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☮ Social ☮ PD Social Distancing Talk Thread: Swirly Congregation That's 100% Pandemic-Proof

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I think we're largely in agreement, Img.

Img_9999 said:
I personally think that the rocketing/fidgeting/nervous movement is actually a result of anxiety or excess energy, and it's not exactly therapeutic but closer to a "coping mechanism", a way of spending disordered psychic energy that would otherwise become anxiogenic.
[...]
This, however, I definitely agree with. I think that the altered state can sometimes serve as a sort of "exposure therapy", and I've experienced an enhancement of my own capacity for dealing with anxiety since I started tripping. I can recognize it better, and I've learned to manage it better since I've experienced anxiety and its physical symptoms while on psychedelics.
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When I speak of the anxiolytic effects of psychedelics, this is exactly what I'm referring to: a coping mechanism resulting from something like exposure therapy.

I'll pose another question: if some form of activity, whether physical or mental, can be used as a way to cope with anxiety (or any other mood disorder), shouldn't a psychedelic that encourages such activity facilitate permanently learning that coping skill more robustly? This is the gist of my argument for the therapeutic effects of more stimulating psychedelics.

I also want to be clear that I'm not totally reducing psychedelic psychotherapy to stereotypy alone. If we could sit around flapping our hands for a few hours and get all the benefits of a trip, we wouldn't need to waste money on drugs. Stereotypy is just one of a vast array of potential ways that humans naturally deal with their emotions, and thus potential lessons reaped from a psychedelic trip.


Also, since we are talking about it, psilocybin is probably the psychedelic which therapeutic potential has the been most documented, but at the same time I would say is one of the less physically stimulating, which could mean that the therapeutic effect of psychedelics is independent from their motor stimulation.
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I think psilocybin's therapeutic potential is most documented by virtue of being most studied. I agree that it's one of the less physically stimulating psychedelics, and as I mentioned I also personally find it to be one of the most anxiogenic. It would be extremely fascinating to have some studies giving us proper apples-to-apples comparisons between psilocybin and LSD as treatments for various conditions...
 
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Cosmic Charlie said:
Oh my goodness I know how you feel, since at work the whole place has a stereo system throughout it. They use Spotify and sometimes I hear the same songs over and over. Actually listen to the Jingle Bell Rock as we speak. I'm just trying to keep my mind distracted and ignore the stuff.
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Wait what the fuck someone told me you died. I'm glad you didn't.
TheAppleCore said:
I think psilocybin's therapeutic potential is most documented by virtue of being most studied. I agree that it's one of the less physically stimulating psychedelics, and as I mentioned I also personally find it to be one of the most anxiogenic. It would be extremely fascinating to have some studies giving us proper apples-to-apples comparisons between psilocybin and LSD as treatments for various conditions...
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Psilocybin is absolutely more anxiogenic. 4-AcO-DMT much less so. I've always thought that the best route to deploying a psychedelic therapy in the nearish future would be to develop 4-AcO-DMT as a drug, submit it, get it scheduled II or III; so, don't have to bother with descheduling psilocybin, and it's not an analogue if it's already a controlled substance at another level. It's a nicer drug altogether IMO although shrooms are nice in their own right.
 
Pretty much the only pop artists who I've found to do tolerable Christmas music would be the incomparable Aimee Mann (who has a sort of tradition of doing Christmas songs, has more than one Christmas album, hipsterish videos, and even inserts a depressing (because of course) Christmas Carol reference into 1994's Whatever, which is a truly inspired album, and another depressing song, "I Was Thinking I Could Clean Up for Christmas", which I used to post annually on Bluelight) and, believe it or not, Mariah Carey singing the hell out of All I Want for Christmas is You. There are a few, of course, but in the environment of the current year, even talented singers are party to revisionist bullshit and the output of most others is banal.

I'm sure I'm missing some other artists, but really, the best secular Christmas music was written in the pre-Elvis or shortly post-Elvis era, mostly by Jews (because of course.) I have no use for any of the stuff that came later with a more rockist sensibility (like the aforementioned "Jingle Bell Rock"), and really, my tastes run to hymns written in (or translated from) Latin, if I have to listen to something Christmasy. Mostly, I try to stay out of public spaces during Christmas music time because that shit agitates me. The mall at Christmastime is more spooky than Halloween especially if you are on drugs.
 
Hey, SKL. Nice seeing you around.

TheAppleCore said:
When I speak of the anxiolytic effects of psychedelics, this is exactly what I'm referring to: a coping mechanism resulting from something like exposure therapy.

I'll pose another question: if some form of activity, whether physical or mental, can be used as a way to cope with anxiety (or any other mood disorder), shouldn't a psychedelic that encourages such activity facilitate permanently learning that coping skill more robustly? This is the gist of my argument for the therapeutic effects of more stimulating psychedelics.

I also want to be clear that I'm not totally reducing psychedelic psychotherapy to stereotypy alone. If we could sit around flapping our hands for a few hours and get all the benefits of a trip, we wouldn't need to waste money on drugs. Stereotypy is just one of a vast array of potential ways that humans naturally deal with their emotions, and thus potential lessons reaped from a psychedelic trip.
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I see and I agree. I initially understood you were saying something along the lines of stereotypy being the cause for anxiety relief when I actually see anxiety as the cause for stereotypy. But yeah, it makes sense to me that executing these compensatory movements would help in learning to cope with anxiety.
 
SKL said:
Psilocybin is absolutely more anxiogenic. 4-AcO-DMT much less so.
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Incidentally, the couple times I used them, I found 4-AcO-MET and 4-AcO-MiPT a bit smoother than their hydroxy counterparts, although in the grand scheme of things, identifying differences between corresponding 4-HO-* and 4-AcO-* tryptamines feels like splitting hairs.

Xorkoth said:
God that one is the worst.
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This is some Christmas music that I can actually stand listening to.
 
Cosmic Charlie said:
Oh my goodness I know how you feel, since at work the whole place has a stereo system throughout it. They use Spotify and sometimes I hear the same songs over and over. Actually listen to the Jingle Bell Rock as we speak. I'm just trying to keep my mind distracted and ignore the stuff.
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There's always so much pressure on the guy choosing the music, import thing is that there should be always room for possible feedback
 
TheAppleCore said:
4-AcO-MiPT
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Class drug. Definitely. The hydroxy is amazing as well. Short lived, sparkly. I remember doing bumps with an oldschool bluelighter alternating 4-HO-MiPT and ketamine. It was magical.

On the other hand, I just attended my first NA meeting. Had been doing AA, but felt like a bunch of junkies was more my speed. They didn't disappoint. A men's group full of people I could really rock with to be honest. Reminded me much more of myself than most alcoholics. Being honest with myself, I only really chose AA because alcohol was involved in the most spectacular fuckup in my life, but drugs were consistent. The NA doctrine is about recovering from "addiction," generally, which includes drugs and alcohol both. I won't miss either. They are terrible, to be honest. When I praise the virtues of tryptamines, I'm doing so from a particular point in my life which was magical but honestly really quite fucked up (just look at the number of dead homeys who's Bluelight shtick was primarily psychedelics. More of them in the Shrine than OD people for fuck's sake.)
Christmas music
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(alt. very nicely arranged version with all female voices-my favorite "instrument")


 
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Too true. I think many people who get into psychedelics just get into drugs in general and are extremely experimental people. Sadly a lot of people end up on opiates. Hell, these days you can just try opiates and die. It's fucked up.
 
SKL said:
Wait what the fuck someone told me you died. I'm glad you didn't.

Psilocybin is absolutely more anxiogenic. 4-AcO-DMT much less so. I've always thought that the best route to deploying a psychedelic therapy in the nearish future would be to develop 4-AcO-DMT as a drug, submit it, get it scheduled II or III; so, don't have to bother with descheduling psilocybin, and it's not an analogue if it's already a controlled substance at another level. It's a nicer drug altogether IMO although shrooms are nice in their own right.
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You’re thinking of CosmicG. He did indeed pass on...

I also agree with the thought that 4-AcO-DMT has better therapeutic potential/less anxogenic properties. It's everything mushrooms wish they were and you don't even have to taste it.
 
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Xorkoth said:
Too true. I think many people who get into psychedelics just get into drugs in general and are extremely experimental people. Sadly a lot of people end up on opiates. Hell, these days you can just try opiates and die. It's fucked up.
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Yeah I think the correlation is that many PD heads end up on opioids due to experimentation or sometimes depression, and if you do that and start fucking with fent or “heroin” these days that’s pretty much it, you die it seems.

I use opioids a lot more these days than I should but I like to think I know where the line of danger lies, and mostly with stuff like Suboxone they make it more ‘OD’ proof. I don't mess with anything sketchy, just verified sources.

But enough about that :confused:
 
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Oh man, that looks delicious. :) I'll try to remember to post more photos, I love cooking, though I've been slacking since my girl has been away... plus just kind of in a relatively bad place (sort of at least), so everything feels harder, hence less cooking.
 
Meh... I just feel run down, tired of all the stress, really, really tired of it. I actually relapsed on opiates over the past couple of months, long story, anyway right now I'm experiencing minor withdrawals as I put them in the past again (just a couple of days ago though), which is making me feel blah, so that has a lot to do with it, but also just the last few years have been brutal, even though there's also a lot of good stuff that's happened too. I've been feeling like just curling up on the couch and watching TV after work every day. I haven't been doing that, but like, cooking a complex meal for myself feels draining to think about. I feel like hibernating.
 
Yeah winter also sucks for me. It's a variety of factors. Good news is I get to see my girlfriend again after more than 2 months, next week. We're both flying in to the same airport within 20 minutes of each other and then my brother is gonna pick us up. I'm hoping this withdrawal is done by then, I really wasn't doing them very much or for long, but enough to get some withdrawal. I don't want to feel out of sorts when we reunite, but if I do, it's better than prolonging this. I'm pretty pissed at myself because it was almost 6 years without even any cravings and then all of a sudden... the first time was the last time I saw my dad before he died. It sort of re-opened the door after that and it was a very slow increase in frequency over the summer and fall. I really want to feel good and confident when I go see my family, but I know if I prolong stopping again until after I get back then it's just going to suck worse. Well I have a week until then so hopefully it'll just be a few days of feeling blah and then be over.
 
SKL said:
Class drug. Definitely. The hydroxy is amazing as well. Short lived, sparkly. I remember doing bumps with an oldschool bluelighter alternating 4-HO-MiPT and ketamine. It was magical.
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It's a gem, for sure. Sparkly is the perfect word to describe it. Probably my favorite tryptamine at the moment.

On the other hand, I just attended my first NA meeting. Had been doing AA, but felt like a bunch of junkies was more my speed. They didn't disappoint. A men's group full of people I could really rock with to be honest. Reminded me much more of myself than most alcoholics. Being honest with myself, I only really chose AA because alcohol was involved in the most spectacular fuckup in my life, but drugs were consistent. The NA doctrine is about recovering from "addiction," generally, which includes drugs and alcohol both. I won't miss either. They are terrible, to be honest. When I praise the virtues of tryptamines, I'm doing so from a particular point in my life which was magical but honestly really quite fucked up (just look at the number of dead homeys who's Bluelight shtick was primarily psychedelics. More of them in the Shrine than OD people for fuck's sake.)
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Glad to hear you've found a community of people you feel some connection with, that's important for sure. I need more of that in my life. I think you're making an overly broad generalization to say that "drugs and alcohol" are "terrible", though. It looks to me like you've had some negative experiences with psychoactives, and as a result you're making a blanket judgment about them as a whole, when the reality is not so black and white. Even the category of psychedelics alone is so diverse that it often seems inappropriate to lump them all together; some of them feel downright psychologically toxic, while I consider others indispensible tools.

Xorkoth said:
Meh... I just feel run down, tired of all the stress, really, really tired of it. I actually relapsed on opiates over the past couple of months, long story, anyway right now I'm experiencing minor withdrawals as I put them in the past again (just a couple of days ago though), which is making me feel blah, so that has a lot to do with it, but also just the last few years have been brutal, even though there's also a lot of good stuff that's happened too. I've been feeling like just curling up on the couch and watching TV after work every day. I haven't been doing that, but like, cooking a complex meal for myself feels draining to think about. I feel like hibernating.
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Man, I really feel this post, particularly as I recently went through a period like this myself. I'm feeling a little better now, which I think might be a result of returning to LSD again after taking a break for awhile to experiment with some other psychedelics, but it might just be a coincidence.

In any case, I think it's good to recognize that everyone needs rest from time to time, and not to be too hard on yourself for taking some time to slow things down and hibernate, as you say (within pragmatism, that is). I'm sorry you haven't been 100% up to speed, and I hope you will be back to your old self soon. :)
 
i did 4-ho-met tonight. hands down the best expierence I’ve had with it. my usually grey blanket was glowing neon green. the exposed brick in my apartment was unbelievable. i can see why this drug has been dubbed “color.”

i also had a crazy visual that i’ve never had on shrooms or acid. this energy was in the air. not against the wall or a filter, but moving through space. it was dragons and i don’t know swirling together. it was immense. this was an open eye visual. a translucent energy i could see writhing in 3d form.
 
4-ho-met is the most visual of the limited array of psychs I have tried. Also most prone to giving me fear of supernatural 'entities' being present. Wasn't fond of it despite the great visuals.
 
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