[Passion Flower/Valerian/St John's Wort] Safe on the comedown of 4HO-x and 5MeO-x ?

[Achten]

Hello all !

Due to circumstances, I have to cease cannabis use all together. I love weed but hey, time to move on apparently.

Because of this, and also because I don't want to let my x00€ vaporizer collect dust, I started vaping a mixture of more or less equal amounts of Passion Flower Incarnata, Valerian root and St. John's Wort. My weed use was mostly boosting psychedelics with THC-rich weed, and chilling at home with CBD-rich weed. The herbal mixture I have made does a wonderful job at relaxing my body and boosting my mental balance.

Now my question: is it relatively safe to vaporize this mixture on the comedown of various psychedelics ? I'm talking after peak effects and the aim would be to relax the body and get the mind ready for sleep. I'm talking mostly about 4-HO-X's, 5MeO-X's and 2C-x's. Are there known contraindications ?

Also, if I vape this mixture daily at evening, is there any possible negative effect to be suspected when tripping at evening the next day ?

Thanks all and keep HR'ing !

Extra info: the X's stand for DiPT, MiPT, MET, DMT and D, E, P, T4.

 

[freehugs]

If anything it will make the comedown last longer or your trip stronger, as Passion Flower extract is a natural MAOI.

 

[Achten]

I vaped +/-10grams of this mixture and at T+16h I dropped 1gram of dry mushrooms. T+17h another gram of dry mushrooms. T+19h I dropped 15mg 2C-D.
No adverse effects. Pretty euphoric trip throughout. Not too muc visuals but that could be the dose.

Although I would like some more answers, any chance the mods could move this to BDD ?

 

[sekio]

Depending on the "strength" and dose level of SJW/Passiflora you may have problems with drug interactions. I don't think the actives are volatile though, I believe you have to eat or extract them into water/alcohol.

 

[Solipsis]

SJW has proven to be only a very very weak MAOI, but there are compounds in it that do affect cytochrome P450 enzymes if only occupy them. The manner through which serotonin levels seem to be elevated remains unknown so while we do not have pressing (or any) evidence that this would be significantly threatening I think it cannot be judged safe and avoiding combinations would IMO be the best recommendation still. Same things could be said about passionflower preparations though I worry slightly less about that one, since it doesn't really have the serotonin-affecting anti-depressant effects AFAIK.

If I were you I would try to find something else that works in less sketchy ways, I recommend L-theanine for example.

 

[kingme]

interesting, though not directly related to the op question, i usually take passionflower extract (and valerian sometimes) together with melatonin when finally letting go and trying to sleep after a trip. i eat mine, but so far no surprising interactions, other than a somewhat limited success in relaxing me for sleep.
i try to cut back on valerian as that thing will affect me for the next day as well

 

[Ismene]

Do any of these "natural MAOIs" actually work when you're talking about psychedelic drugs? I havn't tried it but my feeling is I could eat half of the worlds supply of passionflower, then a third of the worlds supply of st johns wort and still not have enough MAOI in my system to activate 200mg of DMT.

I think we might be confusing what an MAOI is.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

I'm with izzy as far as the MAOI 'danger' goes with these weak herbals.

Be cautious perhaps about combining them with 2c-t-x though, 2c-t-7 has MAOI properties and people have had various safety issues with it, so to be safe watch out mixing things with that whole class. Also, it would be wise to avoid combining your mixture with aMT since it's a serotonin releaser.

 

[Achten]

Thanks for the replies.

I have switched to a mixture of Thyme/Rosemary/Chamomile to relax after the trip. Works like a charm. Even after a 5MeO-DiPT experience, which usually keep me awake for some considerable time after the trip, I felt my eyelids fall over my eyes after just 1 balloon of the mixture.

 

[Solipsis]

Well who said the MAOI property is what should be the thing best avoided? I think it is shortsighted to equate only that criterium with the level of safety.
Talking about SJW, we do not really know how it does its thing so can we call combining it with something like a 5-MeO tryptamine safe or responsible? Technically not, if we ignore the probability of the risks being acceptable for most people, for example by trying to check for the number of incidents with SJW combinations.
It depends on what Achten wants us to say, do we know if it is safe strictly speaking? Do we guesstimate that it will be okay?

For the record: I think 4-HO tryptamines are as a rule considerably less of a problem or risk.. they seem much more benign to the body while 5-MeO's especially ones that have at least one N-methyl seem to have more of a propensity for hypertension and ickiness like that.

Anyway, there should not be an alarm like a huge MAOI contraindication - I rather care for nuancing instead.