extropy
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2018
- Messages
- 184
I'm still trying to understand this so bear with me...
So best current theories say consciousness takes place through neural spikes in the brain. i understand this isn't concrete as we don't know why or how yet, and that this is not a full explanation. but Penrose and Hameroff suggest consciousness is quantum in nature, and takes place at the level of the microtubules within the brain.
Scientists will conduct a very similar experiment to the one that showed plant photosynthesis utilises quantum superposition, and will apply this technique to the tubulin within the brain - looking for superposition. in fact it will be done by the same guy that did those experiments.
Now with Hameroff being an expert in anesthesia, he has used his understanding to create a testable prediction....
So, if they demonstrate that superposition happens within the tubulin, and it doesn't go away when anesthesia is introduced, the theory will be proven wrong - the quantum behaviour of the microtubules will still be doing their thing, but consciousness would not be there (in the brain), therefore the quantum behaviour cannot be responsible for consciousness.
But, if superposition does go away with anesthesia, they will have further evidence for their theory, as it shows consciousness is clearly correlated with the quantum properties of the brain.
(Edit: I should say at this point Penrose has a whole mathematical theory on how the wave function collapses but i'm not going into that here.(it's the OR - Orchestrated Reduction part.), I'm just stating what the experiment is here).
I tried to explain that best i could, which was rubbish i'm sure, so for further clarification by the main man, here is a vid of Hameroff explaining this.
By the end of the year we will know for sure whether ORCH OR holds up, its quite exciting!
Max Tegmark is always hot on the heels of these guys though so it will be interesting to see what he says. he keeps having to push his mathematical theories that attempt to debunk quantum consciousness back and back. to begin with he claimed the brain is too warm for quantum coherence to take place (he had 'math' to prove this). but, since warm coherence was shown in plant photosynthesis he's had to revise his objections. ORCH OR still stands as reasonable.
i don't know if my money is on ORCH OR theory, but i do believe consciousness has quantum functioning of some sort due to the overwhelming evidence for PSI. but that's a whooooole 'nother discussion haha.
so I'm not particularly aiming to defend this position, i just thought it's an interesting topic!
So best current theories say consciousness takes place through neural spikes in the brain. i understand this isn't concrete as we don't know why or how yet, and that this is not a full explanation. but Penrose and Hameroff suggest consciousness is quantum in nature, and takes place at the level of the microtubules within the brain.
Scientists will conduct a very similar experiment to the one that showed plant photosynthesis utilises quantum superposition, and will apply this technique to the tubulin within the brain - looking for superposition. in fact it will be done by the same guy that did those experiments.
Now with Hameroff being an expert in anesthesia, he has used his understanding to create a testable prediction....
So, if they demonstrate that superposition happens within the tubulin, and it doesn't go away when anesthesia is introduced, the theory will be proven wrong - the quantum behaviour of the microtubules will still be doing their thing, but consciousness would not be there (in the brain), therefore the quantum behaviour cannot be responsible for consciousness.
But, if superposition does go away with anesthesia, they will have further evidence for their theory, as it shows consciousness is clearly correlated with the quantum properties of the brain.
(Edit: I should say at this point Penrose has a whole mathematical theory on how the wave function collapses but i'm not going into that here.(it's the OR - Orchestrated Reduction part.), I'm just stating what the experiment is here).
I tried to explain that best i could, which was rubbish i'm sure, so for further clarification by the main man, here is a vid of Hameroff explaining this.
By the end of the year we will know for sure whether ORCH OR holds up, its quite exciting!
Max Tegmark is always hot on the heels of these guys though so it will be interesting to see what he says. he keeps having to push his mathematical theories that attempt to debunk quantum consciousness back and back. to begin with he claimed the brain is too warm for quantum coherence to take place (he had 'math' to prove this). but, since warm coherence was shown in plant photosynthesis he's had to revise his objections. ORCH OR still stands as reasonable.
i don't know if my money is on ORCH OR theory, but i do believe consciousness has quantum functioning of some sort due to the overwhelming evidence for PSI. but that's a whooooole 'nother discussion haha.
so I'm not particularly aiming to defend this position, i just thought it's an interesting topic!
- Stuart Hameroffthe brain is more like a quantum orchestra and consciousness in some sense is like the music
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