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Palestine discussion

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-=SS=- said:
Some of the threads on Reddit I liked to peruse seem to be filled with stories about Israel all the time. GreenAndPleasant, a supposedly British thread, you look at the main page and I can see several Israel related things. Which is ridiculous because in the UK we have loads of political things that need our attention more. The entire thread seems to have been co-opted by a particular political bent of people.


But all this is predicated on the notion that we're dealing on equal footing here, that our cultures and mindsets are equivalent, when they're clearly not. Yes, the West should not have dicked around in the ME, I'll be the first to lay out those crimes and that is a fucking disgrace without question, but the Germans (or inter-European relations) don't begrudge each other for what happened during WW2.. they are not seeking revenge and attacking innocent people for it.. in fact we are neurotic about doing all we can to avoid conflict these days, which is part of the issue with the Islamic thing; there's a blind spot in a lot of people regarding Islam, they want to see it on equal footing when perhaps it is not deserving of that.

Look at what happened after the Southport attack last Summer in the UK. We had loads of Muslims, most likely of Pakistani origin, roaming the streets with weapons - what a disaster that would have been if guns were legal - looking for what, exactly? That is the issue, the divergence in cultural mindset. These people are guests in this country, we just suffered a horrendous barbaric attack on children, which the British public were rightly outraged about , and what do these Muslims think is the most appropriate response? To make it about them, to brandish fucking weapons, instead of saying "Shit, that's terrible. You know what, maybe we should do a bit more to root out the issues in our communities, ask questions of why this seems to happen so much", etc.

With the Palestinians you're talking about a culture that for decades has been inverted. Half of the fault lies with the tension between them and the Israeli's, the other half is their own doing due to inherent religious and cultural patterns. We can look to any number of European countries now and point to clear evidence of what will happen if these people go elsewhere, they will simply bring all their problems with them, do nothing to change, and just try to inflict their cultural pattern on the host nation.

Sweden has had 1 explosion every single day in January. That is nuts. Grenade attacks, shootings, etc. Literally the most peaceful nation on Earth, invited a bunch of these culturally incompatible people in, gave them everything, and it did not work. The same with the UK. The amount of free money and handouts these people get is ridiculous, and have they used it to prosper and grow? Nope.
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Ahh the good ole dog whistle of cultural superiority. Such a classic
 
Egalitarians. Every person, race, culture must be exactly equal. That's the only possibility. Equal potential in all categories or it's due to oppression or whatever. Any measured differences are labeled as bigoted "anti-science" beliefs such as superiority, inferiority, racism, etc

Couldn't possibly be that different cultures and races have different qualities, abilities, inabilities, and so on, and that accepting that as true is not declaring one superior or inferior, but simply different
 
"Different groups of people are different"

"Oh the classic dog whistle of supremacy"

Reddit tier
 
Could it be that certain groups of people have had their opportunities repressed by others? Or do you willingly ignore the societal and cultural impact of oppression?

Not different, but the statement that one is inherently better than the other. Now you seem to be purposely misrepresenting the statement.
 
Of course some people have their potential repressed. Do you believe in hereditarianism or is the environment responsible for every persons/groups outcomes?
 
Electrum1 said:
Couldn't possibly be that different cultures and races have different qualities, abilities, inabilities,
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When you are speaking of culture, as we are now in this thread, you are basically speaking of the brain as the brain contains culture.
So, logically you are saying that different races' brains have different "abilities and inabilities".
Please explain.
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
Ah. I see. When you said the Palestinians and "the west" were "not equals", you meant they were culturally inferior.
Lol. I didn't respond before and I almost didn't now because I'm finding the best way is to just let you keep talking.
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You're doing it again, going all sensational about it. As Mal alluded to above cultures wax and wane, grow and recede, there is no need to put an emotional emphasis with 'inferior' to it. It just is what it is, and some cultures are doing better than others whether that be technologically, ethically, morally, spiritually, etc.

I'm [not] sorry, but if we're going to compare cultures then it's clear that Western cultures generally are further along ethically (despite our flaws and contradictions) than Islamic ones. We're not perfect, we stone our criminals in other ways, but we're not actually stoning them.

Don't forget these people would in all likelihood throw many BL's off a fucking roof if they had the chance. They are not open to dialogue and that alone is a major reason why our cultures are superior to theirs; that mind state is tribal, something the West has made strides to evolve out of.
brokedownpalace10 said:
When you are speaking of culture, as we are now in this thread, you are basically speaking of the brain as the brain contains culture.
So, logically you are saying that different races' brains have different "abilities and inabilities".
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This wasn't directed at me but it's one of my favourite subject areas. There is a two-way dynamic between culture and the mind, the mind doesn't contain culture but is somehow meshed with it despite culture apparently therefore being a non-local field effect. Culture definitely does shape our minds, and neurological structure. That is a scientific fact, and not just in terms of first-cousin parents causing retardation, but the emotional and psychological state of the mother in particular has a direct impact on the foetus and child in the first years post-birth.

If you live in a culture like the Palestinian's, a highly stressed, insecure environment, where the mother is under enormous emotional and psychological strain as well due to the religious/cultural attitudes, that is going to shape the unborn and post-birth mind without a shadow of a doubt. It puts the brain into a very defensive stance, which retards use of the prefrontal cortex, which basically means less impulse control and tendency towards violence as a survival mechanism.

This is why the West is further along. Our technology has given us greater security and reduced stress levels, allowing higher intelligence to gradually take a leading role - this has happened extremely quickly, in a matter of centuries, and consequently it could also unravel just as fast if we're not careful as it is not stabilized.
 
-=SS=- said:
You're doing it again, going all sensational about it. As Mal alluded to above cultures wax and wane, grow and recede, there is no need to put an emotional emphasis with 'inferior' to it. It just is what it is, and some cultures are doing better than others whether that be technologically, ethically, morally, spiritually, etc.

I'm [not] sorry, but if we're going to compare cultures then it's clear that Western cultures generally are further along ethically (despite our flaws and contradictions) than Islamic ones. We're not perfect, we stone our criminals in other ways, but we're not actually stoning them.

Don't forget these people would in all likelihood throw many BL's off a fucking roof if they had the chance. They are not open to dialogue and that alone is a major reason why our cultures are superior to theirs; that mind state is tribal, something the West has made strides to evolve out of.

This wasn't directed at me but it's one of my favourite subject areas. There is a two-way dynamic between culture and the mind, the mind doesn't contain culture but is somehow meshed with it despite culture apparently therefore being a non-local field effect. Culture definitely does shape our minds, and neurological structure. That is a scientific fact, and not just in terms of first-cousin parents causing retardation, but the emotional and psychological state of the mother in particular has a direct impact on the foetus and child in the first years post-birth.

If you live in a culture like the Palestinian's, a highly stressed, insecure environment, where the mother is under enormous emotional and psychological strain as well due to the religious/cultural attitudes, that is going to shape the unborn and post-birth mind without a shadow of a doubt. It puts the brain into a very defensive stance, which retards use of the prefrontal cortex, which basically means less impulse control and tendency towards violence as a survival mechanism.

This is why the West is further along. Our technology has given us greater security and reduced stress levels, allowing higher intelligence to gradually take a leading role - this has happened extremely quickly, in a matter of centuries.
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How long did that take to write? 15 minutes? And its entirely based around a false premise that you can judge which culture is "doing better"

How does one judge that? How does one objectively judge moral structure, ethics, or spirituality?

It took me 5 seconds to notice the glaring flaw in the argument
 
I do also enjoy how @Electrum1 ignores the impact of apartheid south Africa on the local indigenous communities.

So its totally fine for a group to go to an area, forcibly take control for a couples decades exploiting and oppressing the locals to strip them of all of their wealth, land, and autonomy, then years later when people realize that's bad, end the system and leave the oppressive disparities in place. Then you just say they have a bad culture inherently because of heredity
 
-=SS=- said:
You're doing it again, going all sensational about it. As Mal alluded to above cultures wax and wane, grow and recede, there is no need to put an emotional emphasis with 'inferior' to it. It just is what it is, and some cultures are doing better than others whether that be technologically, ethically, morally, spiritually, etc.

I'm [not] sorry, but if we're going to compare cultures then it's clear that Western cultures generally are further along ethically (despite our flaws and contradictions) than Islamic ones. We're not perfect, we stone our criminals in other ways, but we're not actually stoning them.

Don't forget these people would in all likelihood throw many BL's off a fucking roof if they had the chance. They are not open to dialogue and that alone is a major reason why our cultures are superior to theirs; that mind state is tribal, something the West has made strides to evolve out of.

This wasn't directed at me but it's one of my favourite subject areas. There is a two-way dynamic between culture and the mind, the mind doesn't contain culture but is somehow meshed with it despite culture apparently therefore being a non-local field effect. Culture definitely does shape our minds, and neurological structure. That is a scientific fact, and not just in terms of first-cousin parents causing retardation, but the emotional and psychological state of the mother in particular has a direct impact on the foetus and child in the first years post-birth.

If you live in a culture like the Palestinian's, a highly stressed, insecure environment, where the mother is under enormous emotional and psychological strain as well due to the religious/cultural attitudes, that is going to shape the unborn and post-birth mind without a shadow of a doubt. It puts the brain into a very defensive stance, which retards use of the prefrontal cortex, which basically means less impulse control and tendency towards violence as a survival mechanism.

This is why the West is further along. Our technology has given us greater security and reduced stress levels, allowing higher intelligence to gradually take a leading role - this has happened extremely quickly, in a matter of centuries, and consequently it could also unravel just as fast if we're not careful as it is not stabilized.
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So, you're saying that one culture is "doing better", is "further along", and the other culture is "not open to dialogue". Thus our, "cultures are superior to theirs"... but I would be incorrect in stating that you said that their culture was inferior. :rolleyes:

I'm not being emotional. I'm clarifying what you are saying.

I'll ask the question again. While getting it back on track. What I said was that the brain contained culture. It's kind of obvious that ideas, mores, etc. come from the brain.

Electrum1 said:
Couldn't possibly be that different cultures and races have different qualities, abilities, inabilities,
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So, since Electrum came out and said that different races have different abilities and disabilities, I'll ask you. What mental abilities or disabilities would one race have over the other.
Mentioning developmental hurdles due to harsh situations is a nice distraction, but it doesn't answer my question. Y'all have been talking about cultures, religions, and now maybe races being inferior. Cultures, religions and races can exist whether the conditions are harsh or not.
 
Hitch was always very succinct and to the point.



What makes a person bigoted if their basis of criticism is focused on a set of beliefs and customs a person has chosen to support and promote? I don't think the culture of the antebellum Christian south was equal to ours, either, but for some reason I doubt I'd ever get pushback on that statement...
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
So, you're saying that one culture is "doing better", is "further along", and the other culture is "not open to dialogue". Thus our, "cultures are superior to theirs"... but I would be incorrect in stating that you said that their culture was inferior. :rolleyes:

I'm not being emotional. I'm clarifying what you are saying.
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But you are. You can see exactly what I'm saying but you're choosing to put this overlay on top of that, trying to shoehorn me into a corner as a racist or whatever, so that you don't have to open your own mind up to the possibility of new ideas or ways of seeing things. Typical American sensationalism, the kind that has possessed the left wing over the past decade or so, born out of that bastard child of the establishment called 'political correctness'.
brokedownpalace10 said:
So, since Electrum came out and said that different races have different abilities and disabilities, I'll ask you. What mental abilities or disabilities would one race have over the other.
Mentioning developmental hurdles due to harsh situations is a nice distraction, but it doesn't answer my question.
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I've already given you a clear example of a culture, Islam (particularly of Pakistani origin), which has literal disabilities caused by the culture itself - first-cousin marriage and children born with severe defects.

I'm really not interested in playing this game with you (re: underlined 'race'); you want to play the perpetually outraged oppression Olympics bullshit and I really can't be arsed with that because it's clear you have no intention of taking the dialogue anywhere but into the gutter, because you're simply not open to new ideas. Not that they are actually new ideas at all of course, it is just common sense that people are not all a homogenous equal group.

That's the hilarious irony too. Diversity in all but name.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
Shifting the rhetoric to use the word "culture" rather than "race" is just the same ideology with some new face paint
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No it isn't. Race is based on genetics (DNA); culture is based on traditions, customs and beliefs.
One race can have more than one culture as time passes and cultures change but the genetics will remain relatively consistent.
 
"Alt righters use terms like “culture” as substitutes for more divisive terms such as “race,” and promote “Western Civilization” as a code word for white culture or identity. They tend to avoid explicit white supremacist references like the “14 words,” a slogan used by neo-Nazis and other hardcore white supremacists. While alt righters share the sentiment behind the “14 words” they’re more inclined to talk about preserving European-American identity."

 
Race is based on genetics and coherent makeup that would split people into different races have not been found. Scientists often opt to talk about "ethnic populations" or something like that.

I have nothing else to say.
 
mal3volent said:
I don't think the culture of the antebellum Christian south was equal to ours, either, but for some reason I doubt I'd ever get pushback on that statement...
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Was the antebellum South was a separate culture? Maybe a subculture in America. Due to that concept (at least), would find it hard to call an entire religion, such as Islam, inferior.

What I do find interesting is the the fatal error of the culture you used as an example was believing that another race was inferior.
-=SS=- said:
Typical American sensationalism, the kind that has possessed the left wing over the past decade or so, born out of that bastard child of the establishment called 'political correctness'.
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Well, I'm glad you're not being "emotional".
-=SS=- said:
I've already given you a clear example of a culture, Islam (particularly of Pakistani origin), which has literal disabilities caused by the culture itself - first-cousin marriage and children born with severe defects.
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See above.
-=SS=- said:
I'm really not interested in playing this game with you (re: underlined 'race'); you want to play the perpetually outraged oppression Olympics bullshit and I really can't be arsed with that because it's clear you have no intention of taking the dialogue anywhere but into the gutter, because you're simply not open to new ideas.
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I'm seriously not playing games. Unless repeating your words back to you is a game.

Anyway, I get it. Now you are just saying that Islam is an inferior religion. :rolleyes:
 
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