Misc Ordered "real kava" or the traditional powdered root, and question about tolerance for daily users

[BourbonMac]

I've heard it's better on the stomach and can be stronger. I've also heard micronized can be stronger, everyone says something different.
I was told specifically by the vendor I use that kava tolerance isn't really a thing, but it's very clear I've gained a tolerance. It's worked every time until the last 2 nights. I took 15g tonight and it's done nothing. At least last night I felt something off 13g or whatever I'd taken, so it's confusing. It seems quite a majority of people don't really experience tolerance and when I search about it, I see more things about "reverse tolerance" which I don't know is a thing. It worked for me the first times just fine, and does for many.

Perhaps strain tolerance is possible. I got Borongu medium grind, was using Loa Waka (still am, just about out).

@AutoTripper maybe you can chime in on this?

 

[AutoTripper]

I've heard it's better on the stomach and can be stronger. I've also heard micronized can be stronger, everyone says something different.
I was told specifically by the vendor I use that kava tolerance isn't really a thing, but it's very clear I've gained a tolerance. It's worked every time until the last 2 nights. I took 15g tonight and it's done nothing. At least last night I felt something off 13g or whatever I'd taken, so it's confusing. It seems quite a majority of people don't really experience tolerance and when I search about it, I see more things about "reverse tolerance" which I don't know is a thing. It worked for me the first times just fine, and does for many.

Perhaps strain tolerance is possible. I got Borongu medium grind, was using Loa Waka (still am, just about out).

@AutoTripper maybe you can chime in on this?

Hi. I really do want to help you crack this kava thing for you.

There is in my intuitive and general view as I've read some sharing from you, a way to go about it.

Fairly precise, like a prescription or an exercise.

Which is irony as kava is besides zero booze ever, so loose, unfixed.


But it's again I've always analogised like getting a car up a hillside.

With kava much as any drug even Acid, it so applies how an underdose is worse than an overdose.

For me sometimes kava feels great immediately depends on me, day time cannabis high that mo etc..

But many times I've not enjoyed it for a while. Building up that day I mean.

Dosage iis everything with Kava, and so is preparation.

I swear nothing makes more warming, psychoactive kava than warm water soaked first 10-15 mins in blender with tsp sunflower lecithin 4 min blend strain.

Bit more washing up but no grease, grime.

That's the best.

And don't bother underdosing.

Noble, under 30 grams will tease & dissapoint.

Good stuff 35 can be ample though. Me in past.

Feeling comfortable inside, digestive wise etc also facilitates a far nicer more effective kava experience
.

I would forget about RT for now, it's only temporary if at all and statistically rare I feel but around.

Will pass quick.

But try my prep advice, use sunflower lecithin even if no blender, traditional knead, still works great but I'm adamant now blended is a layer added.

Use enough. 50 grams well prepped. Over 2 hrs ish. On empty tummy much stronger, like kratom but also more liable for nausea, like kratom lol.


Following with food, meal, warm fatty spicy being optimum for potentiation but anything, bout hr after final dose, boosts effects too (like guess what? Kr..)

I kneaded 70 grams Vanuatan Melomelo a sedating nice one about 6 hrs ago, 9 a.m. now just finished 1st wash it's got me though!

Can do 2nd wash less liquid, even shake in sealed jar tied up with warm water gets real dark strong grog extra.


So it's plain to me. You are greatly underdosing. Kava doesn't work this way.

The car chugs half way up the slope runs out of fuel.

Reach the top, that's where the level ground and view is.

 

[BourbonMac]

Well to me this isn't an underdose, I mean 12-15g was effecting me very, very strongly with great euphoria and a feeling like I was drunk but not with the shitty way alcohol effects me. Everyone is different, that's just what a sweet spot was for me. Maybe some people need a lot more but I generally haven't. I mean the first time, I took only 6g and the effects were incredible and I felt them into the next morning with one of the best afterglows I've ever felt.

I'm instantly regretting getting the medium grind, though. My vendor didn't specify at all that I'd need to strain it. I figure, it's powder, it'll be even easier to dissolve than micronized (which doesn't, really, it's just like drinking goopy mud). So it'd appear like I have to take 40g to feel like I would from 15g of micro.

I would've loved to try this new one tonight but I don't have a strainer bag or cheese cloth. I have no idea how to even strain it if I did have those things. I can look tomorrow for a strainer bag or something, I just feel my vendor should've told me about needing to strain it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

"Reverse tolerance" is a misnomer with kava, as I understand it. Instead it acts as it's own potentiator. There is something in kava that inhibits the enzymes which breaks it down.

So the longer you take it, the more it inhibits it's own elimination, but really has nothing to do with tolerance.

That and the fact that some of the actives have quite long half lives.

 

[BourbonMac]

I've read more about how to strain it and all, how I could use a T-shirt, paper towels etc. But my ADHD brain makes it sound like this is a long and way too complicated process and I'm kind of having a severe overload looking up the information for this. I'm also just not patient enough to spend 30 minutes trying to prepare it when with micronized (which the vendor claims is 3x stronger than medium) is much quicker to get down. it seems that most people tend to find micro stronger so basically I wasted like $50 on a product I'm probably not really going to use until my brain can calm down. I need a genuine ELI5 on this because I'm too overwhelmed by this and other things going on in general to really have a clue what the easiest and fastest way is. I've seen many posts about people not straining and being fine but that seems to be a minority.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Eh it's not all that complicated man, I used blender method with a T shirt to strain.

It always gave me stomach issues... but then again, so did instant micronized kava.

I think kava heads obsess too much over the particulars.

Just throw your dose in a blender with some luke warm water and a dash of milk, blend for 1 min, then strain through a t shirt. It'll work but definitely not the best method.

 

[JackARoe]

"Reverse tolerance" is a misnomer with kava, as I understand it. Instead it acts as it's own potentiator. There is something in kava that inhibits the enzymes which breaks it down.

So the longer you take it, the more it inhibits it's own elimination, but really has nothing to do with tolerance.

That and the fact that some of the actives have quite long half lives.

Fascinating. My wife has sipped Kava all day everyday for the last 10 years. She had to give up alcohol (before I split) and she did. Honestly she has so many health issues she would be dead if she kept drinking like she did. But she took to kava. I have never seen anyone sip it. When I indulge I do it the traditional way. Scrunch my face and slam a full mug of it. Do that again in 20 minutes.

I have to say I had one night I had come home from work full of anxiety and thoughts that kept me rigid and consumed. Slammed some good kave and within 15 minutes all the stress drained and it really was blissful. The calmness washed over me and just sat staring and feeling great.

I told my wife today I have never seen anyone drink kava everyday. She does take a month off every now and then and I do not notice withdrawal although I suggest to her to take some gabapentin and she does. Have a benzo on hand but not sure kava can cause such withdrawals. We for sure need to know more.

Mac if Real Kava is Real Kava I used it for 20 years. I will say though during covid we got a weak batch and I suspect the stock was older. But when these places sell a lot of kava it is fresh a lot of the time.

 

[BourbonMac]

Apparently kava withdrawals aren't really a thing, people have used it for decades and CT'd it or just took a break and were fine, it's unusual.
I want to get this refunded though I opened the top seal. The vendor does take refunds but it's not specified if this is bad or not. I mean, how would someone just get a bag and not open it at all before they realize they don't want it?

In any case that's $40 down the drain and I'm already not financially that well, I wish the vendor would've at least had the courtesy to give a strainer bag with it, because others seem to. I'm just going to use micronized from now on. They never mentioned having to strain it either. It's in some section of the website but like, when I asked about it they didn't mention this at all. Think that would've been a good thing to tell me while I was asking about it and if it was easier on the stomach? Micro is fine with me now that I'm used to it.

 

[JackARoe]

Yeah , I never return natural products because it could be subjective. Stale kava is useless. I have some batches of kratom from a few years ago that were sub par. They work. But I didn't want to return. But you can try if the vendor does take returns. Tell him the bag was ripped open or something.

 

[BourbonMac]

That would've been a good excuse but unfortunately, I'm way too honest and told them I'd opened the bag to see what it looked like. Honestly bites me in the ass sometimes. I guess I'll finish off my micronized and just stop for a little bit. I have a feeling it was making me constipated. I'd made some reddit posts about it but the majority of people were like no way, that's not a thing, it's fiber.

Initially the vendor I was DM'ing was friendly and all but then they suddenly ghosted me once I seemed to grow skeptical about things like tolerance, so I don't think they would've taken it back anyway. Yeah it mentions straining on the site in a completely different area but it should also tell you on the product page itself. For the micronized, they do put all the info right in front of you before you even make a selection. For non, it only shows you the products.

I don't think people understand that too much fiber can make you constipated, nothing about my diet changed and I drink tons of water. There'd always be some people who'd say yeah it does that to me too, but their comments would end up removed or my entire post. Subreddits for substances like kratom and kava are very iffy, you can't say the wrong words, or your posts will vanish. You can't even mention any substance other than kava there.

Anywho, I regret buying the medium grind. Maybe I'll try it one day but I can't be bothered to spend 30 minutes trying to prepare it and doing all this stuff just for something that according to that website is much less potent than micro.

 

[Jabberwocky]

What kind of kava dealers are you talking to bro? The best kava I've had was ordered off Amazon via a reputable dealer. Shit's openly legal moreso than kratom. Kratom is not sold on Amazon like kava is.

I highly suggest buying stuff from dealers mentioned on the kava reddit list.

 

[BourbonMac]

Possibly the same ones you got, as I also see them on Amazon.
It's not that this vendor isn't reputable, they're one of the most reputable on the web. But they could've done a better job with giving you info on the medium grind right up front like they did with the micro. Because micronized is already lumpy as is I figured the meaning of medium grind = grinded up even moreso to be a thin powder, but I couldn't have been more wrong. Guess I had to make that mistake at least once though to know what's best.

 

[Jabberwocky]

To my knowledge medium grind and micronized are two totally different products. Micronized is supposed to contain no root material. Medium grind is just medium grind size which contains root.... root material is the entire reason you're supposed to strain kava, it produces side effects and liver toxicity.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah, that much I'm aware of by now I've only had micro from this one source which also calls it instant, but it sure as hell isn't. You put it into a drink and you have to stir that shit for like 10 minutes and it needs to be hot milk or something, so maybe I should look into another vendor. That, or it's only instant at the lowest recommended dose which would make sense, though I basically did just that my first time and it was still pretty lumpy. I don't know if there really is a true instant that's so light and thin that it's like pouring salt into a drink.

 

[BourbonMac]

So I took just 10g tonight and it worked fine, so I'm pretty confused. I did start taking Gotu Kola but I doubt that's related. Gotta say that stuff is great for mood though.

 

[BourbonMac]

Hi. I really do want to help you crack this kava thing for you.

There is in my intuitive and general view as I've read some sharing from you, a way to go about it.

Fairly precise, like a prescription or an exercise.

Which is irony as kava is besides zero booze ever, so loose, unfixed.


But it's again I've always analogised like getting a car up a hillside.

With kava much as any drug even Acid, it so applies how an underdose is worse than an overdose.

For me sometimes kava feels great immediately depends on me, day time cannabis high that mo etc..

But many times I've not enjoyed it for a while. Building up that day I mean.

Dosage iis everything with Kava, and so is preparation.

I swear nothing makes more warming, psychoactive kava than warm water soaked first 10-15 mins in blender with tsp sunflower lecithin 4 min blend strain.

Bit more washing up but no grease, grime.

That's the best.

And don't bother underdosing.

Noble, under 30 grams will tease & dissapoint.

Good stuff 35 can be ample though. Me in past.

Feeling comfortable inside, digestive wise etc also facilitates a far nicer more effective kava experience
.

I would forget about RT for now, it's only temporary if at all and statistically rare I feel but around.

Will pass quick.

But try my prep advice, use sunflower lecithin even if no blender, traditional knead, still works great but I'm adamant now blended is a layer added.

Use enough. 50 grams well prepped. Over 2 hrs ish. On empty tummy much stronger, like kratom but also more liable for nausea, like kratom lol.


Following with food, meal, warm fatty spicy being optimum for potentiation but anything, bout hr after final dose, boosts effects too (like guess what? Kr..)

I kneaded 70 grams Vanuatan Melomelo a sedating nice one about 6 hrs ago, 9 a.m. now just finished 1st wash it's got me though!

Can do 2nd wash less liquid, even shake in sealed jar tied up with warm water gets real dark strong grog extra.


So it's plain to me. You are greatly underdosing. Kava doesn't work this way.

The car chugs half way up the slope runs out of fuel.

Reach the top, that's where the level ground and view is.

So I got in AluBall in the mail recently and did traditional prep for my first time last night. I was a little underwhelmed given how much stronger the extract was, sometimes it was so euphoric it felt like MDMA (happened the other night but I think I accidentally took 7g or something, but one night 6 didn't do much so it seems it's all very hit or miss) but then 20 minutes later sedating. Other times it didn't do much, like last night when I started by finishing 3.5g of the extract (waaaaay over the recommended dose, but it's weaker than the vendor claims it is).

Kava in general seems like a drug that is very, very hit or miss and can give different effects at any time. I used 35g, I would probably need closer to 50g to feel really nice but it was sedating and noticeable for sure. It's a top notch vendor so it's not bad stuff. Supposedly the AluBall has a weaker feeling to it but many say it's hardly noticeable or that they don't notice a difference.

The extract I hadn't really felt anything which is when I decided to just try the traditional prep. Problem is you need 2 AluBalls to really strain 40g at once because one can only fit about 20 grams. They're freaking $30 though, for a bottle and a ball strainer. I just wanted to buy one and see where that took me. It wasn't hard to clean out, dry off and strain more again but that's still more work than needed, though far less than a traditional strain. After the first wash people tend to suggest a 2nd just to get any remaining kavalactones, it tastes like crap by that point. The original wash tastes pretty good to me.

Overall I've been more impressed with the extract thus far, though the vendor who gave this to me shorted me a whopping 20 grams out of 2 ounces. He offered to put an extra ounce in a bag if I ordered 2oz again. Yeah, if you don't fuck it up again... That was a pretty massive mistake given it costs $60 for 2 ounces and nearly an ounce was missing. I'd wanted a partial refund but they said it wouldn't be possible which is when he offered another ounce if I pursue extract again. This same vendor also sells regular kava.

This was only my first time doing traditional prep. It looks like I'll probably have to invest in a 2nd ball at some point to speed things up. It does work at the very least, but I feel like I've got some kind of tolerance building. Just about anyone on reddit or elsewhere believes kava cannot possibly build a tolerance though and I don't think that makes any sense. What drug doesn't build tolerance?

 

[somnilicious]

It does somewhat kind of build a small tolerance but even a short break of a day or two will correct it. It never fully builds a full tolerance as in you'll always be able to get something out of it but it can be very hit or miss. One night a dose might barely be felt and the next night that dose might feel amazing. Gut mobility, stomach content and mood has a lot to do with it. Switching up strains or varieties does help as your getting different kavalatones.

 

[BourbonMac]

Yeah I always make sure to take it 6 hours after eating. Aren't kavalactones all the same though and it's other levels of alkaloids? At least that's what I thought.
But yeah I would think real tolerance is a thing, but it's hard to say. One night when I was taking micronized, I did 22g and barely felt it. The next night I took 10g and it was really strong, and AutoTripper considered this to be a pretty big underdose. Even with the extract, 3.5g would work great one night, be sedating and relaxing, miss the next, then be extremely uppity the next.

But go over to the kava subreddit and you'll be met with all this talk about reverse tolerance (this isn't a thing) and the fact that kava is pharmacologically impossible to build a tolerance to, as in the more you take it, the less you need. It's really strange, I mean that sub isn't as bad as the kratom sub where they weed out any posts about negative effects and will ban you for even saying it gives you a buzz because it's "just like coffee" but still. No tolerance? I really doubt that.

I'll say one think though, it's definitely a diuretic. I woke up and I'd pissed myself this morning. I haven't done that in over 20 years, not even piss ass drunk. But I guess the fact that I'm drinking the kava in water means I'm also just consuming more water. I'd assume this isn't exactly hydrating, I have a pretty bad headache today.

 

[BourbonMac]

Hi. I really do want to help you crack this kava thing for you.

There is in my intuitive and general view as I've read some sharing from you, a way to go about it.

Fairly precise, like a prescription or an exercise.

Which is irony as kava is besides zero booze ever, so loose, unfixed.


But it's again I've always analogised like getting a car up a hillside.

With kava much as any drug even Acid, it so applies how an underdose is worse than an overdose.

For me sometimes kava feels great immediately depends on me, day time cannabis high that mo etc..

But many times I've not enjoyed it for a while. Building up that day I mean.

Dosage iis everything with Kava, and so is preparation.

I swear nothing makes more warming, psychoactive kava than warm water soaked first 10-15 mins in blender with tsp sunflower lecithin 4 min blend strain.

Bit more washing up but no grease, grime.

That's the best.

And don't bother underdosing.

Noble, under 30 grams will tease & dissapoint.

Good stuff 35 can be ample though. Me in past.

Feeling comfortable inside, digestive wise etc also facilitates a far nicer more effective kava experience
.

I would forget about RT for now, it's only temporary if at all and statistically rare I feel but around.

Will pass quick.

But try my prep advice, use sunflower lecithin even if no blender, traditional knead, still works great but I'm adamant now blended is a layer added.

Use enough. 50 grams well prepped. Over 2 hrs ish. On empty tummy much stronger, like kratom but also more liable for nausea, like kratom lol.


Following with food, meal, warm fatty spicy being optimum for potentiation but anything, bout hr after final dose, boosts effects too (like guess what? Kr..)

I kneaded 70 grams Vanuatan Melomelo a sedating nice one about 6 hrs ago, 9 a.m. now just finished 1st wash it's got me though!

Can do 2nd wash less liquid, even shake in sealed jar tied up with warm water gets real dark strong grog extra.


So it's plain to me. You are greatly underdosing. Kava doesn't work this way.

The car chugs half way up the slope runs out of fuel.

Reach the top, that's where the level ground and view is.

So I went ahead and just took 60 grams, I barely really feel anything. I had a nice body buzz going for awhile but at this high a dose I expected to be fucked up, but not at all. It must be a bad batch I guess, fasted and all that. Pretty disappointing not gonna lie. This vendor hasn't impressed me so far and I might have to try another one. Until then, I ordered more extract.