• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

Paleo diet

You said it yourself, really :D You're already vegetarian and have cut out meat from your diet, therefore if you cut out beans and grains as well you'd be left with barely anything to eat! If someone is already prescribing to one type of restrictive diet, they shouldn't try to incorporate another type of restriction as well, imo.

Lol that's true. I'm not planning to actually go ahead with this diet or anything because I wouldn't really have anything to eat :p and that certainly wouldn't be healthy.
But I'm trying to understand why this diet is considered a healthy one when you are getting rid of things like beans and grains. I mean, beans are much healthier than meat, and grains can be very filling (if you choose the right kinds).
 
Besides having bad cholesterol, wouldn't red meat pack way more nutrients than any bean would?
 
Lol that's true. I'm not planning to actually go ahead with this diet or anything because I wouldn't really have anything to eat :p and that certainly wouldn't be healthy.
But I'm trying to understand why this diet is considered a healthy one when you are getting rid of things like beans and grains. I mean, beans are much healthier than meat, and grains can be very filling (if you choose the right kinds).

Eating too many grains can also start the insulin dependency we see in many people, though. And beans? Meh. They're tasty and all and I like them, but I couldn't possibly eat them as much as I would eat a "healthy" food. Whatever that is anymore.
 
I mean, beans are much healthier than meat, and grains can be very filling (if you choose the right kinds).
False, and double false. Oats, the best, still have way more starch than fiber, which is weak next to breadfruit or green plantains, much less coconut and avocado. As for beans, look up "phytohaemagglutinin". Bean proteins typically cause more harm than good, which is why they're the namesake of many a digestive aid, and they just generally suck next to most vegetables, oilseeds or meat, in terms of nutrition.
 
Besides having bad cholesterol, wouldn't red meat pack way more nutrients than any bean would?
Meat in general doesn't have bad cholesterol though.
It's really only a problem for people who would have a tendency towards cholesterol problems anyway.
Same thing with eggs. Eating a few eggs every day isn't a problem for most people, only those who are genetically predisposed to cholesterol issues.
 
Legumes (beans, lentils, peas, etc), although more starchy than a lot of other vegetables (making them higher in calories) are good sources of fibre, protein, calcium, iron, zinc, and B vitamins, folate, phosphorus, potassium, selinium. They are also rich in antioxidants and low in fat and being plantfood contain no cholesterol. Beans can cause intestinal gas, or flatulence, because they contain a sugar oligosaccharide that your digestion can't break down, if this gives you problems you could just eat lentils and peas instead. But yes you do not need to eat as many legumes as other vegetables, particularly dark green leafy veggies and dark yellow/orange veggies which provide multitudes of nutritional benefits,

Grains provide lower nutritional levels than veggies, fruits or legumes but where they have served us well in the past is that they can be stored for a long time, and thus eaten over the winter time when fruits and veggies were not so available. I believe their importance in the diet has clearly been over stated.

Meat although also providing many nutrients found in legumes like iron, zinc, magnesium and b vitamins, is too high in protein for good health, this acidic animal protein leaches nutrients from bones. It is also too high in fat, in saturated fat, and cholesterol which your body doesn't need any from foods as it makes it own. Is high in calories and contains no fibre. The modern increase in meat consumption has been linked with heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, stroke, diabetes, etc.

In paleo times, meat wouldn't have been as plentiful as it is now, it took a lot of effort to hunt and kill something, they wouldn't have hunted for more than they needed, I don't think they would have eaten as much meat as most people do today. And probably ate a a lot more vegetables and fruits, our closest living relatives are fruitarian primates.

Dairy is a disaster- tagged for length
NSFW:
Osteoporosis
Milk’s main selling point is calcium, and milk-drinking is touted for building strong bones in children and preventing osteoporosis in older persons. However, clinical research shows that dairy products have little or no benefit for bones. A 2005 review published in Pediatrics showed that milk consumption does not improve bone integrity in children.1 Similarly, the Harvard Nurses’ Health Study,2 which followed more than 72,000 women for 18 years, showed no protective effect of increased milk consumption on fracture risk.

A study published in the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine, which followed adolescent girls’ diets, physical activity, and stress fractures for seven years, found that girls consuming the most dairy products and calcium had no added bone protection. In fact, among the most physically active girls, those who got the most calcium in their diets (mostly from dairy products) had more than double the risk of stress fractures.3 While calcium is important for bone health, studies show that increasing consumption beyond approximately 600 milligrams per day—amounts that are easily achieved without dairy products or calcium supplements—does not improve bone integrity.2

In studies of children and adults, exercise has been found to have a major effect on bone density.4-6

You can decrease your risk of osteoporosis by reducing sodium,7 increasing intake of fruits and vegetables,7,8 exercising,5,9 and ensuring adequate calcium intake from plant foods such as kale, broccoli, and other leafy green vegetables and beans. You can also use calcium-fortified products such as breakfast cereals and beverages.

Fat Content and Cardiovascular Disease
Dairy products—including cheese, ice cream, milk, butter, and yogurt—contribute significant amounts of cholesterol and are the number one source of saturated fat in the diet.10 Diets high in fat and saturated fat can increase the risk of heart disease, among other serious health problems. In two studies, hypertension—a known risk factor for heart disease—was significantly decreased among patients who practiced strict avoidance of animal products.11,12 A low-fat vegetarian diet that eliminates dairy products, in combination with exercise, smoking cessation, and stress management, can not only prevent heart disease, but may also reverse it.13,14 Nonfat dairy products are available; however, they pose other health risks as noted below.

Cancer
Prostate and breast cancers have been linked to consumption of dairy products, presumably related to increases in a compound called insulin-like growth factor (IGF-I).15 IGF-I is found in cow’s milk and has been shown to occur in increased levels in the blood of individuals consuming dairy products on a regular basis.16,17 Other nutrients that increase IGF-I are also found in cow’s milk.

Case-control studies in diverse populations have shown a strong and consistent association between serum IGF-I concentrations and prostate cancer risk.18 One study showed that men who had the highest levels of IGF-I had an almost two-fold increased risk of prostate cancer, compared with those who had the lowest levels.19 Other findings show that prostate cancer risk was elevated with increased consumption of low-fat milk, suggesting that too much dairy calcium could be a potential threat to prostate health.18

Dairy products account for approximately 65 percent of estrogens consumed. Estrogens (and their metabolites) are a risk factor for breast, ovarian, and prostate cancers due, in part, to their ability to influence cell proliferation.20 A study suggesting that milk consumption may contribute to breast cancer risk reported that 15 different estrogen metabolites were found in various milk products. (There were no appreciable amounts of estrogen metabolites found in soymilk.)20 Cutting fatty foods is priority No. 1 when you endeavor to lower your risk for breast cancer, and, as noted above, dairy products are the No. 1 source of saturated fat in the diet.

Ovarian cancer may also be related to the consumption of dairy products. The milk sugar lactose is broken down in the body into another sugar, galactose. Research suggests that the dairy sugar galactose might be toxic to ovarian cells.21 In a study conducted in Sweden, consumption of lactose and dairy products was positively linked to ovarian cancer.22 Additionally, a study conducted in Denmark—where the incidence of ovarian cancer is one of the highest in the world—found that women who consumed more than two servings of milk per day had nearly two times the risk of developing ovarian cancer than women who drank less than half a serving per day.23

Lactose Intolerance
Lactose intolerance is common among many populations, affecting approximately 95 percent of Asian Americans, 80 to 100 percent of Native Americans, 60 to 80 percent of African Americans, 50 to 80 percent of Hispanics,24 and 15 percent of Caucasians.25 Symptoms, which include gastrointestinal distress, diarrhea, and flatulence, occur because these individuals do not have the enzyme lactase that digests the milk sugar lactose. For those who can digest lactose, its breakdown products are two simple sugars: glucose and galactose. Nursing children have active enzymes that break down galactose. As we age, many of us lose much of this capacity.26 Additionally, along with unwanted symptoms, milk-drinkers also put themselves at risk for development of other chronic diseases and ailments.

Vitamin D
Individuals often drink milk in order to obtain vitamin D in their diet, unaware that they can receive vitamin D through other sources. The natural source of vitamin D is sunlight. Five to 15 minutes of sun exposure to the arms and legs or the hands, face, and arms can be enough to meet the body’s requirements for vitamin D, depending on the individual’s skin tone.27 Darker skin requires longer exposure to the sun in order to obtain adequate levels of vitamin D. Fortified cereals, grains, bread, orange juice, and plant milks are healthful foods that provide vitamin D. All common multiple vitamins also provide vitamin D.

Contaminants
Milk contains contaminants that range from pesticides to drugs. Milk naturally contains hormones and growth factors produced within a cow’s body. In addition, synthetic hormones such as recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH) are commonly used in dairy cows to increase the production of milk.28 Because treated cows are producing quantities of milk nature never intended, the end result can be mastitis, or inflammation of the mammary glands. Treatment of this condition requires the use of antibiotics, and antibiotic traces have occasionally been found in samples of milk and other dairy products. Pesticides, polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), and dioxins are other examples of contaminants found in milk. These toxins do not readily leave the body and can eventually build to harmful levels that may affect the immune and reproductive systems. The central nervous system can also be affected. Moreover, PCBs and dioxins have also been linked to cancer.29

Milk Proteins and Diabetes
Insulin-dependent (type 1 or childhood-onset) diabetes is linked to consumption of dairy products.30 A 2001 Finnish study of 3,000 infants with genetically increased risk for developing diabetes showed that early introduction of cow’s milk increased susceptibility to type 1 diabetes.31

Health Concerns of Infants and Children
Milk proteins, milk sugar, fat, and saturated fat in dairy products pose health risks for children and encourage the development of obesity, diabetes, and heart disease.

The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that infants below 1 year of age not be given whole cow’s milk,32 as iron deficiency is more likely on a dairy-rich diet. Cow’s milk products are very low in iron.33 If dairy products become a major part of one’s diet, iron deficiency is more likely. Colic is an additional concern with milk consumption. Up to 28 percent of infants suffer from colic during the first month of life.34 Pediatricians learned long ago that cow’s milk was often the reason. We now know that breastfeeding mothers can have colicky babies if the mothers consume cow’s milk. The cow’s antibodies can pass through the mother’s bloodstream, into her breast milk, and to the baby.35,36 Additionally, food allergies appear to be common results of cow’s milk consumption, particularly in children.37,38 Cow’s milk consumption has also been linked to chronic constipation in children. Researchers suggested that milk consumption resulted in perianal sores and severe pain on defecation, leading to constipation.39

Pain
It may be possible for rheumatoid arthritis (RA) and migraine sufferers to alleviate pain by eliminating dairy products (and/or other offending foods) from the diet. One of the most common dietary triggers of migraines and arthritis pain is dairy products, and even minor exposures to triggers can cause an attack.

In adults, anywhere between 20 and 50 percent have a reduction or elimination of their migraine headaches when common trigger foods, such as dairy products, are avoided.40,41

According to several studies, vegan diets appear to benefit about half of arthritis patients, including some who did not identify a specific diet trigger.42-46 A study evaluating the influence of a four-week, low-fat vegan diet on RA patients showed significant changes in symptomology, such as improvement in ability to function, a decrease in both joint tenderness and joint swelling scores, improved severity of morning stiffness, and a decrease in pain.47

Acne
Studies linking milk consumption and adolescent acne suggest that the association is caused by hormones and bioactive molecules present in cow’s milk.48-50

In a retrospective study of 47,355 women, intake of milk during adolescence was associated with a history of teenage acne, and the association was strongest with skim milk.48 Years later the same research group conducted a prospective study on 6,094 adolescent girls and found that a greater consumption of milk was associated with a higher prevalence of acne, and no association was found with milk fat.49 Similarly, the researchers’ investigation on milk consumption and teenage boys yielded a positive association between skim milk and acne.50

Obesity and Calories
Obesity is a risk factor for a number of chronic diseases. Replacing high-calorie dairy products with low-calorie plant foods can assist in keeping within established calorie ranges and maintaining a healthy weight.

Ounce for ounce, colas and skim milk have about the same number of calories. Whole milk has about 50 percent more calories, and 2 percent milk has approximately one-third more calories than cola. Reduced-fat milk is the seventh leading source of calories among Americans ages 2 to 18 years old, and whole milk is 12th, according to the 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans.51

Milk and dairy products are not necessary in the diet and can, in fact, be harmful to health. It is best to consume a healthful diet of grains, fruits, vegetables, legumes, and fortified foods including cereals and juices. These nutrient-dense foods can help you meet your calcium, potassium, riboflavin, and vitamin D requirements with ease—and without health risks. http://www.pcrm.org/health/diets/vegdiets/health-concerns-about-dairy-products

http://www.notmilk.com/


Paleo diets are probably a lot healthier than the standard modern westernised diet. Personally I prefer to eat legumes over meat and don't cut out grains entirely but I am not surprised that a lot of people are feeling so much better after adhering to a paleo diet.
 
Last edited:
I did a paleo diet for a little more than a year, and stopped doing it a few months ago. It seemed like at first I felt a little healthier, but it definitely wasn't the night and day difference where all my health problems magically melted away and I had boundless energy and vitality, like a lot of people who do paleo talk about. The longer I did it though, I eventually realized I wasn't feeling so great and was starting to see some new health issues develop, mainly that I was having a lot of trouble sleeping for more then 4 or 5 hours at a time and my body couldn't recover from even very simple workouts. For a while I kind of fell into a trap of reading Mark's Daily Apple too much and being convinced that the paleo diet is the key to good health for everybody, and that I just needed to keep with it and eventually it would start to work, even though it seemed like my health was just slowly deteriorating. But then I found some other stuff online about people who paleo didn't work for, and decided to call it quits.

It definitely does wonders for a lot of people, especially for weight-loss (which was never really an issue for me as I've always been a little underweight), but I guess it is not for everyone. I'm not sure if my experience would have been the same if I had been more conscious about getting enough carbs on paleo. I guess it isn't specifically a low carb diet but it probably ends up being that way for most people, so if you are going to try it I'd definitely pay attention to how much carbs you are getting and be open to the idea of adding in potatoes and sweet potatoes or even some small servings of white rice. They say to eat lots of fat for energy to make up for the lower carbs, but even eating A LOT of fat I was still starting to feel kind of exhausted. Some people say that paleo and other low-carb/ketogenic diets put your body into starvation mode, so a lot of functions become more efficient at first (thus the immediate health improvements), but it is not sustainable. This seems pretty consistent with my experience with paleo, but I know there are also plenty of people who thrive on it for years.
 
Legumes (beans, lentils, peas, etc), although more starchy than a lot of other vegetables (making them higher in calories) are good sources of fibre, protein, calcium, iron, zinc, and B vitamins, folate, phosphorus, potassium, selinium. They are also rich in antioxidants and low in fat and being plantfood contain no cholesterol. Beans can cause intestinal gas, or flatulence, because they contain a sugar oligosaccharide that your digestion can't break down, if this gives you problems you could just eat lentils and peas instead. But yes you do not need to eat as many legumes as other vegetables, particularly dark green leafy veggies and dark yellow/orange veggies which provide multitudes of nutritional benefits,

pre-soaking beans causes the complex sugars to get broken down and resolves the issues with flatulence.

Grains provide lower nutritional levels than veggies, fruits or legumes but where they have served us well in the past is that they can be stored for a long time, and thus eaten over the winter time when fruits and veggies were not so available. I believe their importance in the diet has clearly been over stated.

Nutrients =/= nutritional. Veggies have more nutrients but no carbs, fats or proteins. Legumes and fruits have proteins and carbs, sure, but they also cost more than grains and perish soon. Carbs are a valuable source for cheap energy and nutrients, so their importance is definitely not overstated. The issue is more that we are exposed to lots of poor-quality wheat flour that retains the carbs but contains less nutrients. If you compare any "white flour" item with a "whole wheat" item in the grocery store, you'll notice that the nutrient values are lower in everything that has "enriched/bleached white flour" as an ingredient.

Meat although also providing many nutrients found in legumes like iron, zinc, magnesium and b vitamins, is too high in protein for good health, this acidic animal protein leaches nutrients from bones. It is also too high in fat, in saturated fat, and cholesterol which your body doesn't need any from foods as it makes it own. Is high in calories and contains no fibre. The modern increase in meat consumption has been linked with heart disease, osteoporosis, cancer, stroke, diabetes, etc.

All protein is acidic, whether it comes from meat or legumes. That's why a balanced diet contains loads of stuff like leafy greens, to swing the pH balance back toward alkaline. It's safe to say that any calorie increase paired with an inactive lifestyle will lead to cardiovascular diseases, whether it's extra calories through meat or extra calories through grains they eventually settle down as fat once metabolized. Problems are not caused by meat but rather by overconsumption, which is common in the Western world, and the reason cardiovascular diseases and diabetes have been labeled "Western diseases".

Paleo diets are probably a lot healthier than the standard modern westernised diet. Personally I prefer to eat legumes over meat and don't cut out grains entirely but I am not surprised that a lot of people are feeling so much better after adhering to a paleo diet.

key words here: Western diets. Every single time I'm in line at the grocery store people in front of me and people behind me are buying boxes of Nestea or soda and at least one item that comes in a box from a freezer. All this crap is overloaded with calories but everyone seems to be consuming them.

I bought a box of Pizza Pops the other day, just to see if I still like em (I don't). One single Pizza Pop, a panzerotti that fits in the palm of your hand, is 260 calories. It blew my mind because I will eat three times more actual food at dinner and it typically comes out to roughly the same amount of calories. I'm full when I have a typical dinner, but after one Pizza Pop I really just felt like having another and that would have boosted the meal up to over 500 calories for just two dinky little morcels. Overconsumption seems like the obvious consequence when we eat insanely calorie-dense foods but they don't have the intended effect of filling us up.

I'm not gonna rant n rave any more except to say that I've followed to the T all kinds of diets; paleo, Atkins, vegetarian, low-carb, gluten-free, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I've gotten so used to reading the labels on things over the years that I can just look at my shopping cart and know what type of food I'd need to add to put some balance back into the vast array of amino acids, nutrients and vitamins that the human body needs. Restricting meat and carbs is not the answer. Actually, the national food guide is where I keep coming back to after all these years spent on some diet or another. At its core, it advocates a truly balanced diet, and I think that's where the solution lies. As to what exact foods comprise that balance, it's up to us as individuals, but recognizing the need for that balance is universally important too.
 
Ever tried a balanced Vegan diet?
Not getting at you, just asking as it was not one you listed and obviously what I with my current level of nutritional education perceive to be the healthiest way to eat.
 
Yes. Getting enough B12 is problematic for vegans. I still eat as little meat as possible because my current diet is all about calorie restriction (plus meat costs a lot) and B12 is one of the few vitamins I supplement. One of the most valuable tools for me is getting blood work done because the results show such deficiencies and takes some of the guesswork out of finding balance.
 
All vegans need supplement B12, a lot could also benefit from Vit D, and iodine supplementation. Blood work = good tip for everyone really, I wonder if I am deficient in anything, shouldn't be..
 
Legumes (beans, lentils, peas, etc), although more starchy than a lot of other vegetables (making them higher in calories) are good sources of fibre, protein, calcium, iron, zinc, and B vitamins, folate, phosphorus, potassium, selinium. They are also rich in antioxidants and low in fat and being plantfood contain no cholesterol. Beans can cause intestinal gas, or flatulence, because they contain a sugar oligosaccharide that your digestion can't break down, if this gives you problems you could just eat lentils and peas instead. But yes you do not need to eat as many legumes as other vegetables, particularly dark green leafy veggies and dark yellow/orange veggies which provide multitudes of nutritional benefits,

Obviously we need to take a closer look here.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/beans-legumes-carbs/#axzz24UbFxvlu

Being low in fat or cholesterol isn't an advantage; the protein content is meh and most of it isn't digestible anyway. Painstakingly comparing the nutrient content of many, many legumes to various other foods isn't likely to be too revealing. After all, paleo allows such nutrient-poor things as mango (it's delicious) and even honey.

The reason legumes are off paleo is two-fold: oligosaccharides and lectins (and other antinutritional factors such as trypsin inhibitors). Yes, these can both be reduced by proper preparation. Similarly, corn's pellagrogenic factors can be removed by treating it with lye. But in a practical, real-life sense, most people don't eat corn prepared with lye, and nobody soaks their beans anymore. Repeated consumption of improperly prepared things is deleterious to health, so many people -- myself included -- simply find it easier to eat things which are safe to consume raw! The noble pea and the green bean are exceptions.

(Similarly, meat is not a good source of Vitamin C; while it contains Vitamin C, it is destroyed in the cooking process! Nobody eats raw meat.)

If you're interested in knowing more, this guy wrote a nice essay about it:

http://www.dadamo.com/science_lectins_mitogens.htm

I'm not going to tell anyone to stop eating legumes if they don't want to. They certainly aren't as bad as grains. However, I would say that they should not be a primary source of dietary protein, due to the presence of trypsin inhibitors and the large amounts of starch.

The other other other reason paleo doesn't like legumes is the high concentration of n-6 ("omega-6") polyunsaturated fats, particularly linoleic acid. Paleo diets emphasize maintaining an n-6 to n-3 intake ratio lower than 4:1. Many sources recommend 1:1; I usually aim for 2-3:1. The thing is, many legume oils -- such as peanut oil -- contain a lot of n-6 and no n-3; soybean oil, which is the "best", is roughly 7:1. But first let's talk about the "PUFA ratio"

http://submit.clinsci.org/cs/106/0635/cs1060635.htm
http://www.springerlink.com/index/54X1LH1637401901.pdf
http://pen.sagepub.com/content/18/5/417.short

So imbalance is, uh, bad.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soybean_oil#Comparison_to_other_vegetable_oils

Now let's look at the fat content of the three big names: peanut, soybean, and chickpea. Peanut oil is roughly 33% n-6 with no n-3 to speak of. Soybean oil is 54% n-6 and 7% n-3. Chickpeas are low in fat but it's roughly 60% n-6 with no n-3 to speak of. This isn't much worse than many other popular oils; paleo also bans safflower, sunflower, corn, pumpkin seed and poppyseed oil due to n-6 content. More revealing is to look at what shows up to replace it: grass-fed beef is roughly 3:1 n-6:n-3, grass-fed butter is 1:1, hempseed is 2.5:1, walnut is 4:1, and olive, avocado, hazelnut, macadamia, and almond are all relatively low in polyunsaturated fats -- thus not affecting the intake ratio too badly. Coconut oil, meanwhile, is largely composed of medium-chain triglycerides, which deserve a post of their own -- coconut is deservedly encouraged on paleo diet plans.

Meat although also providing many nutrients found in legumes like iron, zinc, magnesium and b vitamins, is too high in protein for good health, this acidic animal protein leaches nutrients from bones.

I'm just going to concentrate on the last sentence, which is wrong. Not only wrong, but totally and completely backwards.

http://www.ajcn.org/content/69/1/147.short

The risk of hip fracture was not related to intake of calcium or vitamin D, but was negatively associated with total protein intake. Animal rather than vegetable sources of protein appeared to account for this association. In a multivariate model with inclusion of age, body size, parity, smoking, alcohol intake, estrogen use, and physical activity, the relative risks of hip fracture decreased across increasing quartiles of intake of animal protein as follows: 1.00 (reference), 0.59 (95% CI: 0.26, 1.34), 0.63 (0.28, 1.42), and 0.31 (0.10, 0.93); P for trend = 0.037.

The study showed that people who consumed more animal protein broke fewer bones. Protein intake increases calcium absorption, so it obviously increases excretion as well. Old studies showing higher calcium excretion in people who ate a lot of protein incorrectly concluded that the extra calcium was being leached from bone. Of course, I need more studies to be conclusive here.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.2000.15.12.2504/full

Even after controlling for known confounders including weight loss, women and men with relatively lower protein intake had increased bone loss, suggesting that protein intake is important in maintaining bone or minimizing bone loss in elderly persons. Further, higher intake of animal protein does not appear to affect the skeleton adversely in this elderly population.

More, more, more.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/7/636.short

Multiple linear regression analyses adjusted for standard osteoporosis covariates showed a positive association between animal protein consumption, assessed by food frequency questionnaires in 1988–1992, and BMD, measured 4 years later. This association was statistically significant in women. For every 15-g/day increase in animal protein intake, BMD increased by 0.016 g/cm2 at the hip (p = 0.005), 0.012 g/cm2 at the femoral neck (p = 0.02), 0.015 g/cm2 at the spine (p = 0.08), and 0.010 g/cm2 for the total body (p = 0.04). Conversely, a negative association between vegetable protein and BMD was observed in both sexes.

Animal protein intake was associated with increased bone density. Vegetable protein intake was associated with decreased bone density.

Any further questions?

In paleo times, meat wouldn't have been as plentiful as it is now, it took a lot of effort to hunt and kill something, they wouldn't have hunted for more than they needed, I don't think they would have eaten as much meat as most people do today. And probably ate a a lot more vegetables and fruits, our closest living relatives are fruitarian primates.

Twice wrong: you don't have to think about it; there's data. See e.g. Jared Diamond's analysis of ancient diets. Second, chimpanzees are omnivores:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee#Behavior

I'll deal with your dairy bit later. Though I would like to point out that dairy is banned on paleo diets.

ADDENDUM: All of this yammer about whether a food is acidic or alkaline is nonsense. Do I need to do a towerpost on how the body buffers itself? Spoiler: it's all about bicarbonate. You can probably drink a gallon of lime juice every day without throwing off the pH of your blood.

edit edit edit:

I'd definitely pay attention to how much carbs you are getting and be open to the idea of adding in potatoes and sweet potatoes or even some small servings of white rice.

List of starchy paleo foods: plantain, banana, breadfruit, potato, sweet potato, taro, yam, chestnut. Peas, oats, and white rice are not strictly paleo but mentioned on MDA as acceptable. I personally recommend consuming such foods early in the day:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0039128X11003515 -- this is the infamous cake for breakfast study. The upshot: a high-carbohydrate breakfast prevents weight regain in low-carb dieters.
 
Last edited:
Animal protein intake was associated with increased bone density. Vegetable protein intake was associated with decreased bone density.

And saturated fats, abundant in meats, was found to decrease bone density: link

You can find studies to support just about any theory, so two people could spend all day firing study links at each other and still not come to a consensus if they just don't want to agree with one another.

I don't know a whole lot about complex sugars and starches and what horrible things they might do, but I do know that beans are dense with protein and fibre and that those are two elements of food that we require adequate amounts of on a daily basis.

The reason I advocate the calorie restricted diet above others is because it means I don't have to stress about shit like this. Last night, I felt like having a bowl of brown rice and peas instead of salad with beans so I did, consuming just as many calories as the salad would have had. I feel just as great today as if though I had the salad, and since it's a workout day I'm gonna have a bit of extra protein to make up for last night anyway. No fuss.
 
And saturated fats, abundant in meats, was found to decrease bone density: link

You can find studies to support just about any theory, so two people could spend all day firing study links at each other and still not come to a consensus if they just don't want to agree with one another.

Yes, the "all studies are bullshit" argument. This is obnoxious and wrong; if you pay attention to the methodology, science is generally self-consistent. I was simply pointing out a common myth about protein consumption, not trying to cure osteoporosis with steak. If you'd like to look at the effect of meat consumption on bone density, consider searching for articles treating it as a food rather than measuring its constituents.

And if you don't want to discuss things, why are you posting in this thread?

The reason I advocate the calorie restricted diet above others is because it means I don't have to stress about shit like this. Last night, I felt like having a bowl of brown rice and peas instead of salad with beans so I did, consuming just as many calories as the salad would have had. I feel just as great today as if though I had the salad, and since it's a workout day I'm gonna have a bit of extra protein to make up for last night anyway. No fuss.

I've gone entire days when my primary calorie source was beer. The plural of anecdote is not data.
 
Discussion is exactly why I'm posting to this thread, not to argue and polarize opinions as right or wrong. I did not even suggest studies are bullshit. The point is that even the scientific community cannot reach a consensus on this issue because new studies seem to perpetually contradict prior ones. Furthermore, the consistency of the methodology is irrelevant if we don't fit into that methodology the way that we normally live our lives. I don't see where you're getting at with anecdotes not being data since I did mention in the previous post that I have routinely get blood work done which provides me with sheets of the most accurate data you can even get to figure out whether your diet is good or bad for you.
 
i've just put myself on low carb diet and after 3 days i can only say that i love this. actually i'm just avoiding grains and legumes. it is kind of expensive so i'm not sure how log will it last. i am eating milk cheese fruits and eggs for breakfast. my lunch is apple banana and eggs. for dinner i've been having leafy greens meat and a fruit. I find that i get so much full from one boiled egg than i would do from 2 granola bars. I am enjoying this and although i crave some wheat i have no problem avoiding it.
i like this dietary approach way more than eating low fat. low fat just sucks and keeps you hungry all day long.
 
Top