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Overdose Caused Neurological Damage

I still say that calling this hypothalamic is correct, but only the little picture. It does nothing to explain the sexual symptoms or the the muscle spasms... which ALL (including the thermoregulatory) can have responses mediated by the amygdala.

I believe that your amygdala underwent 'typical' fear-conditioning with the pharmacodynamic effect of the MDMA/meth as it's unconditined stimulus. Fear-conditioning doesn't mean you were scared, it means that the drugs were 'recognized' as an aversive stimulus, and activated the unlearned responses mediated by its innervation of the hypothalamus (including your medial/lateral preoptic nuclei - thermoreg and sweating), the reticular nucleus (for the myoclonic spasms), and the periaqueductal grey (for the sexual stuff). It takes only a single event (conceptually comparable to allergenic sensitization, but physiologically completely different).

The only areas which are activated by the amydala's response bear close relation to your symptoms. The fact that this response to drugs which you had previous exposure without any symptoms implies that this response was 'learned' (learned having no cognitive connotation) and not something due to some pre-existing condition.

I also believe that you are wasting your time trying to figure out the problem with the amount of information you have at hand. Your only way to get any relevant data is to precipitate an attack and get some fMRI data. Otherwise no doctor is going to commit to a diagnosis (and as a result, any treatment).
 
leungkachong ...you obviously sound like you know what ure talking about so I will mention your views to my neurologist and autonomic specialist.

You are correct in saying that "It does nothing to explain the sexual symptoms or the the muscle spasms" as those are the three (sex, arousal and temperature) issues that still remain a mystery. As for the rest they have luckly been identified as a part of autonomic neuropathy also known as autonomic failure under the general name of dysautonomia.

Although temperature, sex and arousal are somewhat effected in people with dysautonomia, it is nowhere as severe or match the symptoms of what im experiencing but i can't deny some sort of a connection to it.

From what I understand the amydala processes emotional reactions so there fore are you suggesting that perhaps my symptoms are an emotional reaction rather than physiological? Which symptoms in particular do you suggest are a direct response from the amydala?

Was my allergic reaction to drugs unlike a peanut allergy? and if so was this response generating from the amydala just the a response to drugs that I was using at the time or can it also be effecting my daily symptoms for the past 7 years?
Im asking these in an attempt to understand your views.

Just to clarify and simplfy what hapened in the order it occured:

1st - the overdose/serotonin syndrome which occured only once during sex (includes the severe reactions described in my post), prior to this I was using drugs for about 10 year and every experience had been amazingly pleasant.

2nd- followed by the sensitivity/allergic reaction upon next attempt to take drugs (not as severe as the 1st point mentioned but there was symptoms of overheating and feeling unwell from the smallest dose which wasn't even enough to get hi off.)

3rd-developed classical symptoms of dysautonomia along with other unexplained symptoms on the night I took my last pill (a tiny amount) following the 1st and 2nd points above.

4th- have been living with the dysautonomia mentioned in 3rd point for the past 7 years.

If I understand correctly what your saying then I would have to say that when I experience the symptoms I do there are no expectations from my body they just happen even at times I forget that I have symptoms. They have become a cause and effect response to situations, eg. I get aroused i have muscle spasms, I have sex i feel overheated and ill, I reach orgasm then immediately I feel like I stepped into a sauna or so nauseausly overheated that I have to go directly to a cold shower. All these symptoms are worse depending on the time of day, they follow some sort of biorhythm, they are at their worse when I first awake up and at late night which I assume have something to do with hormone levels at diferent times.

Its emberassing to say this but they have also effected ejeculation and things like stamina and duration in uncommon and odd ways which changed and have not been the way they used to be since the day I developed dysautonomia.

I have had an MRI exactly on the brain stem looking for tumuors which dint show any problems but I assume this maybe that MRI wouldnt pic up on any damages to smaller components like the hypothalamus, preoptic area axons or neurons as these areas are minute but the consequences are major. Sort of like damaging a computers circuitry.
 
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I think leunkachong is implying that the one-time meth/MDMA event has conditioned the relevant neural areas to invoke an abnormal "fear response" to activities that are not "fight-or-flight," and that this response was a non-cognitive form of learning conceptually comparable to an immune response to new allergens.

As an analogy, consider sex, drugs, and smoke/fumes the "allergens," and the medial/lateral preoptic nuclei the "immune system."

More importantly, the implication is that this response will need to be duplicated during an MRI scan to convince your practitioners that this is indeed what is happening.

A lot of this is covered on the website in the PM I sent, particularly the A&P of the hypothalamus section. Certain info covers how sex hormone levels induce "hot flashes" in post-menopausal women, as well as cellular changes induced by fear responses.
 
Thanks for clarifying that for me. Now that i understand it a bit more, I find it to be a very interesting point. Has there been other cases as such where the immune system looks at certain biological functions as a threat or allergen or is this a theory? Either ways those views are worth looking into.

The site you've recommended in ure PM is so full of info, Ive read throu some but it will take me sometime to get throught the whole thing. Thanks tobala and leungkachong for all your help.
 
Just was going through google and came across your thread about your thermoregulation disorder... I have a similar problem that was caused from an overdose. Would really like to talk to someone coming from the same background.

If you have aim my sn is: RanmaHalved
If you have msn my sn is: [email protected]
 
I am shpongled said:
I would just chill out and smoke some weed if I were you.
Click to expand...
Great advice!! , why din't I think of that? oh wait, maybe it has something to do with the fact that I mentioned I developed a sensitivty to all chemicals, smoke and drugs.
 
^^^^ In his own "shpongled" way, I'm sure he was just trying to help... :D
 
Yea I guess. okay I apoligise shpongled , I din't mean it with the sarcasm.
Im just on the edge lately, I have 4 days till surgery and I've been told Im a high risk patient and mite face complications as a result of the anesthesia which is known to cause hypotension and toxic responses in people who have my condition dysautonomia.

Ever since the freakin overdose and developing autonomic failure my body has become extremely sensitive to chemicals. Last time I was in hospital I had severe reactions to a kids dose of morphine, the staff there freaked out at my response. I dont trust my body and now I have 4 days till surgery, I feel like Im waiting for a death sentence!
 
^^^ *all exits have been sealed, mwuhahahaha*

thanks for the support and u made me laugh, cheers!
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sending good vibes and a pair of bolt-cutters (for the exit door) your way.

Good luck, bro. :D
 
Have you lost weight since your unfortunate condition? Have you tried having low blood sugar, and seeing weather (or not) that has any influence re: your hyperthermia potential? 100F as a high is not so dire, FYI. Get a temporal FLIR thermometer...it will be the best $35 you ever spent. You get almost instant and highly accurate readings on your temple.

I have a hypothesis that ECT (used sometimes as treatement on drug resistant depression) may help. And (contrary to people's irrational fears), you have very little to risk. They strap you down, and put a cloth in your mouth (so you don't bite your tongue off), and shock your temples with high voltage/low amperage. If I am correct, this will reset your homeostatic mechanism as it relates to an open gate (high level) Ca++ channel opened up near dopameric active channels (substituted seroronin here). I think this is what happened, and that you gapped the two near the focal length of the respective channel clefts. And then the rest was history, and your body tried to protect it self. You need to get those potentials back up there, and I bet ECT would do the trick. Ask your Neurologist about getting a session or so of electro shock therapy.
 
Its quite an unusal suggestion. I have not lost weight if anything I have put on a little bit of weight, because I eating more often than I used to as it seems that the heat my body produces burns off what ever I eat quicker so i get hungry more often.

100F may not be life threatening but its quite an uncomfortable and abnormal temperature to live with and , keep in mind that this is a daily ongoing issue that I have to live with. Feeling hot all the time makes me irratable, I get frustrated and angrier at smaller things quicker because feeling hot is such an uncomfortable and annoying sensation its like Im being strangled or something. Only when I jump under the cold shower or turn on the air conditioner I feel like I can breathe again, its so refreshing.

Buying a temple thermometer was one of the first things I did years ago, Im suprised and impressed u suggested this as well. The thermometer only proved that my temperature was abnormal and everyone else id ever measured including friends and family never cam close to being as high as my temperature.

I'll discuss ure suggestion with my neurologist and let u know how it turns out but it will have to wait after my surgery which is now 3 days away :(
 
I know next to nothing about this, but I recently ran across this patent whilst looking for something else, its basically describes the treatment of thermoregulatory disorders using serotonin agonists and ssris, and if the current problems are caused by serotonin neurotoxicity induced by meth and MDMA then it sort of fits, it is mainly concerned with menopausal hot flushes, but the background to the inventon section is an interesting read.

http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?DB=...016256&DOC=deb46d24db964d05c27b37f4bc751cec93
 
^^^ That an amazing find 8o , with all the searching ive done i havent even come across anything that relevant! Sounds almost too good to be true!

Thanks so much Vector, i will definetly look further into this.
 
What a retarded and misleading article. The research was about methamphetamine, not MDMA, but they make it sound like it's equally applicable. We've known for years that MA causes these problems.

Instead of resurecting the dead, why don't you post this over at Drugs in the Media, where it could be needed.
 
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