left I gave away so much more than planned already. One more friend to share with who plays in a Jerry Garcia tribute band.

Never take ketamine alone in the bath if you aren't taking low doses?

Going to try a dutch 250 ug tab next week to see if its actually dosed right and suppose to be very clean so hopefully it is. Just woke up earlier today and felt more clearer which might of been the antidepression of the ketamine.

Ketamine is a wonder drug isn't it? No wonder they are using it for therapy now. If only I can make it down to Mexico this spring break to get medicine for my cat.

Nice I have been having some very clean stuff from the Netherlands recently. Even local which is a giant surprise, some of my coworkers take psychedelics.

 

[Vastness]

Never take ketamine alone in the bath if you aren't taking low doses?

Never take ketamine alone in or near any body of water you can drown in - whether alone or, ideally, with company, unless your company is going to stay stone cold sober and make it their mission to make sure you don't drown.

Baths, flotation tanks, swimming pools... It baffles me that people keep doing this and keep dying in them. It's also sad and tragic of course, but please, just don't do it. Ketamine incapacitation isn't like being drunk (where you shouldn't try to swim alone in deep water either, but there's a chance you can flail your way to safety)... if you get in trouble, you're probably fucked.

I had an ex who was like oh no I know how much to take, I'm careful... this probably sounds like I'm about to say next I hear she drowned in the bath lol, but fortunately she didn't, at least as far as I know, mercifully I haven't spoken to her in years. But, no. Just no, it's bad policy full stop, no matter how well you think you know yourself. Like drunk or even "tipsy" driving.

Just think also - if you do drown in that goddamn body of water, think what a field day the media is going to have foaming at the mouth reporting on the dangers of "KETAMINE, the CLUB DRUG which is also A HORSE TRANQUILIZER..." urgh, makes me sick even imagining it.

I used to have a card I carried with me almost all the time that said something like "If I die under the influence of drugs, or if drugs can be said in any way to have been a causative factor in my death, I request that my death not be used to further the cause of prohibition."

...It was really professionally produced, I can't remember where I got it, just tried to find on Google images but no luck... will have to try to dig it up. Every drug user should have one, IMO.

Oh yeah, anyway, please don't take ketamine in the bath.

 

[Buzz Lightbeer]

Lmao, that card, that's so good. I never even thought of that, I'm imagining real business cards here, like that scene in American Pyscho

They have to honor that request? Like people would really care

 

[Vastness]

Hah, yeah, I dunno if they have to honour it... but it's something at least. If I find it I'll take a picture.

 

[Img_9999]

Probably they wouldn't feel obligated to honor it, but surely if someone died carrying something like that it would made it to the news. Makes me lol in a morbid way. Dunno about it preventing the media from further pushing prohibitionist agenda, but a story like that would at least open the debate.