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☮ Social ☮ PD Social: Cross-dimensional chatter. Now featuring mesphereomeantoliopeme.

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What was his view on the matter? if you don't mind elaborating :)

If I recall correctly, that analogues probably circulate in smallish amounts, and that, as a larger factor, impure reagents, particularly impure diethylamine could produce various compounds as-yet untested in man (unlike, say, iso-LSD, which has been tested up to, I believe, milligram amounts, maybe even higher, and found have no effect whatsoever) which might possibly be psychoactive, or modulate psychoactive effects of LSD, at miniscule doses. He definitely didn't figure that it was all psychological, as some do. That there are differences between batches is more or less indisputable IMO.
 
This, said more kindly than I can, apparently.

That's the thing with amphetamines, they can turn you into an ass-hole :D (haha, sorry, couldn't resist) =D

I find when on them and in a stressed state I get very "demanding" of people around me. I find amphetamine to be one of the toughest drugs to balance ever. Using helps me get work done, but makes me edgy and sometimes pushy. I try to use only when necessary, and when it's unnecessary it's usually outdoor physically active fun stuff.

That's something I've wondered about ADHD scripts. Are they ever prescribed on an "as needed" basis? As in if you find you don't need it that day you just skip the dose? Benzo's are usually prescribed on the basis of only taking it when you have an anxiety attack, some scripts are every single day but a lot are "only take it when you need it".

I don't see why that couldn't be the case but it seems as if all amphetamine scripts are tightly scheduled doses every day.
 
If I recall correctly, that analogues probably circulate in smallish amounts, and that, as a larger factor, impure reagents, particularly impure diethylamine could produce various compounds as-yet untested in man (unlike, say, iso-LSD, which has been tested up to, I believe, milligram amounts, maybe even higher, and found have no effect whatsoever) which might possibly be psychoactive, or modulate psychoactive effects of LSD, at miniscule doses. He definitely didn't figure that it was all psychological, as some do. That there are differences between batches is more or less indisputable IMO.

Haha, I knew it. :D Certain batches just seem "off" and sketchy, that's always been the case. Other batches are pure golden light. It makes sense, though -- I'm sure much of the time, the diethylamine used in the synthesis is produced in-house. I could certainly imagine some shady clandestine chemists choosing not to distill it before using it to make LSD.
 
I dont smoke meth instead of doing dex...i havent bought more yet, nor do i intend on getting into the habit of buying it a lot.
currently in correge.
5 years?
a long way away from this shithole, living on my own.
i've USED vaporized methamphetamine, and intend on indulging again, but i have yet to purchase more methamphetamine (and as i'm sure you know, i have only bought it once)
 
ADHD scripts are usually written to be take on a consistent basis (e.g. I am prescribed dextroamphetamine, 5mg, t.i.d.) But in practice patients are often advised to take "drug holidays" so as to prevent the buildup of tolerance and of general unpleasantness that can come from taking them on a daily basis. For me, I don't take them on weekends unless I am trying to do a lot of writing, but they are essential for the work-day. But I do try and not take them every day that I work, for the very reasons mentioned.

You are so right about the "balancing" aspect. Too little, and there is not the desired effect, and in fact it can be a bit distracting, not the least reason for this being that there is the urge to dose higher. Too much, there is irritability, insomnia, paranoia, anorexia (that is, in the non-specific sense, loss of appetite), &c. And insomnia and anorexia compound irritability something fierce. For me that is the largest problem, probably.

The thing about amphetamines, though, is amphetamine abuse is such a different animal than therapeutic use. The doses used by the typical meth abuser are higher by an order of magnitude than the therapeutic dose ... realize that methamphetamine is available by prescription in doses no greater than 5mg, and dexedrine 10mg (IR) or 15mg (XR) ... although an application to the FDA was recently approved for 20mg and 30mg IR dexedrine tabs. If I recall correctly the maximum dose in the PDR for dexamp is 60mg/day, I forget what it is for methamp & mixed salts. But none of these amounts even approach what an "average, recreational" dose of methamphetamine would be, in terms of hooving a line, smoking a bowl, or rigging up a shot of the stuff. The effects and the pharmacology are different up at the higher end of the spectrum, and above when I'm talking about the bad effects of too much amphetamines, I'm only talking about at clinical levels ... at the higher end of recreational doses it's just astounding in terms of psychosis, bad physical effects, all of that.

Properly managed I'm convinced that amphetamines can do wonders for your mood, motivation, concentration, also to treat anergia, anhedonia (one of the few drugs to treat these aspects of depression with any real efficacy). But the proper management is difficult, even if you're not "abusing" them "recreationally", per se. And if you are, forget it, you might as well be using a different drug! Only ... it's the same drug. The one piece of good news in that, I guess, is that the TI is really high for amphetamines, much higher than any other "hard drug" I think.

For the record I like meth, but I would usually take it orally, in smallish (5-20 mg) doses or occasionally IV or smoke it. But for my purposes (utilitarian, workaday stimulation and aiding concentration) dexedrine is much better, and now that I am prescribed it, no reason to toy with meth. Methamphetamine has a flightiness, a rolliness to it, it is too euphoric and prosexual, too manicky, all these things get in the way of trying to get work done. And as far as fun goes I think cocaine (although I haven't seen good coke in years) or mephedrone (although talk about pro-sexual!) beat it hollow, but as far as getting my jollies off, stimulants were never really my bag.
 
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I'm sure much of the time, the diethylamine used in the synthesis is produced in-house

byproducts of insecticides and weed killers anyone? 8o Sounds like an urban legend about how to make drugs ... except it isn't ...
 
Yeah, A good dose for school work for me is 10mg of racemic, never, ever more than 20 in a day; that's where the side effects and demanding persona start to show. When I'm out camping and hiking though 2 - 15mg doses during the day makes for a good time. :)

And yeah, when I was researching LSD synth methods I found out if diethylamine wasn't unavailable to you, go get some DEET ;)

LMA; what's your program dude? you should talk more about stuff like that :) I didn't even know you were in college (BTW 'r' isn't a substitute for 'l' :p )
 
SKL, for what its worth to you, at least when i used it, i believe that i smoked 50-80mg per smoking session(and i've got a large tolerance to amphetamines as i'm sure you know) and be feeling the effects nicely...and i would be high as SHIT.
Methamphetamine is available by RX in whatever doses a doctor feels like prescribing, it just only comes in the form of 5mg IR tablets...look on ADHD forums online, nobody (or at least adults/teens) is RX'd 5mg a day methamphetamine.
SKL dexedrine IRs (i'm pretty sure brand name ones have been discontinued...) was only available as 5 milligram tablets...
you dont seem to understand much about the legitimate use of adhd medications (i mean the legitimate, therapeutic dosages and whatnot)...or at least you're forgetting that one tablet/pill does not necessarily equal one therapeutic dose.
Methamphetamine at least IME has far less side effects than d-amph (and thats the appeal of methamphetamine over d-amph), and desoxyn is also generally said to be the most effective medication for ADHD and cause less side effects.
SKL, i've got a question for you, when you use your medication as prescribed, do you feel any changes in your state of mind/emotions/thoughts?
when i took my medication as prescribed, it wouldn't make me feel different at all, it would just make me able to control my hyperactivity/inattentiveness to some degree..
socks, i'll answer your questions in a PM.
and R substituting for L is like how the city wok guy from south park talks lol..
 
It's amazing how little amphetamine really will have a worthwhile effect, and then to look at people banging quarter gram shots of criss. Just boggles my mind.
 
(I can't find the ignore button, LOL.)

LSDMDMA&10107430 said:
SKL, for what its worth to you, at least when i used it, i believe that i smoked 50-80mg per smoking session(and i've got a large tolerance to amphetamines as i'm sure you know) and be feeling the effects nicely...and i would be high as SHIT.

From what I understand this is on the low end of what some people who are really into meth do. But it's definitely a significant dose.

Methamphetamine is available by RX in whatever doses a doctor feels like prescribing, it just only comes in the form of 5mg IR tablets...look on ADHD forums online, nobody (or at least adults/teens) is RX'd 5mg a day methamphetamine.
SKL dexedrine IRs (i'm pretty sure brand name ones have been discontinued...) was only available as 5 milligram tablets...

In theory, it is still available at 5 & 10mg pills made by Barr, but the 10mg ones are on indefinite manufacturer back-order. There is a distinction between this and being discontinued. 10mg dexedrine tabs are still an FDA approved product, still in the pharmacoepia, and so on. But you can't get them. This seems to have to do with DEA quotas. Supposedly, next year, when the DEA quota for amphetamine rolls over, then they will be available again. There is a big shortage of Dexedrine as you may be aware. It was very difficult for me to find a pharmacy to fill my prescription (impossible to find 10mg, and then difficult to find 5mg.) And suppposedly another company has been given the green light for making dexedrine tablets as well, in even higher doses. And the spansules are still available (I think in 5, 10, 15mg). "Dexedrine," the brand name, though, is no more.

you dont seem to understand much about the legitimate use of adhd medications (i mean the legitimate, therapeutic dosages and whatnot)...or at least you're forgetting that one tablet/pill does not necessarily equal one therapeutic dose.

I clarified my post. I wasn't necessarily implying that the pills = a single dose, but certainly, the intent is not for people to be taking a 10-16 pills a day (as would be enough to get you "high as shit" as you describe it). The maximum dose in the PDR is 60mg/day for dexedrine, if I recall correctly, and for Adderall I believe it is similar. I forget what it is for Desoxyn. My fundamental point is that 50-80mg (or 100mg)+ of MA goes well beyond a therapeutic dose.

Methamphetamine at least IME has far less side effects than d-amph (and thats the appeal of methamphetamine over d-amph), and desoxyn is also generally said to be the most effective medication for ADHD and cause less side effects.

I disagree, along with a number of others that I know, but different people react to different drugs differently. Meth makes me feel "high", manicky, horny, has almost a rolling sort of sensation somewhere in the background due to it's higher 5-ht affinity. None of this is good for concentration.

SKL, i've got a question for you, when you use your medication as prescribed, do you feel any changes in your state of mind/emotions/thoughts?
when i took my medication as prescribed, it wouldn't make me feel different at all, it would just make me able to control my hyperactivity/inattentiveness to some degree..

I feel better able to concentrate, less foggy-headed, less anxious, less depressed. Nothing I would call "high," but it's definitely a substantive difference in my "state of mind."

For the record I've never been diagnosed with ADD (although I don't buy the claim that people who are feel the effects of amphetamines in a quantifiably different way than those who don't).
 
A non tolerant/beginning user and an addict using every day for years have wildly different doses SKL.
I was speaking recreationally, i have no idea about the therapeutic effectiveness of methamphetamine vs. d-amph, but considering methamph has less affinity for norepinephrine and only a slightly higher dopamine affinity than d-amph, i'd think therapeutically it would be just as effective.
At least on internet ADHD forums, desoxyn seems to be regarded as the most effective/best medication available.
are you forgetting the fact that MA is always going to be impure/not 100% purity when purchased off the street?
especially now with hillbilly dumbfucks using the "shake n bake" method to cook...
 
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I've gotten "pretty high" from 30-50mg of good meth.

But how high is high? How long is a piece of string? Really a silly debate.

I have a friend who takes 3x15mg =60mg dexedrine spansules a day. Sleeps, eats, all that normally, in fact, needs that dose to feel "normal." Now, if I took that, I would be "quite high."

So it varies between individuals and tolerances & everything. No doubt.

The only point here is that taking a "therapeutic" dose which, by definition, had ought to improve some complaint while not interfering with the rest of your functioning, is not the same as taking a "recreational" dose which, also more or less by definition, is about altering your consciousness beyond "normal functioning." Unless, of course, you're an addict, in which beyond-normal-functioning has become normal ... but anyway ... taking it for psychiatric or for utilitarian reasons is phenomenologically different than taking it for fun. That's all I'm getting at.
 
Fair enough SKL, fair enough, i'll admit you takign 5mg a day is far different than my 1-2 recreational uses per week (where i can/have used in excess of 300mg over a period of 8 hours/i need more than 100mg oral in order to even get a little bit high).
the XR in pharm amphetamines, other than vyvanse IME does not work as intended/smoothly, i dont even bother bypassing the XR when i get high because it doesnt make much of a difference IMO. skl, you ever try vyvanse (therapeutically)?
What ROA did you use with methamphetamine, if i may ask?
Another serious question, does getting high/taking a recreational dose. (eg. i always get high before i write papers for english) in order to work/be productive fall under utilitarian use?
When i took my medication as RXd, 40mg a day (20mg 2x a day), i would sleep and eat and everything normally...
skl i've seen other people discussing this shortage/not being able to get their scripts...XRs seem to be readily available/no issue, as i've never had a problem getting my scripts filled completely..(barr generic spansules, insurance wont pay for brand name)
SKL, DextroStat last i knew is still on the market (made by Shire), which is d-amph sulphate in the form of 5mg or 10mg IR tabs.
i've been diagnosed with ADHD, and i'm pretty sure amphetamines affect me the same as everyone else ADHD or otherwise....
people seem to forget that amphetamine type stimulants cause hyperfocus/increased attentiveness whether or not you have ADHD..
for me a small/therapeutic dose just prevents my mind from racing and thats it, the idea that stimulants act as sedatives in ADHD individuals/amphetamines wont cause intoxication in ADHD people is BS, i'm proof of that.
 
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I took MA every possible way except through the backdoor, LOL. I found oral ingestion to be the most useful but smoking the most enjoyable.

In college I took a lot of amphetamines (mostly Adderall). Definitely would be "high" some of the time I was writing papers in the sense of being definitely not sober, very euphoric, etc. Really it's a combination of both. But in terms of what I was doing to my neurochemistry it would be "drug abuse," I definitely felt a lot of ill effects from it. So it's in the worse category, the more dangerous one. Even doing enough meth to be totally out of your head you can still get a lot of shit done.

Sleeping/eating on amphetamines is mostly a function of tolerance as I understand it. But for me, even the most minute amount will kill any appetite I have, even when I've been taking them pretty often. This is true also of LSD, almost all PEAs, in fact, psychedelics in general, almost all drugs except weed & downers tend to be very anorectic for me.
 
Oh yeah SKL, thats half the reason i found amphetamines so appealing after i tried them, i was only an occasional user of RX drugs and bud till i tried amphetamines, and the appeal of stimulants in my mind is they dont make me stupid like pot does and they obviously make me feel good. in my limited experience with methamphetamine (bought half a gram of high-quality methamphetamine crystal, sold around .1ish, the rest i used myself in the span of 3 days/wed-friday), acting straight/functioning isn't hard at all with meth, i found it quite a bit easier to act sober/be out in public on methamphetamine than d-amphetamine...
and strangely enough, during that wed-friday small binge (i was dosing conservatively and trying to conserve product) i accidentally passed out/fell asleep late late thursday night even though i had smoked 2 or 3 times on thursday..
and i had a smoke sesh about 3 hours before i passed out that night, was bizarre.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-5Sm8rNPr8
lol
 
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Haha, I knew it. :D Certain batches just seem "off" and sketchy, that's always been the case. Other batches are pure golden light. It makes sense, though -- I'm sure much of the time, the diethylamine used in the synthesis is produced in-house. I could certainly imagine some shady clandestine chemists choosing not to distill it before using it to make LSD.

Yo Roger, good to see you around. I noticed you've been more or less absent from PD lately. :) Anyways, the assumption always seems to be that the "off" and "sketchy" acid is that which is produced sloppily or cheaply, and the more pure LSD is the "golden light". I don't see why impurities in LSD couldn't actually have a positive effect. Cannabis, for instance, if I understand it correctly, only "works" because it contains just the right balance of a number of related compounds -- and if you isolate pure THC, CBD, or any other such cannabis constituent, you don't get a very rewarding high. Maybe the sloppy chemists are giving us the golden acid?
 
What would "sloppily or cheaply" produced LSD be, other than LSD with impurities?

Any given molecule would either be (pure) LSD, or not LSD (an impurity).
 
Last time I saw the two of them (this is before Sasha was as ill as he was now, they were both speaking, then to a meet & greet and then out and about in public...at the afterparty there were a bunch of club trash types who were wondering who the old man who everyone was crowded around was. So one of our number asks them, "Well, have you ever taken Ecstasy?" "Of course." "That's the man to thank.") ... but anyway ... I remember her saying "if I don't trip at least once a month, I get irritable," and smiling the most angelic smile. Great lady.

Def. gonna rad her book :) But I don't if I will read this one http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/psychedelic_experience/psychedelic_experience.shtml Is it any good? alot of people says it good, but alot of people also says that the pinal-gland produce DMT! (If you know what I mean!)

T+3:40: Wow, it's still getting stronger. I feel absolutely incredible, but words cannot do justice to how good I felt at this point. I was rubbing my face repeatedly, and I remember someone in PD social linked me to a video of Christian the lion which made me melt with joy and love when the lion was playing with them at the end. This sent my euphoria, happiness and empathy to an entirely new level and I don't think anything could have upset me at that moment, nothing at all

Nice. I really did hope it would

When I read that report, I can't help to want to roll again :) Juuuuust gotta find a day when I'm not busy or high on opiates/benzoes etc.
Last time, I took MDMA in solitude, and yeah, that was quite... Therapeutic
 
Psychedelic Experience is a genuine classic, whatever one might think about Leary (the book itself was more the work of Metzner than either Leary or Alpert.) Where we get the terms "set and setting" and indeed a lot of our vocabulary and paradigm of the psychedelic experience from. The pineal gland crap (and it is crap) is Strassman, not Leary, though. Originated many years after TPE was published.
 
What would "sloppily or cheaply" produced LSD be, other than LSD with impurities?

Any given molecule would either be (pure) LSD, or not LSD (an impurity).

Right, but I'm just arguing that the more enjoyable so-called "acid" might not be the more pure "acid". That perhaps some select impurities actually enhance the perceived quality of the trip.
 
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